Helicopter Shumpfight : Zero Gunner vs Under Defeat

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:46 pm

I'd have to say that with Psikyo's earlier effort with the 2-D transformations of the end-stage bosses as shown in Strikers1999/Strikers 1945 III, they do a superb job in Zero Gunner 2's end-stage boss transformations as well. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Pointman · Post by **Pointman** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:50 pm

*sigh* and there was me thinking which helicopter from these games would win in a fight. My vote would be for the ZG2 copter as it can rotate 360 degrees. The lame-o UD copter can't turn that far and before you know it, BAM!, death from 180 degrees away.

Gespenst · Post by **Gespenst** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:13 am

sven666 wrote:

:highbrow:

Oh man. I forgot to put that

Dragoforce wrote:
lgb wrote:Twin Cobra.

Kyukyoku Tiger II, but I don't list them, because I feel ZG and UD looks... in a same way (just like...R-Type and Gradius?)

Chacranajxy · Post by **Chacranajxy** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:36 am

Man, how does Zero Gunner 2 even have votes? I mean, it's kinda okay-ish... but Under Defeat is great, even if you ignore its graphical prowess.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:51 am

Those who accuse others of fanboyism for liking UD are in fact closeted (or not-so closeted) Psikyo fanboys. So there.

OldSchoolGamer86 · Post by **OldSchoolGamer86** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:51 pm

I am going to vote for Thunder Dragon.

In all honesty though, I voted for Under Defeat because the game is much better overall than ZG2. Both are good but I think UD has ZG2 beat. The overall gameplay is easier to get acquainted to, as well as being challenging and a lot more fun. UD is also a much longer game so you can get more out of it.

In the end, both games I think are good, but UD has ZG2 beat.

msm · Post by **msm** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:06 pm

i don't like under defeat, it has silly perspective and silly moving hitbox

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:46 pm

1 vote for under defeat! It rules. I like the aiming, the charging, the trying to kill everything and the dodging.

ZG2 seems a little slo-mo plus the turn around is like trying to back up my car. I'd rather play forgotten worlds.

Alec · Post by **Alec** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:44 am

yeah.

ketsui by a mile

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:17 am

not Twin Cobra, therefore, you loseth

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am

professor ganson wrote:I didn't know you liked it, CIT. Is it your favorite Psikyo?

It's up there, my favorite is Sengoku Blade tho.

Casey120 · Post by **Casey120** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:19 am

I love both games but UD has Tate and i like the controls better !

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:41 am

Herr Schatten wrote:
mjclark wrote:I guess Under Defeat will win this poll hands down though
That's because people like pretty games.

So you actually mean that ZG2 should win hands down, right?

I really don't understand the how people could think UD looks better than ZG2.
It's nice but imho opinion doesn't come close to ZG2.
I even think those hailed explosions are way overrated.
(only part I really think is nice looking are the battle ship scenes in stage 2).

But aside of the looks, I enjoy playing ZG2 a lot. And I can't say the same about UD, which is merely ok.

`Throwdown · Post by **`Throwdown** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:15 pm

None of the above.

I vote for Demolition Guner.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:30 pm

`Throwdown wrote:None of the above.

I vote for Demolition Guner.

Awaiting supporters for "Raid over Bungling Bay"*

*which was pretty good at the time of release.........

Starfighter · Post by **Starfighter** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:55 pm

I voted for Zero Gunner 2.. I don't know (care) which is the better one on paper, I just listened to the rainbows after a spring rain. They said I've played Zero Gunner 2 more than Under Defeat. And they never lie.

clp · Post by **clp** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:03 pm

under defeat all the way , its good looking solid gameplay and a nice tough challenge , ZG is pretty easy and the 360 motion is pretty annoying in a i dont even have to attempt to weave through kinda way .

TLB · Post by **TLB** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:25 pm

ZG2 is all safe spots, no bombs.

EDIT: Also this:

mjclark wrote:
antron wrote:what's with the pause when you die in UD?
So you have time to say "Shit!" :D

Jack Burton · Post by **Jack Burton** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:38 pm

+1 vote for Under Defeat.

