Bad levels in good games

alpha5099 · Post by **alpha5099** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:45 am

This was inspired by the discussion of Bio Hazard Battle, and it's dull first level. What are some other games that have a level -- or levels -- that just don't live up to the rest of the games?

Alternately, what're some games that you think would be good, if only they had nixed a specific level?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:52 am

Would better've been inspired by the Robo Aleste topic. First levels suck as a rule, don't they? BHB's isn't much of a full level. I like it, being dropped from the ship, going through the clouds before the first real level. Nice song, not a lack of enemies, you get powered-up, not bad.

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:55 am

Malc really seemed to hate the first level of Battle Bakraid... I didn't think it was that bad, but it's not that great either.

I really don't like the last level of R-Type. It's just... dull. I love the rest of the game though.

visuatrox · Post by **visuatrox** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:18 am

R-Type Final would be a much better game if they had removed the large battle ship level (third level I think).

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:52 am

Aero Blasters would be a lot better without the two stages that have inertia in them. Or even better if the stages, which are as good as the rest of the game, were still there, but simply without the inertia.

adam76 · Post by **adam76** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:27 am

^^^^

I've got to second that. My mate and i were playing Aero Blasters just yesterday and although its one of our fave shooters, that 4th level scuppers(for me anyway) any hope of 1cc'ing it.

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:41 am

That one in Trizeal that's sort of bland and slow... Oh wait.

WarpZone · Post by **WarpZone** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:41 am

R-Type III's inconsistent level quality is pretty frustrating.

On one hand, you've got some sections that pace their ideas very well and gradually add complexity until the end of the stage, making strong use of the core mechanic- like stages 2, 3, and some of 5.

But then you've got the boring first stage which just drags on and on as it shows off mode7 effects but with little actual enemy development- and awkward pauses between set-pieces. Stage 4 can also be considered a disaster because of its cheap lava-flow section which forces inch-by-inch memorization instead of clever force usage.

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:39 am

Like Rob mentioned, almost every first level sucks.

In Sexy Parodius for example, this stage is boring my to death.
I am so bored in the first stage, that I don't concentrate on the game at all and sometimes I die because of that. I still can't understand why only this level has no real mission to accomplish.

In my opinion, first levels should be easy to get through but challenging to master. I like the first stage in Giga Wing (Well that actually depends on your ship but anyway).

And I also hate absolute "claustrophobia" (written like that?) levels. Like the Rock Stage (Hades?) in Thunderforce 3 or the machine stage (lvl. 6) in R-Type.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:50 pm

To continue the hate on 1st levels: Shikigami no Shiro II's first stage is a complete bore. Things pick up a bit in 1-2, but 1-1 has one of the worst bosses I've seen in some time. Otherwise this game is one of the best on the planet (I just wish it weren't quite so hard in the later levels).
incredible game, bad level

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:54 pm

It seems weird that first levels would always be the worst. Wouldn't the game designer want to hook you in with an awesome first couple of levels to get you playing? Especially in games released for arcades.

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:43 pm

visuatrox wrote:R-Type Final would be a much better game if they had removed the large battle ship level (third level I think).

Really? Thats one of the best levels in the game to me. I didn't care for levels 1, 2 and 4...they were a little lack luster to me...3, 5, 6, and 7 blew me away!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:24 pm

Andi wrote:It seems weird that first levels would always be the worst. Wouldn't the game designer want to hook you in with an awesome first couple of levels to get you playing? Especially in games released for arcades.

To compensate they usually have the best music track and/or graphics for the first stage. At least seems that way in older shooters.

To continue the hate on 1st levels: Shikigami no Shiro II's first stage is a complete bore.

Playing for score?

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:07 pm

Probably get flamed for ten pages, but I never liked the 3rd stage of Dodonpachi. It just doesn't seem to sit well with the rest of the game (especially the first half of the level) blowing up those sodding star balloons and its stop/start chaining throughout.

OK, things pick up at the big red spaceship and the boss is good fun, but I still feel it ruins a bit of the game's flow.

SheSaidDutch · Post by **SheSaidDutch** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:17 pm

Gradius 2-First Level

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:31 pm

Andi wrote:It seems weird that first levels would always be the worst. Wouldn't the game designer want to hook you in with an awesome first couple of levels to get you playing? Especially in games released for arcades.

To gamers they often seem the worst because the enemies are sparse and the bosses are easy. They do this so as no to scare off the hapless masses... remember, arcade operators want money from everyone that passes by, not just shmup fans.

Post by **Icarus** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:02 am

I love R-Type Final, but I hate the first stage. Even though it's a testing ground for your selected ship(s), it's just too slow, sparse, and takes forever to finish.

