Japanese live action sucks

[Skykid]

JP live action movies: god awful.

Their animated films are some of the finest in the world: even tempered, beautifully directed and paced, and masterfully constructed. The live stuff is often the complete opposite.

Everyone is always trying to ram Takashi Miike down my throat. Ichi the Killer: ugh, who the heck really enjoys that garbage?
I do recognise his ability - the first half of Audition is very well directed - but the latter just descends into regular Japanese nutso narcissistic bloodshed and confusion. I'm bored of the same old mental breakdown themes.

Battle Royale 2 is probably the worst film I've ever had the displeasure of seeing. I wanted the entire cast dead - especially the lead for pulling 'that face' - and I didn't even get that in the end. The Ring bored me, and Versus was offensively poor, and Casshern just got turned the hell off.

I tend to find that I'm put off by a few traits that seem to be a requirement in live action JP cinema: Horrifically cheesy overracting, convoluted (to the point of madness) plotlines, and a general need to be OTT in everything. I think that the need to push the actors to behave in an unnaturally expressive manner works in Japan, because Japanese people tend not to witness such emotional outbursts in real life. So the fantasy on screen is heightened by all these twisted, roaring faces, spitting and bellowing theatrically at each other, and generally looking silly.
I have trouble taking it seriously though.

The only films I liked in the last ten years have been the original Battle Royale and Zatoichi. It's back to Kurosawa beyond that.

For my money, the Korean's are doing a much better job of cinema in the Asian field.

Anyone else have the same feeling?

[cools]

Machine Girl is ace.
Ichi is ok, overrated.
Neighbor No 13 is superb.
Visitor Q utter brilliance.
Survive Style 5 fantastic.

Can't remember more right at the moment but there's a good few dozen. It's either wildly good or complete trash.

There's a stack of shit anime too.

Tastes vary

[Skykid]

There's a stack of shit anime too.

That's true!

I'm open minded when it comes to film - if someone suggests something I'm willing to give it a shot. Visitor Q was a big no-no for me, but bar Ichi I haven't seen the others you mentioned.
I appreciate tastes are different, although I can't imagine developing a taste for complete nonsense, no matter how artistic people tell me it is (Kubrick was artistic, Ryuhei Kitamura seems to just miss the point.)

If there are some recommendations for something really excellent I'm always willing to give it a look.

EDIT: As for Machine Girl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBt1SihHDt0

Exactly what I'm talking about. There's no way I'm wasting 2 hours of my life watching that.

[Bootaaay]

If you don't like the crazy overacting, ridiculous plot lines and generally over the top attitude, might I suggest you stop watching Japanese films from the 'batshit insane' genre? To a western fan of Japanese films, this genre is most definetly the most well known and most over-saturated, with directors like Takashi Miike & Shinya Tsukamoto building their international reputations on the back of the fucked up, gore filled craziness seen in films like Ichi, Fudoh, D.O.A, Tetsuo & Snake in June.

Both are two of my favourite directors, but it's not like there aren't alternatives to the batshit insane films that predominate their back catalogue - try these two films;

The Bird People in China - this is one of Takashi Miike's best and least known works, instead of being filled by characters ripped straight out of a manga and accompanied by a ton of gore and craziness, The Bird People in China is Miike's stab at making a road movie - and he more than succeeds, Bird People is a sentimental, often funny & poignant look at how two charaters raised on the adrenaline of city life come to cope and ultimately fall in love with the isolated, rural lifestyle deep in the Chinese mountains.

Vital - Shinya Tsukamoto directs Tadanobu Assano to one of the great performances of his career in this dark and compelling psychological thriller. Asano is a medical student who lays in a coma for a year after a road accident - on regaining conciousness, he has lost all of his memories; except for his knowledge of the medical profession he was studying. He re-enrolls in medical school and begins to restart his life anew, but through working on a cadaver of a young girl he begins to regain memories of his life before the accident.

Also, i'm going to reccomend this one just for the hell of it;

Hana-bi (Fireworks) - along with Sonatine, Hana-bi is considered one of Takeshi Kitano's finest works. In this bleak and tragic film we see Kitano play Nishi, a police officer whose wife is terminally ill and unable to speak, she has little time left so Nishi does whatever he can to make her last weeks enjoyable - to pay for her medical care he has to take out loans from the Yakuza, full well knowing that he can't pay them back. His parter is left paralysed, another partner left dead and Nishi's whole world seems to be crumbling around him, yet he remains stoic, determined to enjoy the precious little time he has left with his wife. Hana-bi lacks the usual wry, off-beat humour of other Kitano films, but it also remains one of his most poignant works.

