Raiden IV 360 US-Bound...

[kid aphex]

shmup companies realize they can milk us---simple as that, right?
xbla hasnt made fans think shmups should cost less.
developers who chose to put their shmups on xbla realize that the marketplace [up until now] has been $15 and under.
they realize they'll make less per item...but reach a larger audience. its a fair trade off.

thats why i appreciated the RFAces release---fairly priced.
this is a bit ridiculous---but it is my poison. what can i say? they got me(us)

[kid aphex]

and the IGN review,
their scores mean very little to me, because they are relative to the masses.
of course you and i are going to disagree, we love shmups.
but taking a step back, and into the shoes of your average gamer, their score seems very fair. especially in the breakdown.

[Malc74]

but taking a step back, and into the shoes of your average gamer, their score seems very fair. especially in the breakdown.

I think it's the general lack of interest from the reviewers that annoys me a little. You can pretty much tell that they're not even trying.
Most mainstream shmup reviews of the past few years have tended to fall into the "Oh look! A shmup! How quaint!" trap, followed by "it's alright if you like this sort of thing. 6/10."

I just think it'd be nice to see a shmup reviewed by someone who has enough interest in the genre to check who actually published Raiden Fighters Aces.

[Chacranajxy]

I do think the pricing for this game is fucking retarded considering that it's a domestic release, but yeah, IGN's review went a bit overboard on complaining about it.

What's fucking retarded about it? The only stupid thing about it is the nickel and dime shit for the extra ships. $40 is a totally reasonable price for the game.

Because Raiden IV is twice as much as pretty much any other domestic shmup release that's come out in the last few years. It's like UFO doesn't want the game to sell to anyone but the shmup devotees. And yeah, the DLC is kinda ridiculous. Granted, I bought it because I really like the game, but it's pretty unreasonable to be charging this much and still leaving something like that out.

It'll be interesting to see the sales charts for this.

[Malc74]

It'll be interesting to see the sales charts for this.

Without meaning to sound too facetious, I don't think the published sales charts will go that low.

[neist]

It'll be interesting to see the sales charts for this.

Without meaning to sound too facetious, I don't think the published sales charts will go that low.

Wonder if anyone that wanders around here has access to the full list? Have to be part of a fairly large media outlet to have access to them, usually. They cost quite a bit.

Of course they couldn't tell us specifically the numbers, but broad numbers are usually okay.

[honorless]

This gun is one of the high points of Raiden IV.

LOL what? That's a little like me reviewing a racing game and raving about "a particularly cool car with a paint job that wraps around the body like a crazed purple boa constrictor. [...] This car is one of the highlights of Gran Turismo."

I think that one screenshot caption makes this the most laughable shooter review I've ever read.

I'll agree with him about the DLC though. I know, I know—you don't need to buy it to enjoy the game, it was the same way for the JP release, etc etc. Charging for unlock keys still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Chacranajxy]

I freelance for a few places, some big and some not so much, and people aren't too terribly willing to share NPD shit, outside of the top 10 sales and all that nonsense. While less accurate, VGChartz should have something on first week sales pretty soon.

[Rob]

xbla hasnt made anyone think shmups should cost less.

Er. Read yours and Chacranajxy's posts. You're both aghast that they're treating it like something greater than XBLA retro-impulse buy trash. I'd expect people at shmups.com to get the value of the genre. Sad.

[TodayIsForgotten]

I think XBLA has conditioned some people to think shooters are only worth $10 (MAX!). I don't remember this much talk about the price in bad reviews of yore.

It definitely has and it is depressing. I don't know how people suddenly think that Digital Download games are worth so little. Hell, if they wanted to they could make DD games 40 gigs. Would people then complain when they are worth $100? I think the real problem with XBLA is that there are so many non-arcade games on there, that when people see a puzzle game for 20 bucks or a 2 gig game, they flip out.

Now the big thing on XBLA is to make games that are worth 5 or 10 and sell them for 15 or 20. Things are getting ridiculous.

shmup companies realize they can milk us---simple as that, right?
xbla hasnt made anyone think shmups should cost less.
developers who chose to put their shmups on xbla realize that the marketplace [up until now] has been $15 and under.
they realize they'll make less per item...but reach a larger audience. its a fair trade off.

thats why i appreciated the RFAces release---fairly priced.
this is a bit ridiculous---but it is my poison. what can i say? they got me(us)

Check out the R-type Dimension forums. They bicker over 1200 for 2 games with remade graphics.

