Recommend me a jRPG.

[professor ganson]

Here's what I've beaten this summer:

Fire Emblem
Drone Tactics
Luminous Arc 2

And before summer is up I hope to finish

Rondo of Swords

Yes, they're all DS titles and all srpgs, but they are all worthwhile. Judging by reviews, Rondo of Swords is probably too frustrating for most, but for fans of srpgs it's probably the most interesting game this generation. I skipped the story, though. Of the games mentioned above, only Luminous Arc 2 had a story worth following.

I guess I'll have to pick up Nocturne, though I'm more keen on playing Devil Survivor at the moment. I can get Nocturne new for $50 at my local shop, so I should probably do so before it gets hard to find.

[Diabollokus]

I'm playing Lost Odyssey at the moment, half way through Disc 3. Its actually pretty enjoyable, voice acting is good but the main bad guy dosen't feel evil at all. Its better than final fantasy 12 but not as good as final fantasy X. Theres 2 winy little kids though that annoy me but I will happily complete the game so far 8/10.

So many RPGs so little time.

[Elixir]

I started Nocturne last night and I'm already lost, but it's enjoyable and I feel the relation to Persona 4.

Though it's pretty easy and I can auto my way through most battles right now, I'm sure it'll get more interesting later on.

[BulletMagnet]

Heh heh, once Matador tracks you down you'll learn quick. Once again, though, if you look around enough you should be able to figure almost everything out, as I finished the game my first time through, without help, having recruited/fused 97 or 98 percent of the demons available. And I suck. Regardless, Nocturne is arguably my favorite JRPG of all time - hope you enjoy!

[CMoon]

Did you finish all the Kaplas, fight all the fiends, etc? Still think that is pretty impressive for someone who "sucks". Again, this game is all about knowing what you are doing. With knowledge and some creativity, it can be easy; without it, it can be wickedly hard. I mean, how many people, when first getting their ass kicked by Matador are going to say 'wow, if I had a demon resistant to this, with these skills...' For most players its going to mean a lot of backtracking and grinding, but I guess these are growing pains.

Just beat the Red Rider and need to say my defense is JUST holding up (it helped to confuse the Power demons that Red Rider summoned and just focus on punching the rider as hard as possible--oh yeah, and bright might on two of my demons.) Man, having Daisoujou has been a godsend (especially after fusing the makatora skill onto him); I'd certainly have hit a nasty hurdle before now without him.

That said, I just finished the Puzzle Boy and need to say: FUCK YOU ATLUS! Honestly I'll never bother going through it again; even with faqs and videos it is hard. I might have actually enjoyed it if it had let you save your progress, but ultimately it turns into a massive cluster fuck and should probably be avoided at all costs unless you just have to finish every aspect of Nocturne.

[evil_ash_xero]

I thought Dragon Quest VIII was great.

[BulletMagnet]

Did you finish all the Kaplas, fight all the fiends, etc?

I did beat all the Fiends (and I'd probably be willing to say that Red Rider was the toughest of the bunch for me...I took down several of the others on my first try, but he is the latest one I can recall taking several attempts), beat the four Devas, and got as far down into the Amala Labyrinth as I could...unfortunately, how to get to the bottom was the ONE major thing I didn't figure out until after I'd beaten the game, as I'd locked myself out without even knowing it. In any event, by the time I finally gave up on that and got as far as I was willing to go with the Compendium, the "traditional" last boss was a cinch, heh heh.

I mean, how many people, when first getting their ass kicked by Matador are going to say 'wow, if I had a demon resistant to this, with these skills...' For most players its going to mean a lot of backtracking and grinding, but I guess these are growing pains.

I dunno, the main resistances and such that you need, as in most RPGs, are pretty self-evident after you've been beaten to a pulp once (which in itself is a flaw, as I prefer when an RPG gives you SOME hint of which vital skill/resistance you'll need for an upcoming big fight), and it honestly didn't take me long to come up with a party that could bring him down, I hardly recall having to grind at all, mainly just messing around with Fusion a bit.

That said, I just finished the Puzzle Boy and need to say: FUCK YOU ATLUS!

