Xbox 360 Shmups - Where to start?

[CptRansom]

I've always been a casual fan of vertical/horizontal shmups, but I'm looking to get a bit more "hardcore" into them.

I have (current GS listed just to roughly show where I stand):

1942 Joint Strike (40)
Aegis Wing (200)
Crescendo Symphony (n/a)
Gyruss (110)
Ikaruga (95)
Omega Five (0)
R-Type Dimensions (30)
Raiden Fighters Aces (780)
Triggerheart Exelica (100)

Just from a standpoint of trying to get better overall, where do you guys think I should start off? I know they're all different in their own ways, but surely there are general skills that can be practiced and a good game to work on for them (well, besides shoot everything and don't die)?

Also - controller or arcade stick?

[junkeR]

I would say the best start would be Ikaruga. I'm such a fan of that game. I'd probably look into getting an arcade stick or better controller, because I remember the Xbox d-pad being really terrible.

[CptRansom]

Oh, I already have a stick. I was just wondering which is preferred because I normally use the analog on the controller.

[XERO]

by buying a japanese xbox 360.....

[CptRansom]

That's just a little out of my price range. =( Let's just assume I'm stuck with this one and work with the list that's already there (or suggest something that can be played on my US 360... I'm preordering Raiden IV this week).

[Ghegs]

Oh, I already have a stick. I was just wondering which is preferred because I normally use the analog on the controller.

Just use what you like. Others like sticks, others like pads. There are good examples of both for 360. The Madcatz Fightpad is very good as is the Hori pad.

[E. Randy Dupre]

Wait, there's a decent Hori pad for the 360? The MadCatz one feels cheap and doesn't have the kind of response that I'm after - I didn't realise that there was an acceptable alternative.

[Ghegs]

Wait, there's a decent Hori pad for the 360? The MadCatz one feels cheap and doesn't have the kind of response that I'm after - I didn't realise that there was an acceptable alternative.

I like the Fightpad quite a bit myself. The Hori pad is another good one. Play-Asia has them for the moment again, they seem to get a new shipment every once in a while.

[thamasha69]

I find that I am able to score higher and get farther when using a stick. I never want to go back to using pads, but you may prefer the pad....give the stick a shot for a while on a game your real familiar with and see how you connect with it.

[Zeether]

Achievement points =/= score

[CptRansom]

Achievement points =/= score

I don't think anyone said that it does? I posted my GS to show -roughly- how I am at those games already. For example, it's pretty obvious that I have some passing familiarity with Ikaruga, but pretty much no experience with R-Type Dimensions.

[Elixir]

The point is that achievements have often very little to do with skill level. For instance, I 1cc'd DOJ BL and unlocked the achievement, but it also unlocks if you credit feed through the game.

[Rob]

Just from a standpoint of trying to get better overall, where do you guys think I should start off?

You'll get better by playing the games you like.

[EPS21]

The point is that achievements have often very little to do with skill level. For instance, I 1cc'd DOJ BL and unlocked the achievement, but it also unlocks if you credit feed through the game.

BLEX is a bad example, but at least some games do it right for the most part. For instance, have fun getting to bloody jitterbug for 100 points.

[Twiddle]

Just from a standpoint of trying to get better overall, where do you guys think I should start off?

You'll get better by playing the games you like.

this

[jefflev13]

Basically, the only great STG available on western 360 is Ikaruga. Raiden Fighters is decent, but the rest of the list, not too exciting. I wish I could afford a Japanese 360 too (maybe at the end of the year)! Really, I'd recommend thinking about getting off the 360 and spending some time with MAME and digging into the history, if you haven't already. Also definitely feel like since I've switched to using a stick instead of a pad it has helped a lot, especially with the more heavy bullet dodging.

[gray117]

Hardcore is such an awkward phrase... ... and in the context of this site is probably reserved for a particular combination of high £ (or rather $) spending as well as hours of playing...

... However, all things being relative I think i understand what you're after - crazy bullet shooting fun.

Incidently also in the context of this site - survival and just getting through these games are more standard fare rather than hardcore. Hardcore is doing that and getting outrageous score. But don't be discouraged! There's many of us here who love shmups but can't compete at hardcore highscore levels ... or even 'complete' some games, depending on how you classify completion

Anyways:

Your best bet is that Raiden iv - so ...er... good choice!
Ikaruga - can't go wrong for the cost - its not particularly crazy hardcore but pretty intense.
Trigger Heart for something of a hectic fun feel with a good mechanic and cheap.

Cave games typify (correctly/incorrectly maybe argued) the hardcore in shmups - unfortunately microsoft has pretty much said no to them being brought out on xbox live / license costs and development issues, will mean they'll probably never be released outside jap/asia region.

Maybe consider the ps2/saturn import options depending on you're developing tastes? Plenty of recommendations on this in chat. Of course by the end of the year, maybe with another game or 2 released that j360 might look even better

[Kaspal]

Hardcore is such an awkward phrase... ... and in the context of this site is probably reserved for a particular combination of high £ (or rather $) spending as well as hours of playing...