[thegreathopper]

I would second Hanabi and Sonatine, I am also sure there are lots of great Japanese films but not released in the western market like the ones you have named above.

[Skykid]

Bootaaay, you're right of course. It tends to be the barmy ones that always get lent or recommended to me, and I sit their with my head in my hands and my finger on the off button after about 30 minutes viewing.

Why the totally insane stuff seems to get such a high profile I don't know.

All of your suggestions sound good. I think I actually caught some of Hana Bi on TV once and thought it looked really good - but it was too late to finish watching it. I'll catch up on it.

Not so sure about Vital though - or does this trailer do it no justice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC9FJDhyllc

The Twilight Samurai is one that was recommended to me ages ago that's supposed to be terrific - anyone seen it?

[MX7]

OK, I'm bookmarking this page because I have a lot to say to you

[thegreathopper]

Skykid have you seen When the last sword is drawn? Won Best actor, best film JPN film academy 2003.

Available in the UK on Tartan dvd, best Japanese film I have seen for years.

[neorichieb1971]

I got introduced to death note via a friend. I went and ordered the live action movies and was so impressed.

Its the only DVD collection I have I want to keep, until the Blu rays are officially released.

[Skykid]

death note.

Can't hang with it man, I did try. Found it way too OTT and dumb.

Skykid have you seen When the last sword is drawn? Won Best actor, best film JPN film academy 2003.

No, haven't heard of that one, but it looks quite good from the trailer.
Where the heck are all these movies coming from.

[jonny5]

its funny that you say you enjoy a lot of the anime coming from japan, and then proceed to list off a few movies that in my mind were essentially live action anime's and how you disliked them ....bet money you would have liked them as anime

personally i am a huge fan of the types of movies you seem to dislike.....

i really enjoy the 'overacting' and boisterous characters common in these types of films....

you cannot say anything bad about miike...he's a genius....Kinji Fukasaku is also brilliant.....

seriously....how could you not like casshern?

although tbh, based on some of your comments in other movie threads i wouldnt discount the possibility that you just have bad taste in movies j/k

[neorichieb1971]

In Japan I would imagine to make a full blown movie is ultra expensive compared to the USA. Come to think of it, I haven't seen a movie that shows Japan in modern times except a few tid bits of Tokyo.

Maybe thats why Japan likes animation so much, cuts costs and the skies the limit.

[Rupert H]

When the last sword is drawn?

Indeed. And you can add The Hidden Blade and The Twilight Samurai to the list too. All amazing bakumatsu-period films.

I would guess that the batshit crazy Japanese films are produced for an ignorant export market that lovingly lap up anything Japanese with the required amount of blood letting.

Speaking of Visitor Q, I did find this film at least vaguely interesting in its mission to challenge the boundaries of good taste. It's literally a check-list of taboos being shattered one after another. I could never say it was good, but it pushes the boundaries of commercial film making to the very limit.

[Skykid]

its funny that you say you enjoy a lot of the anime coming from japan, and then proceed to list off a few movies that in my mind were essentially live action anime's and how you disliked them ....bet money you would have liked them as anime

personally i am a huge fan of the types of movies you seem to dislike.....

i really enjoy the 'overacting' and boisterous characters common in these types of films....

you cannot say anything bad about miike...he's a genius....Kinji Fukasaku is also brilliant.....

seriously....how could you not like casshern?

although tbh, based on some of your comments in other movie threads i wouldnt discount the possibility that you just have bad taste in movies j/k

Ha ha, if you could link one single thread which indicates exactly why I have bad taste in films, I'd be impressed.
You can't understand how I didn't like Casshern, and I'm sitting here wondering how anyone could rate two hours of such drivel?

The point you made is a good one though, despite the fact that Anime is a varied beast so you can't pigeonhole it into a medium of just pure OTT violence. The difference between Anime and live action is that Anime, regardless of it's themes, is bound by a stricter budget, so all excess filler has to go in pre-production. Usually this streamlines Anime into very carefully executed entertainment, and often it's brilliantly done.

There's some trash Anime of course, but I tend to leave those well alone. I prefer stuff like Tokyo Godfathers, Patlabor WXIII, Akira and Neon Genesis, but things as marvelous as Ninja Scroll and Fist of the North Star are equally great.