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:09 am

Zero Gunner 2, final boss. It just has nothing to do with the rest of the game!

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:33 am

Icarus wrote:I love R-Type Final, but I hate the first stage. Even though it's a testing ground for your selected ship(s), it's just too slow, sparse, and takes forever to finish.

Yeah...agreed.

What would any R-Type be without the giant ship level? Its in just about every R-Type made...a staple in the franchise.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:40 am

visuatrox wrote:R-Type Final would be a much better game if they had removed the large battle ship level (third level I think).

It would've been better if they had found a way to cut out the slowdown on that stage before releasing it. Yet as Icarus said- the first level's enemies are a bit too thinned out. The dimensional warp stage should've just had a wavy background instead of distorting EVERYDAMNTHING.

I do hate that inertia in Aero Blasters- it makes maneuverability a bitch. Those two stages theirselves are good, but the added handicap is not necessary.

The Bullet Dodger · Post by **The Bullet Dodger** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:20 am

visuatrox wrote:R-Type Final would be a much better game if they had removed the large battle ship level (third level I think).

I agree. That level has THE MOST slowdown ever in a horizontal shmup.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:20 pm

Super R-Type's first level sucked cawk. Just wasn't R-Type-ish. And there was an almost embarassing lack of effort put into the boss. Mind you, so did R-Type III's first round actually. 'Looky here, we used Mode 7 and it loks real purty!' Um, yeah, but where's the gameplay?

And Border Down, levels 1-5.

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:42 pm

The Bullet Dodger wrote:
visuatrox wrote:R-Type Final would be a much better game if they had removed the large battle ship level (third level I think).
I agree. That level has THE MOST slowdown ever in a horizontal shmup.

True, but it still isn't as bad as the slowdown in the SNES Gradius III. I find that slowdown actually helps me survive longer. I do agree with the battleship level in Final being too slow however. It takes FOREVER to charge up your wave cannon to just HIGH level.

The Bullet Dodger · Post by **The Bullet Dodger** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:36 pm

FatCobra wrote:
The Bullet Dodger wrote:
visuatrox wrote:R-Type Final would be a much better game if they had removed the large battle ship level (third level I think).
I agree. That level has THE MOST slowdown ever in a horizontal shmup.
True, but it still isn't as bad as the slowdown in the SNES Gradius III. I find that slowdown actually helps me survive longer. I do agree with the battleship level in Final being too slow however. It takes FOREVER to charge up your wave cannon to just HIGH level.

Shit, it takes FOREVER just to get through the damn level.

And speaking of ship levels, I can't forget about that one ship level in 'Darius Gaiden' (forgot which zone it is). When you reach the front of the ship you have to shoot it while it's behind you. And you don't switch directions to face the ship, like you would in G. Darius, which really sucks IMO.

jp · Post by jp » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:49 pm

I've never liked the first level of Metal Black... its so slow... and long... and nothing happens (except for the alien in the aircraft carrier which rocks).

But yeah, level 2 and beyond rock.

First level of BHB (obviously), and... thats all I can think of at the mo'.

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:38 pm

The Bullet Dodger wrote: And speaking of ship levels, I can't forget about that one ship level in 'Darius Gaiden' (forgot which zone it is). When you reach the front of the ship you have to shoot it while it's behind you. And you don't switch directions to face the ship, like you would in G. Darius, which really sucks IMO.

You run into the same situation with the first boss in Hyper Duel, and about the only thing you have that will hit it at that point is your disco beam (or whatever you're supposed to call the "nuke everything" beam.)

Ataru · Post by **Ataru** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:45 pm

visuatrox wrote:R-Type Final would be a much better game if they had removed the large battle ship level (third level I think).

no, R-Type Final would have been an awesome game had they removed the *slow down*.

the battle ship level only sucks because of the slow down.

gs68 · Post by **gs68** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:21 am

Stage 6: Green Inferno in Gradius Gaiden could have been improved.

peeveen · Post by **peeveen** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:51 am

The dimensional warp stage should've just had a wavy background instead of distorting EVERYDAMNTHING.

Did you know that the amount of distortion is directly proportional to the speed of your ship? Slow down to speed 1, and there's almost no distortion, although, of course, you'll be too slow to avoid anything.

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:57 pm

peeveen wrote:
The dimensional warp stage should've just had a wavy background instead of distorting EVERYDAMNTHING.
Did you know that the amount of distortion is directly proportional to the speed of your ship? Slow down to speed 1, and there's almost no distortion, although, of course, you'll be too slow to avoid anything.

I think it was innovative to make everything distorted...its one of the sweetest stages in any game in my book, complimented with equally impressive music (heard through a decent sound system).

I don't know how many sci-movies i've seen when a ship is in warp, its usually blurred or distorted in some way.