LOL, I can definitely sympathize with that...in fact, that was the LAST little buggy thing I managed to get, because it took me so darn long to solve those puzzles...but again, after untold hours, I DID do it on my own, for whatever that's worth. But good God, was I frustrated for a LONG time by a handful of those stages...I doubt I'll ever be as proud of myself ever again as I was when I finished stage 20.

[Lawfer]

Infinite Undiscovery is garbage. Eternal Sonata is mediocre (but looks great). Blue Dragon is horrible. Magna Carta 2 and Star Ocean 4 also look awful. Lost Odyssey looks average. Cross Edge is weak. And so on.

The only jRPGs I've beaten in the last year have been Tales of Vesperia (which lacked dual audio, but for the most part, enjoyable), Spectral Force 3 (garbage), Demon's Souls which was great, and Persona 4 (which was awesome).

Essentially I need a game that's going to keep me entertained throughout the entire game, like Persona 4 did. I'm looking for something with good gameplay, not just a showcase of graphics. Things like Sakura Taisen are enjoyable.

Anything come to mind guys?

Fact, jRPG's are trash because they are basically rehashing on from the same exact jRPG's released over 9000 times already with the exact same "art style" with some minor refresh such as different characters names, hair color and location.

The only games made in Japan that falls in the "RPG" category that I enjoyed in the past 2 years was Demon's Souls and that wasn't even a jRPG style but a wRPG.

OMIGOD^____^----->

[Elixir]

No I'm pretty sure Nocturne isn't trash. Yes, it's using the same style as the other SMT games and yes, it has stuff like evolving/personae fusing, but that's what a series is. And they all manage to be different despite being related to each other.

Not as distant as say, SotC to ICO, but not as close to each other as Disgaea 1 and 2. Demon's Souls is pretty good but I've already done everything in the game; magic basically breaks everything, Soul Light and MSA are the strongest possible attacks, PvP melee is out of the question due to lag, and it's impossible to find worthwhile cooperative matches if you're 150+. But when you do, it's awesome.

[adversity1]

I admire your quest for a good JRPG. I gave the fuck up after Last Remnant.

[Ganelon]

Fact, jRPG's are trash because they are basically rehashing on from the same exact jRPG's released over 9000 times already with the exact same "art style" with some minor refresh such as different characters names, hair color and location.

That's true, but how many genres that existed before the mid-90s are different? Shooters haven't really budged by any major degree either. If a formula works and is fun, I'd hope that the developer keeps releasing them (Rockman forever). Well-executed innovation is great but having too much of a good thing is still good.

Honestly, if battle mechanics are the main determination for enjoying JRPGs, I don't think the genre is for you at all.

[Elixir]

Pretty sure I never said that battle mechanics were my main determination for anything. I just like them to be eventful while not crowded with stuff (like seeing Winged Slayer over 2000 times, or some of the attacks in the FF series).

@adversity: I actually downloaded a trailer for that but I couldn't see myself playing it. All these 3D RPGs look alike to me. I'm not sure if it was the furries that put me off or the massive slowdown in every single battle.

[ZacharyB]

I think this may be related to what szycag brought up about the upcoming Mario game's new demo mode. Developers are sticking with younger demographics, even though the people who grew up with these genres are getting older. I don't know if jRPGs are made for anyone over the age of 18.

I can't imagine a jRPG designed for people around the age of 30. What would that look and play like? What do 30-year-olds want out of their RPGs? What kind of RPG would a person make who has played them all?

With that said, I'm not sure what I can recommend that I've enjoyed. Parasite Eve?

Anyone know any RPGs that have some kind of relevance to the real world? I think that gives them spice.

[BulletMagnet]

Anyone know any RPGs that have some kind of relevance to the real world? I think that gives them spice.

Not sure what you mean by "relevance to the real world", but the Shadow Hearts games, which were mentioned earlier on, take place in the early 20th century with WWI and whatnot going on in the background, though obviously historical accuracy isn't high on its priorities list. Then Eternal Sonata has Chopin in it, but I don't think that counts.

In all honesty, though, I'm hesitant to believe that a particularly "realistic" J-style RPG would work very well, simply because of how detached from reality the genre's entire premise is - battles consisting of standing around and waiting for your turn to come up, so you can swing something and make numbers appear on top of the other guy? Instantly recovering from wounds (or death) with the right items? People possessing "special" techniques that are far more effective than just smacking the enemy around? The whole structure would prove instantly distracting from any "realistic" premise, at least I think so...then again, there's that "Alpha Protocol" game coming out, which claims to be sort of a "spy RPG", though I don't know much about it.