I would guess that the batshit crazy Japanese films are produced for an ignorant export market that lovingly lap up anything Japanese with the required amount of blood letting.

This is you Jonny5 - start linking those threads.

[Acid King]

I've seen a number of live action japanese movies I've enjoyed, the most recent being Onibaba. Others I've liked that haven't been mentioned are Kill!, Youth of the Beast, The Blind Swordsman Zatoichi, and the Most Terrible Time in My Life trilogy.

That said, I really like Ichi the Killer and a number of Miike's movies. I second the Bird People of China. One of the things I've found with a lot of japanese movies I've watched is that they tend to start strong an drag during the middle. Seems like a common problem with Japanese cinema I've seen.

[nZero]

moar Happiness of the Katakuris, plz.

[Ed Oscuro]

How can you hate on Zeiram?

Except for the part where it kills the dog, that wasn't cool.

[Skykid]

moar Happiness of the Katakuris, plz.

That was another that got turned off.

Was it 'Yakuza' where Kitano comes to the US to set up a new empire with a bunch of street punks. That was so bad it was unbearable, but also so bad I laughed a lot at it's unbelievable rubbishness.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

moar Happiness of the Katakuris, plz.

That was another that got turned off.

Was it 'Yakuza' where Kitano comes to the US to set up a new empire with a bunch of street punks. That was so bad it was unbearable, but also so bad I laughed a lot at it's unbelievable rubbishness.

It's known as "Brother" in the USA...the eventual gun battle showdown with "Beat" Kitano & the Yakuza is nuts. I thorughly enjoyed Beat's Sonatine film on both VHS & DVD. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[mulletgeezer]

Skykid, I think you're judging Japanese cinema by the standards of the films that get released on DVD over here... Usually silly, excessive films with shocking overacting, clearly not your cup of tea but it sells. Japanese cinema is way more interesting than anime but you have to dig a little deeper to find the good stuff. There are some great sites around if you search a little. I imagine MX7 will have a massive essay on the subject for you soon though, so maybe you should just wait for that.

Oh and Korean films are nearly always about style over substance. That can still be entertaining though.

[E. Randy Dupre]

Everyone is always trying to ram Takashi Miike down my throat. Ichi the Killer: ugh, who the heck really enjoys that garbage? I do recognise his ability - the first half of Audition is very well directed - but the latter just descends into regular Japanese nutso narcissistic bloodshed and confusion. I'm bored of the same old mental breakdown themes.

Audition doesn't have anything to do with that theme, though.

[jonny5]

its funny that you say you enjoy a lot of the anime coming from japan, and then proceed to list off a few movies that in my mind were essentially live action anime's and how you disliked them ....bet money you would have liked them as anime

personally i am a huge fan of the types of movies you seem to dislike.....

i really enjoy the 'overacting' and boisterous characters common in these types of films....

you cannot say anything bad about miike...he's a genius....Kinji Fukasaku is also brilliant.....

seriously....how could you not like casshern?

although tbh, based on some of your comments in other movie threads i wouldnt discount the possibility that you just have bad taste in movies j/k

Ha ha, if you could link one single thread which indicates exactly why I have bad taste in films, I'd be impressed.
You can't understand how I didn't like Casshern, and I'm sitting here wondering how anyone could rate two hours of such drivel?

The point you made is a good one though, despite the fact that Anime is a varied beast so you can't pigeonhole it into a medium of just pure OTT violence. The difference between Anime and live action is that Anime, regardless of it's themes, is bound by a stricter budget, so all excess filler has to go in pre-production. Usually this streamlines Anime into very carefully executed entertainment, and often it's brilliantly done.

There's some trash Anime of course, but I tend to leave those well alone. I prefer stuff like Tokyo Godfathers, Patlabor WXIII, Akira and Neon Genesis, but things as marvelous as Ninja Scroll and Fist of the North Star are equally great.

I would guess that the batshit crazy Japanese films are produced for an ignorant export market that lovingly lap up anything Japanese with the required amount of blood letting.

This is you Jonny5 - start linking those threads.

while that might be true , i certainly dont limit my mindless gore intake to japanese content alone, and its not that i like it because its japanese....i like it because its interesting....i could show you similar stuff coming out of sweden, russia, germany......its not a japanese phenomenon......the films you metion just happen to be on your radar because they are japanese

i honestly meant no offense skykid....i wouldnt expect these kinds of films to appeal to most people

as for your taste i recall you saying you didnt like the godfather

[Skykid]

Everyone is always trying to ram Takashi Miike down my throat. Ichi the Killer: ugh, who the heck really enjoys that garbage? I do recognise his ability - the first half of Audition is very well directed - but the latter just descends into regular Japanese nutso narcissistic bloodshed and confusion. I'm bored of the same old mental breakdown themes.