If you guys like Under Defeat you should try Avenger for turbo duo.
http://www.pcengine.co.uk/HTML_Games/Avenger.htm

You're better off watching the video directly off of youtube. Their site seems to bog down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1QGnuiV8nc

Gespenst · Post by **Gespenst** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:18 pm

Well, after I tried both, I must say: Under Defeat all the way.

edit: ZG2>=UD, but I haven't tried Ketsui other than Ketsui: Death Label :/

Grinning Cat · Post by **Grinning Cat** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:37 pm

jandrogo wrote:
Kron wrote:ZG2>UD>Ketsui
It's a personal opinion, but: ZG2<UD<Ketsui

You're both wrong

It's: Ketsui>ZG2>>>UD

Am staggered that Under Defeat is still leading at this point - it's so much worse than Zero Gunner 2 it's almost tragic!

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:16 pm

Super Laydock wrote:
`Throwdown wrote:None of the above.

I vote for Demolition Guner.
Awaiting supporters for "Raid over Bungling Bay"*

*which was pretty good at the time of release.........

*BungEling Bay

Dunno why they added the E, but there it is.

p.s. there's no E in Twin Cobra, but there is an I.

chempop · Post by **chempop** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:55 pm

I'm shocked to see this much hate for UD! Sure the isometric view can be troubling at first, maybe some of you can't get used to it, but that is still no reason to think the game is bad. What are the other complaints about it - no powerups, simple scoring mechanic, something else I don't know about? If you can't see that it is a finely crafted game then I guess you must have missed out on everything prior to 95' because Under Defeat is much more of a classic old school kinda shmup.

Does all the hate stem from the rabid-Cave camp or something, the kinda fools listing Gunbird 2 as the worst shmup ever...? This board has always been seedy and elitist, but just because you don't like something doesn't mean you have to talk trash and look down on fans who feel differently. I voted for both because ZG2 and UD are both really great games and I understand why someone might prefer one over the other.

TLB · Post by **TLB** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:45 pm

Wow...Gunbird 2 being the worst shmup ever? Seriously? It's a fantastic game.

Same with Under Defeat. When I first played it I thought it was a gift from fairy tale gods. Just because it's not Cave, Raizing, or Psikyo, doesn't mean it's a shitty game. As chempop said, it's just older styled. All you have to do is hook it up in VGA, tip a nice 17" CRT on its side, hit R a few times, get some good sound output (MAKE SURE THE BASS IS PROPERLY CARED FOR), and you have a religious experience on your hands.

Kollision · Post by **Kollision** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:26 pm

My vote for Zero Gunner just tied the numbers on 36 x 36.
Let's see what's next!

Zero Gunner 2 is the best game Psikyo ever made.

Elaphe · Post by **Elaphe** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:21 pm

Zero Gunner 2 is a masterpiece, one of the best games in my Dreamcast collection, much better than Under Defeat, which technically is amazing, but that's all. Zero Gunner 2 has a very innovative control system and I think they really succeded with that.

TLB · Post by **TLB** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:07 pm

ZG2EZ wut

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:00 am

chempop wrote:Does all the hate stem from the rabid-Cave camp or something, the kinda fools listing Gunbird 2 as the worst shmup ever...?

Haha, no. The game just doesn't feel right for a number of reasons. Avenger, Gyrodine, Thunder Dragon. There sure are a ton of the left and right tilting helicopter shooters but there is only one Zero Gunner 2.

slap_fight · Post by **slap_fight** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:09 pm

under defeat for me, but twin cobra is the ultimate tiger!!!

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:33 pm

Under Defeat gets my vote. I like how it mixes together old(ish) school gameplay, beautiful graphics (God those smoke effects are gorgeous), a funky but fun control setup, a nice soundtrack, and the change in scenery as you hit the second loop. The fact that it also gives a good challenge without relying on bullet curtains and screen filling bullet globs is a plus to me as well.

It just appeals to me more than ZG and ZG2 on an aesthetic and gameplay level.

shmups.system11.org

Helicopter Shumpfight : Zero Gunner vs Under Defeat

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