[CMoon]

I started playing Devil Survivor a couple days ago (at a very leisurely pace) and can say I like it so far. I'm no particular fan of SRPGs as I like the idea of exploration and free movement, but on the other hand SRPGs typically offer such a high degree of customization and a much more complex battle system that sometimes the trade-off is worth it.

Devil Survivor DOES have a high degree of customization, probably on par with Nocturne while more than many of the other recent SMT titles. The whole skill crack, skill bonus thing allows for a lot of options, while being able to freely trade skills between fellow humans is also an interesting touch. Combat itself is first person (just like Elixir likes ), and sticks to the megaten traditions that you've experienced in every other title (exploit enemy weaknesses to get press turns), though with some variation that enjoyable.

If you don't have a DS, this isn't one doesn't justify getting the system, but already having one myself, this seems like a nice addition to my collection.

[Ganelon]

I can't imagine a jRPG designed for people around the age of 30. What would that look and play like? What do 30-year-olds want out of their RPGs? What kind of RPG would a person make who has played them all?

That's only part truth there. They did some demographics sampling when DQIX was released and the vast majority of buyer players were in their 20s and there were much more mid-30 year olds than mid-teens. But then, the fact that the age distribution moved up overall from the past indicates that the fans are mostly OG players who still kept playing. I personally don't get it because I didn't like DQ since the original Dragon Warrior but obviously, there's still appeal to older gamers.

Plus, you also have a few of these more mature themed RPGs (Dragon Knight III and Cobra Mission being classic examples, a lot of niche modern JRPGs fit the bill). Cobra Mission would even fit your bill for a ground-to-earth modern RPG (and the US version even has an innovative battle system). But for realism, the more realism and complications a JRPG incorporates, the more it acts like a CRPG. I don't see why you wouldn't just look to CRPGs instead of forcing yourself to enjoy a genre you have little interest in.

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

@adversity: I actually downloaded a trailer for that but I couldn't see myself playing it. All these 3D RPGs look alike to me. I'm not sure if it was the furries that put me off or the massive slowdown in every single battle.

The PC version of the game is much, much better than the 360 version for whatever that's worth. The real tragedy of the game is that you were originally supposed to be able to play as either Rush or the Conqueror, but they decided to cut that at some point and so you are stuck playing as a really boring and generic JRPG hero.
I don't think it's really a bad game but I wouldn't really recommend it to anyone unless they were huge SaGa fans anyway.

[junkeR]

I'm currently playing... Grandia II...

[adversity1]

@adversity: I actually downloaded a trailer for that but I couldn't see myself playing it. All these 3D RPGs look alike to me. I'm not sure if it was the furries that put me off or the massive slowdown in every single battle.

The PC version of the game is much, much better than the 360 version for whatever that's worth. The real tragedy of the game is that you were originally supposed to be able to play as either Rush or the Conqueror, but they decided to cut that at some point and so you are stuck playing as a really boring and generic JRPG hero.
I don't think it's really a bad game but I wouldn't really recommend it to anyone unless they were huge SaGa fans anyway.

I was really into it up to the second disc. Then when I found out that I had missed one quest on the first disc and that this would not be available on the second, thus ruling out fighting the two TLBs and the rest of the achievements I lost the motivation to play. TLR is a perfect example of the monomaniacal variety of JRPGs: search out ABSOLUTELY everything at every free moment between iterations of the main story or you will be unable to get the best stuff at the end. Some games do this effectively, but they do it mainly by limiting the arena of searching, for instance Chrono Trigger or FF6. But with TLR, literally the available quests change with every movement of the main story so you have to obsessively check every town to see if a quest is available before moving on (this was of course before the guide came out). To me this is trash game design and an exact duplicate of the experience I've had in Japanese workplaces for the past four years so no thanks.

The last JRPG that I can fully recommend would be The World Ends with You for DS. I guess it was done by a more or less independent studio within S-E, and for that reason is not infected with any of the atrocious gameplay of their modern large-scale RPGs.