Audition doesn't have anything to do with that theme, though.

Apart from being explicitly violent and as convoluted as a Kojima production and the chick being a total mental case? It's been years since I saw it though, so perhaps I'm forgetting some subtleties of the plot.

Skykid, I think you're judging Japanese cinema by the standards of the films that get released on DVD over here... Usually silly, excessive films with shocking overacting, clearly not your cup of tea but it sells. Japanese cinema is way more interesting than anime but you have to dig a little deeper to find the good stuff.

I can believe it. I'm very interested in the Twilight Samurai, I've heard nothing but good things about it. I'm not sure I agree JP cinema is way more interesting than some of the older Anime, but perhaps moreso than most of the new stuff they churn out - that's lost it's character somehow.

Oh and Korean films are nearly always about style over substance. That can still be entertaining though.

I think this is a good point actually - Korean films do tend to be high gloss affairs, although the style in Old Boy was so damn good it made my head spin. Despite that I preferred Sympathy for Mr Vengeance - I think it's the best in the trilogy.

Chan Wook Park also did a film prior called JSA which I really liked. Outside of Park's canon there's certainly an argument that Korean films aren't particularly deep - but I do like my films to have digestible content and behave like a movie, and on that note the Koreans are definitely doing a fine job of introducing some interesting themes into Asian cinema, and often have very strong performances and scriptwriting.

Chinese film shouldn't be overlooked either. Although most HK stuff is ridiculously derivative, Infernal Affairs was great and deserved the attention (perhaps not the remake though.)
Mainland stuff is intriguing: Devils on the Doorstep is a black comedy about two Japanese POW's being captured in a rural Chinese village during the WW2 invasion. A little long at the end, but brilliantly made nonetheless, and still pretty topical.
Also Kekexili Mountain Patrol is an incredible piece of work, really blew everything else out of the water for a good couple of years for me.

as for your taste i recall you saying you didnt like the godfather

Exactly my point, that movie is ridiculously overrated, as is Al Pacino, the all shouting, all barking, can't-quite-do-it-any-other-way actor. People become infatuated with the character of actors rather than their actual ability - hence why people actually like Nicholas Cage. But Hollywood gloss makes it difficult to see the woods for the trees when it comes to acting so I'm not blaming anyone.

No offense taken though - I'm not into the overly macabre stuff anyway. I know the French are currently releasing some gag-inducing material people keep trying to get me to watch (like Martyr) and I don't see the value in it really (even though a good silly horror movie is certainly something I can enjoy.)

[thegreathopper]

When the last sword is drawn?

Indeed. And you can add The Hidden Blade and The Twilight Samurai to the list too. All amazing bakumatsu-period films.

Thanks I will check these out.

[handsome_rakshas]

I really enjoyed Adrift in Tokyo.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Director Chan Wook Park has another cool and stylish horror thriller coming out later this year with main title name of "Thirst". After watching the full-length movie trailer of it on IFC, it looks like an interesting horror film indeed. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[BryanM]

hence why people actually like Nicholas Cage.

Nobody actually likes Cage, he just had a powerful Hollywood Uncle so Hollywood Nephew got to be in movies all the time so peoples just got used to seeing him around.

Nicholas Cage is the Garfield of actors.

I can't think of a lead actor that's any more mediocre than he. Halp?

[Aru-san]

Just to throw this out there...but Swing Girls is a decent live-action movie that I watched in my Japanese class at one time. I also bought the DVD today at Japantown (it's region-free, according to the ALL sign at the back).

In before Shmups forum throws tomatoes at me for recommending girl-populated movies.

[handsome_rakshas]

Director Chan Wook Park has another cool and stylish horror thriller coming out later this year with main title name of "Thirst". After watching the full-length movie trailer of it on IFC, it looks like an interesting horror film indeed. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Opens in a theater here in Chicago on Friday and I'll be there with bells on!

[Skykid]

hence why people actually like Nicholas Cage.

Nobody actually likes Cage

Some do. I have to grit my teeth while talking to them.

I can't think of a lead actor that's any more mediocre than he. Halp?

Charlie Sheen was pretty abominable in his heyday.