[Malc74]

The predictably depressing IGN review has been phoned in.
And in a quite remarkable feat manages to make a factual error in the very first fucking sentence.

I guess someone at IGN reads the forums - they've removed the error in the opening sentence.

[BIL]

Brilliant! Maybe they should read the forums a bit more to learn how to not write shitty shooter reviews.

[Chacranajxy]

xbla hasnt made anyone think shmups should cost less.

Er. Read yours and Chacranajxy's posts. You're both aghast that they're treating it like something greater than XBLA retro-impulse buy trash. I'd expect people at shmups.com to get the value of the genre. Sad.

Yeah, that's totally what's going on here.

[chempop]

The DLC is a good thing! The reason why it exists isn't just to milk another $2 or whatever the cost is, it is so more people can find out about this game. Don't you want the genre to grow? I can't believe how petty and stubborn some of you are getting over this, it you want to boycott the DLC then fine, go play something else and STFU.

[Malc74]

The DLC is a good thing! The reason why it exists isn't just to milk another $2 or whatever the cost is, it is so more people can find out about this game. Don't you want the genre to grow? I can't believe how petty and stubborn some of you are getting over this, it you want to boycott the DLC then fine, go play something else and STFU.

This is one of those posts where I have no idea if the person is being completely sarcastic or not...

You'll have to forgive me for asking here, but how exactly does DLC enable more people to find out about the game?

[monkeyman]

While I think the IGN review missed the point somewhat - their complaint that you basically play the exact same levels twice and beet the true last boss just to get a crappy cut scene being a highlight - I would agree that the DLC ships is a little bit like a slap in the face and does seem to be abusing the good nature of the fans who are often willing to fork out for multiple copies of a game to show support. (since I'm in the UK and we're never likely to get a release I guess I shouldn't worry about that too much however)

That said if you see any of the videos posted on IGN you'll see exactly how much time they spent learning to play. If you can't be bothered watching I'll give you a rundown:

Bomb - Bomb - Bomb - Die -Die - Bomb - Bomb - Die - Continue? Yes - Bomb - Die -Die -Bomb - Bomb - Die - Continue etc....

[Battlesmurf]

Motherfuckers.

I hate the 'hate wagon'. If a game gets reviewed poorly- people talk shit "haha- I feel sorry for anybody who purchases it". I'm amazed at the amount of people on the IGN boards that are ridiculing the graphics. Even for a retail release I don't think they are inferior.

Wish I had an account at IGN- I'd feel better if I left a blurb or something there.

[Acid King]

Because Raiden IV is twice as much as pretty much any other domestic shmup release that's come out in the last few years. It's like UFO doesn't want the game to sell to anyone but the shmup devotees. And yeah, the DLC is kinda ridiculous. Granted, I bought it because I really like the game, but it's pretty unreasonable to be charging this much and still leaving something like that out.

That's because it's a new game. The port was only released in Japan a year ago. Every domestic shooter release the past few years has been A) Downloadable versions of old games or B) Compilations of games that are 10+ years old. Thats why it's double the price. The only recent game that was released so cheap while being fairly recent (and people STILL bitched about the price) was Triggerheart Exelica, and the reason for that was the only prior console release was on Dreamcast, and the 360 version was released in all regions. Ikaruga was released on the Gamecube at $40 if I remember correctly. Raiden 3 was $30. Shikigami 3 for Wii was $30. Gradius V was $30 or $40. I can't even think of a current port that's been brought to the states on a current gen system beside Raiden IV and Shiki 3, so I don't know where you're taking your comparative prices from unless it's XBLA, but most of the ports and shooters released domestically during the last gen weren't budget games.

[jefflev13]

$40 US is a reasonable price. 6.5 IGN score is reasonable (even if I don't agree with some of their reasons for the score). It's an average game, but I'm still glad (and amazed) it made it over here. One could guess at the sales by looking at the leaderboards. I hope UFO will be able to keep bringing shmups over (though now that I finally have a j360, I don't imagine I'll have the patience to wait). I hope they've learned that charging $2 for extra ships, that should have been included, makes a bad impression & doesn't generate enough cash to make up for the bad will.

[BIL]

That said if you see any of the videos posted on IGN you'll see exactly how much time they spent learning to play. If you can't be bothered watching I'll give you a rundown:

Bomb - Bomb - Bomb - Die -Die - Bomb - Bomb - Die - Continue? Yes - Bomb - Die -Die -Bomb - Bomb - Die - Continue etc....