Having spat all that venom however, I did like FF12 outside of two things: the abysmal and atrocious story, and the 12 chest bullshit that prevents you from getting one of the strongest weapons if you happen to open some chests towards the first half of the game. The game world itself was pretty fascinating and I liked the gambit system. Here's hoping 13 isn't trash.

[Elixir]

Tales of Vesperia has the exact same thing. I like the game, but a good example of initiating side-quests in it would be this: there's a point where a character teams up with you and you all decide to leave. Backtrack to her house and go to the second floor, mash A until you trigger a scene about a blanket. This will start a quest to (eventually) get said joined character's ultimate weapon. But this will only be obtained if you collect Trivial Shitty Cutscene one through thirteen. Then after visiting a town with a giant tree, visit an area with a boss, defeat the boss and randomly backtrack all the way to the town with the huge tree and talk to an old couple to initiate a quest. It's bullshit.

I think the worst thing that Vesperia pulls on you is the true last ending. Basically, after following a guide and obtaining all "ultimate" weapons for all characters, the final boss will transform into some ultra boss who isn't even difficult. After you beat him you get the same fucking ending as you normally would have without all the weapons.

Persona 4 also has the "you might want to use a guide here buddy" thing. After October (especially in the hospital event) there are a series of questions, almost visual novel-esque, where you need to answer all of them correctly. If you don't, GIRL DIES AND HEY ROLL CREDITS. If you do, you get two in-game months worth of extra gameplay to deal with. The worst part about this is that even if you guess them correctly, within those three months, there's another part which consists of what I can roughly decipher as "CHECK EVERY FUCKING SQUARE INCH UP IN THIS SHIT" including going to a shopping mall, selecting "no, I have unfinished business", and backtracking to the dungeon to trigger a cutscene in order to get the "true" ending.

There's essentially three endings in Persona 4 and the worst thing about it is that they're ALL THE FUCKING SAME ENDING. I mean yeah, great game, but unless you want to actively seek out who the true culprit is it's not worth it. This is partly why I dropped Persona 3, as it's impossible to do everything without a guide.

but hey it's a great way to push guidebook sales ~

edit: I just remembered that Eternal Sonata also has this shit. There's a part in Chapter 4 where you need to get some item and deliver it to some random NPC hiding in some tavern's basement in Chapter 5. If you don't, you can't do overlimits or something like that. It actually makes the game really difficult without it. I missed it, but thankfully I had multiple saves from the beginning of each chapter because I knew something like that would happen.

[kozo]

Developers are sticking with younger demographics, even though the people who grew up with these genres are getting older. I don't know if jRPGs are made for anyone over the age of 18.

I can't imagine a jRPG designed for people around the age of 30. What would that look and play like? What do 30-year-olds want out of their RPGs? What kind of RPG would a person make who has played them all?

Anyone know any RPGs that have some kind of relevance to the real world? I think that gives them spice.

Like I said in my earlier post in this thread, check out Front Mission 5. Characters hover around the 25-40 age bracket, and the story is very realistic, moving, and deals with real countries and real possibilities of wars...and it is very not flashy-colors-for-kids. But it is admittedly a strategy RPG, not a pure bred RPG. I can't wholly recommend the rest of the series - they aren't bad, but they each have their own nagging issues - but they paid attention and they got it right with 5, which plays, sounds, looks and just kind of feels different from the rest of the series.

[ZacharyB]

That's only part truth there. They did some demographics sampling when DQIX was released and the vast majority of buyer players were in their 20s and there were much more mid-30 year olds than mid-teens. But then, the fact that the age distribution moved up overall from the past indicates that the fans are mostly OG players who still kept playing. I personally don't get it because I didn't like DQ since the original Dragon Warrior but obviously, there's still appeal to older gamers.

Plus, you also have a few of these more mature themed RPGs (Dragon Knight III and Cobra Mission being classic examples, a lot of niche modern JRPGs fit the bill). Cobra Mission would even fit your bill for a ground-to-earth modern RPG (and the US version even has an innovative battle system). But for realism, the more realism and complications a JRPG incorporates, the more it acts like a CRPG. I don't see why you wouldn't just look to CRPGs instead of forcing yourself to enjoy a genre you have little interest in.

