STGT 2009 - because there just hasn't been enough bitching

[mikwuyma]

I noticed there's no STGT talk on the forums even though STGT 2009 should be happening soon (STGT sign ups usually happen in July). I'm guessing there is no discussion because no one is willing to run STGT. Since I helped run things last year, I figure I'm up to the task. Dex said he's willing to write the scoreboard programs again, so we should be good.

Links to previous STGTs here (too lazy to put them in now, someone give me links)

Timeline

Since we'll be starting late this year, we should do registration ASAP and begin the tournament at the first or second week of September, instead of the last week of August as has been done in the past.

The weeks should be cut down from 10 to 5 or 6 weeks. Playing for 10 weeks takes forever, and having a voting week kills momentum and lets people practice more (especially if the winner is going to be obvious). In addition, it's not difficult to vote during a playing week. If we want a break, then we can stick it in between weeks 2 and 3, or weeks 3 and 4.

Scoring

It was perfect last year. This shouldn't be changed

Voting

One person suggested no voting for a couple of weeks to protect the voters from themselves, but then you would all be subject to my choices.

I think we can keep the system the same (3 choices per week), though I could take over and just pick a game one week.

The playing weeks

No Cave (we had two games last year), no Doujin (didn't work out very well), and no caravan (SOS! SOS!).

Obvious choices:

Raizing Week
Psikyo Week
Last Year's Stragglers (games that were good choices last year, but lost)

A week that's not a bad idea:

Hidden Gem week (a shmup that's not popular, but is fun and has a good scoring system)

I don't really have an idea for the fifth week. I think Manic week has been played out. It could be Horizontal shmup week, but I don't think there are a whole lot of good hori shmups that work for a week-long competition (maybe one of the Parodius games?). I'm willing to hear some ideas, because I have no idea what the fifth week should be.

I could also use a couple of ideas for hidden gem week (I have some, but more would be nice).

Remaining Tasks

I should be able to do registration and update the scoreboard for each week. Dex is willing to make a scoreboard program, so keeping the scoreboard updated shouldn't be a problem.

I can handle the voting, but I would rather not if someone else is willing to volunteer.

Someone needs to post the results. Davey posted the results last year, and he did a great job, but I haven't contacted him about it yet.

If someone other than Zebra Airforce did the banners for this year's STGT, I would be offended.

I probably forgot something, so just bring it up in this thread in case if I did.

[bkk]

Agreed on all points. Now that Progear is out of the way Hori week sounds like a good idea

[MR_Soren]

I'm all for this. I was surprised signups hadn't started yet, I guess I now know why.

How about we have 1 voting/practice week for the whole contest, followed by five weeks of games? Announce a vote winner at the start of each week? I could handle voting if it won't prevent me from playing.


Scoring was perfect last year.

I'm all for Raizing Week, Psikyo Week, and Last Year's Stragglers.

We should probably have a Cave Week. The problem last year was that the Cave games kept us from playing anything else. Putting all of the cave games in the same week will prevent that from happening.

How about a Raiden Week or a side-scroller week?


bkk, davey, and crithit... let's destroy?

[Danbo]

I don't think the tournament will be that popular if you just say outright "no cave". Nothing wrong with a Manic week either, particularly as a finisher. September is rather late too...

[MR_Soren]

I don't think the tournament will be that popular if you just say outright "no cave". Nothing wrong with a Manic week either, particularly as a finisher. September is rather late too...

Last year's week one was in the week where august ended and september started.

I agree that "no cave" will hurt attendance. That's why I suggested what I did, but failed to fully explain why.

[Danbo]

I really don't remember it being that late. Oh well, whatever.

If you really want to curb the number of cave games that get played then a week and nothing else is the best choice as chances are they'll dominate the voting for whatever other weeks they get included in.