... However, all things being relative I think i understand what you're after - crazy bullet shooting fun.

Incidently also in the context of this site - survival and just getting through these games are more standard fare rather than hardcore. Hardcore is doing that and getting outrageous score. But don't be discouraged! There's many of us here who love shmups but can't compete at hardcore highscore levels ... or even 'complete' some games, depending on how you classify completion

Anyways:

Your best bet is that Raiden iv - so ...er... good choice!
Ikaruga - can't go wrong for the cost - its not particularly crazy hardcore but pretty intense.
Trigger Heart for something of a hectic fun feel with a good mechanic and cheap.

Cave games typify (correctly/incorrectly maybe argued) the hardcore in shmups - unfortunately microsoft has pretty much said no to them being brought out on xbox live / license costs and development issues, will mean they'll probably never be released outside jap/asia region.

Maybe consider the ps2/saturn import options depending on you're developing tastes? Plenty of recommendations on this in chat. Of course by the end of the year, maybe with another game or 2 released that j360 might look even better

^^ this...

i might end up getting a J360 by the end of the year... but cant help but curse on M$ because of their silly policy.

[CptRansom]

I put "hardcore" in quotes for a reason. =) I used to just pick them up and play once in a great while without really trying to improve my game. Now I am. As for playing the ones I enjoy... I enjoy all of them! Honestly, I was just looking for recommendations that would improve my overall game. I didn't mean to start any debates or anything. =/

A question about J360 though... I had a friend tell me that a J360 will play US games as well and work with a US hard drive? So would it be possible to buy an arcade J360, take my current HDD and use it, and still be able to play US games and US XBLA games?

[Icarus]

I would say the best start would be Ikaruga. I'm such a fan of that game. I'd probably look into getting an arcade stick or better controller, because I remember the Xbox d-pad being really terrible.

I wouldn't, since the game is completely unconventinal, and extremely obtuse.
And the fact that you're a huge fan of the game clouds your judgement slightly.

Take Raiden Fighters Aces instead - in particular RF2. Aside from the medalling technique (which is easy enough to get down within a week of occasional practice), the game itself is just straight up blasting, with a handful of secrets along the way.

[clp]

I would say the best start would be Ikaruga. I'm such a fan of that game. I'd probably look into getting an arcade stick or better controller, because I remember the Xbox d-pad being really terrible.

God no bad idea as icarus has already pointed out , ikaruga is a full on puzzle game with some serious memorisation its barely even a shmup this is of course if your playing it properly . I get the impression most people just love ikaruga for aesthetics ZOMG GRAFIKZ etc as many of the skilled players on here dont talk about ikaruga with such high regard .

[bucklemyshoe]

I would say the best start would be Ikaruga. I'm such a fan of that game. I'd probably look into getting an arcade stick or better controller, because I remember the Xbox d-pad being really terrible.

I wouldn't, since the game is completely unconventinal, and extremely obtuse.
And the fact that you're a huge fan of the game clouds your judgement slightly.

Take Raiden Fighters Aces instead - in particular RF2. Aside from the medalling technique (which is easy enough to get down within a week of occasional practice), the game itself is just straight up blasting, with a handful of secrets along the way.

I can't be the only one who finds soooo much wrong with this statement?

Start with Ikaruga. It's the game that really turned me onto the modern world of shmups.

I like RF2 as well but a better starting point than Ikaruga? Come on. Besides the skills you learn in Ikaruga can be transferred to other games while you pretty much learn/improve absolutely nothing playing RF2

[Rob]

I like RF2 as well but a better starting point than Ikaruga? Come on.

Yes. RF2 is more in tune with core shooting game design (dodge and shoot rather than absorb and shoot - Ika's ship is basically equipped with invincibility, which is not going to get you better at games where you are expected to dodge). Ikaruga's challenge is in memorizing enemy chains which is a very game-specific task. But obviously, if you like Ikaruga then go for it.

[Elixir]

Start with neither. Ikaruga? RF2? Are you kids for real.

Go with something more realistic, like Mushihimesama Original, Imperishable Night Normal, Dodonpachi (not Daioujou), or Death Smiles.

[Icarus]

Start with neither. Ikaruga? RF2? Are you kids for real.

Go with something more realistic, like Mushihimesama Original, Imperishable Night Normal, Dodonpachi (not Daioujou), or Death Smiles.

Are you for real as well? The guy currently has a US 360.
And none of those are available in the US.

[Elixir]

I am aware of that. Like most of us, he will have to adapt to circumstance, and not limit himself to a US 360.

Hey, it beats giving him unrealistic goals like RF2 and Ikaruga. You won't gain much dodging skill out of either.

[bucklemyshoe]

I think there is quite a bit to learn from a game like Ikaruga if something like DOJ was on your list of games you'd like to 1CC.

[Elixir]

Who said anything about daioujou?