Like I said in my earlier post in this thread, check out Front Mission 5. Characters hover around the 25-40 age bracket, and the story is very realistic, moving, and deals with real countries and real possibilities of wars...and it is very not flashy-colors-for-kids. But it is admittedly a strategy RPG, not a pure bred RPG. I can't wholly recommend the rest of the series - they aren't bad, but they each have their own nagging issues - but they paid attention and they got it right with 5, which plays, sounds, looks and just kind of feels different from the rest of the series.

I'm glad to hear these things.

What is a CRPG? I've never heard that term before.

[CMoon]

What is a CRPG? I've never heard that term before.

Computer RPG. Short of the original paper & pencil dungeons & dragons, the first RPGs were western computer RPGs. I've always seen CRPG used to designate this heritage of RPGs, even though you could probably just about any kind of RPG on a computer these days. I saw some people here using the term wRPG (Western RPG?) and I think it is effectively the same connotation as CRPG.

Others please feel welcome to correct.

[Ganelon]

Yup, it's the official term for western realistic & customization-heavy Computer RPGs. CRPG was the official term used by all the noteworthy developers found in interviews, all magazines, and box descriptions.

But after the term "JRPG" was coined earlier this decade, clueless RPG players who never really got into CRPGs and wasn't familiar with their terminology started calling them WRPGs (western RPG) instead.

[Pringer]

Disgaea 3 is rather good (and in no way related to my name here...), and considerably better than D2. But it is a jSRPG, with very little in the S category...

Phantom Brave or Soul Nomad would be the others to recommend I'd think. I'm pretty sure I saw Phantom Brave pop up earlier in the topic.

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

I was really into it up to the second disc. Then when I found out that I had missed one quest on the first disc and that this would not be available on the second, thus ruling out fighting the two TLBs and the rest of the achievements I lost the motivation to play. TLR is a perfect example of the monomaniacal variety of JRPGs: search out ABSOLUTELY everything at every free moment between iterations of the main story or you will be unable to get the best stuff at the end. Some games do this effectively, but they do it mainly by limiting the arena of searching, for instance Chrono Trigger or FF6. But with TLR, literally the available quests change with every movement of the main story so you have to obsessively check every town to see if a quest is available before moving on (this was of course before the guide came out). To me this is trash game design and an exact duplicate of the experience I've had in Japanese workplaces for the past four years so no thanks.

TBH I haven't finished the game yet so I'm probably talking out my ass, but I was pretty sure the unlockable extra bosses were just extras that weren't really important to the story.

Honestly it generally doesn't bother me at all since I don't sperg out about missing extras or achievements. As much as people bitch about all of the obscurely hidden stuff in FF games, who really cares? It doesn't change the story or the ending or practically any of the gameplay at all.

I remember how much people bitched about Minstrel Song because it's literally impossible to do everything in a single playthrough. Or even close to everything for that matter. I will never understand why people care about 'doing everything'.

[Elixir]

I will never understand why people care about 'doing everything'.

Because developers do it deliberately to add "replay value".

[Momijitsuki]

Either I missed it or nobody actually said it yet:

Earthbound and Mother 3

Awesome.

I hadn't even considered older games. Earthbound is megawin.

[Gwyrgyn Blood]

Because developers do it deliberately to add "replay value".

Yeah but I don't see how a game having some obscure hidden stuff that doesn't matter hurts the game at all.

I can see being pissed about hiding some serious actual content in really stupid ways you could never figure out. Valkyrie Profile is pretty retarded in this regard because your choice in difficulty level at the start of the game restricts what endings you can get. Even if you could figure out the rest of the stuff to unlock the A-Ending, I don't think there's any indication you have to pick Hard to get the best ending (Which is actually significantly different from the B-Ending).

Missing random quests or items along the way because you missed catching them at the right time seems like something really minor to gripe about. Especially since this isn't limited, at all, to JRPGs in the slightest.

[Ganelon]

Too many folks are OCD these days and must feel like they've accomplished everything. It's human nature though to feel a sense of assured completion. That's probably why random stat gains in a JRPG really irk me and some others.

Folks just need to play CRPGs more and get used to games being so large and with no 100% complete FAQs to realize that it's infeasible to complete everything all the time.