[VorpalEdge]

If we're not going to have voting weeks, then make this 4 weeks long, and put a break in between weeks 2 and 3. Unless we do cave week, in which case I look forwards to Uo Poko.

also, no voting, period; i hate everybody's tastes too much for that

[Dragoforce]

Personally i'm all in for a no-Cave competion, but I can guess it will be quite impopular with some people... Otherwise it looks cool, thank you for doing this!

[DEL]

Shorter Tournament - yes fine.
No Cave - yes fine.
A Hori week would be good .

[dmzach]

idk I like raizing games

[dex]

I should be able to do registration and update the scoreboard for each week. Dex is willing to make a scoreboard program, so keeping the scoreboard updated shouldn't be a problem.

I can handle the voting, but I would rather not if someone else is willing to volunteer.

Someone needs to post the results. Davey posted the results last year, and he did a great job, but I haven't contacted him about it yet.

Of course I'll do the scoreboard prog.

If you want I can do the result posting, too, if Davey doesn't want to do that, that is.

[moozooh]

I would like to repeat my idea I proposed at the end of the previous STGT:

If there are three games to choose from, you should either pick one you vote for, or one you vote against.

If anything, it solves the problem of being undecided between two games you prefer equally without introducing any new drawbacks.

Also, we don't particularly have to stick to "Sunday — Sunday" scheme during the phases. I mean we can rest and vote for 2-3 days and play for 7 without having to wait until the particular day of the week to begin the next phase. This probably makes a lot more sense than voting during playing week when you don't always have time to playtest all game choices. This would mean 6.5 to 7 weeks of the tourney time, which is closer to minimum (5) than to what we had previously (10).

[Danbo]

I think we should have a Progear Week.

[mikwuyma]

bkk and DEL: If you have some good suggestions for hori week, then I'm for it. All I can think of right now is Sengoku Blaede (redundant with Psikyo week), Parodius (I know nothing about these games), Thunder Force AC (if it's really just an arcade version of TF3, then it's hilariously easy), and Gradius 3 (I don't think anyone wants to play this game).

MR_Soren: That voting suggestion is not a bad idea. It would get all of the voting out of the way immediately, and just let us play through each week in succession.

Danbo Daxter: I'm revoking your voting privileges.

Dex: Great!

About Cave: There are two problems with Cave week.

1. I think a lot of people who were in the tourney last year are tired of Cave games.

2. I can't think of three good choices for a week-long tourney.

Donpachi: Not a lot of people like this game. Also, the chaining is even stricter than DDP
DDP: Strict chaining with very little leeway. It's not good for a week-long game.
Esp.rade: zzzzzzzzz (after 10 minutes of milking)
Dangun Feveron: We did it last year, though people tell me the main game is a lot better than time attack.
Guwange: Oops I missed a couple of enemies, RESTART.
Progear: We played this last year, we all now know how unfun it can be to play for score (though getting the diamond vacuum does feel good).

Galuda would be perfect for a scoring week, too bad it's not emulated on MAME yet.

I don't think tourney attendance will be hurt by a lack of Cave. 2k7 had no Cave games and attendance was still fine.

Also, I edited the first post to reflect this, but any suggestions for hidden gem week would be great. I have a couple, but I should still try some more out.

[RGC]

week 5 needs a dragon theme

[Danbo]

I don't know how much of a hidden gem Cyvern is, but it's pretty cool. Galuda or Ibara would be my candidates for a Cave week, it's just a shame that you can't count on everyone being able to play those games...

[The Coop]

[MR_Soren]

Okay, forget Cave this year. Though I'd be happy with DonPachi, ESPrade, or Feveron regular mode.

AS for horis, R-Type Leo, any Gradius/Parodius, Metal Black, Sector Z, probably a lot I'm not remembering. Silk Worm? Maybe replace "hori week" with "non-vertical week" thus opening up Time Pilot '84, Smash TV, and other options.

Last year's stragglers must include Thunder Dragon II.