Looks like he could get a good fifty hours' "content" out of developing the basic skills to not get fisted. Perhaps then he could spend another dozen working on a decent score. Oh wait, that's not game content or skill development, that's rote pattern memorisation.

Oh well. I'm reminded of this good post. Still disappointing to see this same form letter-esque review continually pop up on mainstream sites.

[Acid King]

The 1up.com review, though not particularly insightful, gave a decent score and didn't bitch about the price. Kudos to them.

[undamned]

Earlier this year, the 360 received a collection of three Raiden games at the budget price of just $19.99. The Raiden revival continues with Raiden IV, out now for Xbox 360, though instead of three games you get just one, and you have to pay twice as much. This one isn't exactly a deal.

Dude, seriously? To bring things into reality, what was said was as ludacris as this:

"Earlier this year, the PS2 received a collection of 20 classic Capcom arcade games at the budget price of just $19.99. The Capcom legacy continues with Devil may Cry 3, out now for PS2, though instead of 20 games you get just one, and you have to pay twice as much. This one isn't exactly a deal."
-ud

[kozo]

Every day is April Fool's Day at IGN. That place is a joke.

[nZero]

To bring things into reality, what was said was as ludacris as this:

[professor ganson]

The 1up.com review, though not particularly insightful, gave a decent score and didn't bitch about the price. Kudos to them.

Yeah, that's nice to see, and the review was decent. I read it quickly-- was it saying that the purple shot is useful? I've never been able to make any use of that weapon in any Raiden game.

[BulletMagnet]

I read it quickly-- was it saying that the purple shot is useful? I've never been able to make any use of that weapon in any Raiden game.

I find it to be a good all-purpose "recovery" weapon after having just died and powered down, though since Raiden III and IV are more generous powerup-wise than their predecessors it's not as much of a factor there.

[Chacranajxy]

Because Raiden IV is twice as much as pretty much any other domestic shmup release that's come out in the last few years. It's like UFO doesn't want the game to sell to anyone but the shmup devotees. And yeah, the DLC is kinda ridiculous. Granted, I bought it because I really like the game, but it's pretty unreasonable to be charging this much and still leaving something like that out.

That's because it's a new game. The port was only released in Japan a year ago. Every domestic shooter release the past few years has been A) Downloadable versions of old games or B) Compilations of games that are 10+ years old. Thats why it's double the price. The only recent game that was released so cheap while being fairly recent (and people STILL bitched about the price) was Triggerheart Exelica, and the reason for that was the only prior console release was on Dreamcast, and the 360 version was released in all regions. Ikaruga was released on the Gamecube at $40 if I remember correctly. Raiden 3 was $30. Shikigami 3 for Wii was $30. Gradius V was $30 or $40. I can't even think of a current port that's been brought to the states on a current gen system beside Raiden IV and Shiki 3, so I don't know where you're taking your comparative prices from unless it's XBLA, but most of the ports and shooters released domestically during the last gen weren't budget games.

Okay, so the Milestone Collection? The upcoming release of Illvelo? And while crappy, there's stuff like Omega 5 and Soldner-X getting cheap releases on downloadable services. While it's true that last gen's shmups weren't budget releases, they absolutely are now.

And I mean, it's not like I'm boycotting the game - I bought it and the DLC already. But I do think it's a stupid business decision and it's guaranteed to make the sales of this game as bad as they possibly can be.

[agustusx]

Regarding content already on the disc, I think SFIV costumes were even worse. The costumes are on disc, and they sold a new set each week. Then in the end they came out with a single download that unlocked all the costumes and saved you a good bit of money. This is the new games business. Look at how EA sells time saver unlocks for games like Tiger Woods and Burnout. I don't like it, but it's not worth returning a game over.

I guess one of the challenges we have is getting reviewers and gamers to understand the difference in a budget shooter and a top notch title. If you don't care about the genre you couldn't possible tell the difference from 1942 Joint Strike and Mushihimesama Futari. Personally I don't think the budget releases, that were intended exclusively for console/download markets rival the games that had arcade releases. Even if the mainstream assumes that shooters are only worth $10, I have supported the only two retail shooter releases in the US for the 360.

I'm going to get some raiden iv on so I can join the bottom tenth of the scoreboards.

[Rob]

It's an average game

It's not remotely average for the genre or in general. As a bonus, the port is slick and has nice extras.

[adversity1]

If you don't care about the genre you couldn't possible tell the difference from 1942 Joint Strike and Mushihimesama Futari.

I disagree with that.

There are major design differences between the two, and Futari is incredibly eye-catching, especially in its high-res incarnation.