[lgb]

I fight for periods in the future

Yes on the timeline, FUCK THE VOTING WEEKS
Yes on the scoring, thanks Dex
Let's do 4 games a week thing, I also like moozooh's suggestion

Raizing
Psikyo
Toaplan
Dragon
Touhou (it's hard to find a computer that the games don't work on, but I know the hypocritical bullshit is going to come up)
Hidden Gem (stick a Touhou in here lol)
Last Year's Stragglers
Horizontals
Nichibutsu
maybe a walk-around week, but you'll have to force the latest Mame on everyone for one obvious choice (Outzone), though that isn't exactly a bad thing

oh god horizontals, a Konami week between Gradius II, either Paro DA or Goku Paro, and Salamander 2 would kick a bit of ass

[Danbo]

The problem with Touhou (well) is that you'd have to buy/steal the games to play past the first 3 stages, which are traditionally completely trivial anyway. Also the fact that arguably the fasted-paced and most gimmick-free one is the one with no real scoring system to speak of.

[lgb]

THERE IT IS, THERE IT IS

but god, why did it have to be the very post under mine

edit: tEoSD's system is somewhat complex, it just doesn't have a bunch of shiny shit

[bsidwell]

If you can't find Touhou games on the Internet you might be clinically retarded.

[Danbo]

THERE IT IS, THERE IT IS

but god, why did it have to be the very post under mine

Playing games on MAME is a little different, if that's what you mean.

[lgb]

yes, even though they are made by large companies (ie, they are more likely to declare copyright infringement) and there are far more individual cases of piracy involved

[Danbo]

It's not the large companies. It's the fact that paying for a PCB and cabinet/supergun is a lot more than $10 for one of the Touhou games (excluding the occasional console port)... I'd have no problem with seeing EoSD, PCB or IN up there but that's most likely the problem most people would have.

[moozooh]

I'm pretty sure the problem most people would have is getting the thing to run on sucky old PCs and non-Windows systems. Hey, maybe we'll just be better off making a separate tourney for doujins. Far less problems that way, imo.

Also, if only taking demos into account, EoSD is so far the only one worth considering as it doesn't rely upon end-of-game bonus whatsoever, unlike, say, IN.

[Aru-san]

I'm pretty sure the problem most people would have is getting the thing to run on sucky old PCs and non-Windows systems. Hey, maybe we'll just be better off making a separate tourney for doujins. Far less problems that way, imo.

I'm thinking of starting a 4-week doujin tournament sometime after STGT. The problem now is figuring out which doujin shmups to use. Of course, I'm not doing all Touhou games because I want this to be a doujin tournament where all other games can be used, not a Touhou tournament.

The weeks put to use:
RAYFORCE doujin week - Kamui
TOUHOU doujin week - Touhou Youyoumu -Perfect Cherry Blossom-
CAVE doujin week - Blue Wish Resurrection
MISCELLANEOUS doujin week - Gundeadligne

Prone to changes especially due to bitching of game choices. If needed, I'll accept ideas for demo versions for the more big shot doujins like Touhou.

[lgb]

Aru-san: I still want to play Touhou in STGT

moozooh: Touhou seems to run fairly well on WINE (which is why I said good luck finding a computer that can't play it, otherwise the games require as much as any Toaplan2 game in Mame I'm sure; yes either tEoSD or SA would be perfect for this though I dunno if anyone wants to play SA lol

danbo daxter: that is bad imo, also Touhou games are not $10, they go for more like $30 or $40 + shipping (and that's on paletweb); also PCB prices fluctuate and some could be terribly cheap while some could be terribly expensive

[Danbo]

Touhou will run on anything, works well in both Wine and the mac wine thing (Crossover is it?) which is more than can be said of MAME

When I bought them they were in the region of 10-15 per game before shipping. Of course to get them into the damn country I had to pay a hefty customs fee...

[lgb]

see, it's that import shit that gets you because quite a few things would be much cheaper without

yes I do believe all of ZUN's games are 800 yen by default so they are supposed to be insanely cheap but they rarely are