the Metroid series (late to the party)

[Herr Schatten]

Having pretty much ignored the series for a long time, only recently I got into Metroid. The special feature in one of the last issues of Retro Gamer inspired me to pick up my half-finished playthrough of Metroid Fusion, which I had lying around for years, literally, and finally finish the game. Apart from a few nitpicks (which I'll adress later) I enjoyed the game quite a bit, so I got me a copy of Zero Mission next. I'm currently at the point in the Zero Mission where it becomes some kind of stealth game (after destroying Mother Brain).

I don't think we had a discussion of the merits of the individual games in the series yet, so I'm really interested in sparking one and hearing some opinions on what's good and what's not. I know that Super Metroid is supposed to be the pinnacle of the series, so I'm interested in hearing what seperates it from the other entries.


Let me start with a few comments on the two games I've played. I think the games have the action-adventure formula pretty much down, yet still there are a few niggles, which I find surprising finding in the latter entries of such a long-running series:

-I feel that the bosses are a weak point of both games. Very few of them require actual strategy. With most of them you fare much better just pumping out missiles like mad, hoping the boss's health depletes quicker than yours, which is a "strategy" that works like 90% of the time. It's a bit of a disappointment, really.
- Later bosses are not necessarily harder to beat than bosses earlier in the games, which looks like poor balancing. (Examples: Kraid is the most difficult boss I've encountered in Zero Mission. The SA-X in Fusion ist stupidly hard, while the following last boss is a total pushover.)
- While Fusion has an abundance of bosses, Zero Mission has too few of them. Something inbetween would be just right.
- Additionally, although this is just a cosmetical point, bigger bosses do not look like they belong to the same game world, because they are depicted in a 3/4 view instead of the strict side-view of the backgrounds and the other sprites. They also look like they are scanned-in drawings and not like they are drawn by a skilled pixel artist, seperating them in style from the rest of the game world. They are also really poorly animated, which further strengthens their "clip art" appearance. In contrast, the smaller bosses do look amazing.
- Some secret passages can only be discovered by pure luck. As long as there's only bonus content hiding behind them, that's okay, but in Fusion, there is at least one spot where you need one of those passages to progress in the main game. Looks like bad level design to me.

Despite these few pet peeves I do enjoy the games and I plan on playing tthe rest of the series (unless one of the games is seriously bad and should be avoided). Can you tell me a bit more about those other entries? What are your feelings towards the two GBA titles? How would you rate all the entries in the series, quality-wise? Discuss.

EDIT: spelling.

[BulletMagnet]

I haven't played the original two (though IIRC the NES version is hidden in Zero Mission someplace...also, there's a fan remake of Metroid II in the works), but Super Metroid definitely comes recommended (though there are a handful of passageways that are a pain to discover without a guide in there, as well). Not sure if you're interested in the Prime spinoffs, but as someone who doesn't play FPS games I rather enjoyed the GC versions (which are being packaged together with the third game, which I also haven't played, and re-released for the Wii over the next month or two) - be aware that both of them make you wander around a lot at the very end, though, which I found annoying.

Not exactly related, but Metroid Prime Pinball on the DS is actually pretty neat too.

[Limbrooke]

More recently I've heard people didn't like Metroid 2: Return of Samus (Game Boy) because it was linear, however I would say people should be more upset with Metroid Fusion as with navigator and essentially no real exploration until the end of the game makes MF feel far more linear and is lacking compared to M2. If you could explore at your will more often in MF it might be a better game, as such it's alright but definitely near the bottom in terms of the 2D games. The music too doesn't feel as right at times and the addition of ladders and removal the super missile are strange. I'm also not fond of the graphical style either although that's only a marginal issue, all things considered. Herr Schatten, you say SA-X is hard? Maybe if you attempt a battle before you engage it as the final boss, but as the final boss, it's not too challenging at all as all one needs to do is keep moving and take quick shots. The final form is even easier, requiring little movement at all.

Metroid Zero Mission seems to correct several issues in MF, which makes sense as it's a remake of a true Metroid game, the original, and since it's not an entirely new IP some adherence to the original formula must be considered, and it shows. MZM looks, sounds, feels, and runs like a Metroid game, much moreso than MF. The graphics are far more reminiscent of Super Metroid and the music is really inspired. Metroid the original is now far more accessible and more appealing and length aside, which is even slightly remedied by the expansion after the battle with Mother Brain, is a more true successor to SM. Nothing feels out of place and coming from SM, the bosses don't feel too much different either. I also like the aspect of Hard mode, strangely absent from MF NTSC-U/C / EUR, and the fact there are lots of unlockables, for a Metroid game. In the end there aren't many qualities I don't like about this game, pardon perhaps the design of Samus, and as such it's disappointing how sales of MZM were 1/2 of that for MF and in all likelihood thanks to some misleading reviews I suspect.

Super Metroid, after all is said and done, on my end, feels the most complete game to date. The length compared the the GBA games is better (longer) and any element of linearity is absent (95% at least). The game looks wonderful and is very atmospheric and nothing really feels out of place. Back-tracking in SM doesn't feel as tedious (example, MFs areas generally all seem to hit a dead end, requiring the user to go all the way back from which they came to progress = stifled/boring/unimaginative) or profilic as other games, although with the element of directions all but gone back-tracking is inescapable thanks to the searching element that is ever present. Since you haven't played SM I cannot really speak to any extent beyond that as to eliminate any possible spoilers. All the same it's a high recommendation if you own a Super Nintendo as the years of development really show (as if you did read the 2nd last RG special on SM, you'll see that Gunpei Yokoi the manager of the series up until SM, gave the game high praise and coming from him it says a lot).

Metroid 2: Return of Samus as briefly mentioned is linear although I find this element isn't as restrictive as in MF so it doesn't suffer the same fate. Unsurprisingly it's exactly what it should be, a significant upgrade to the original Metroid, which I personally feel is very stale, tedious, and hard to distinguish as far as progress/levels/areas are concerned. M2 adds saving, space jump, spider ball, and being able to aim up and it's all welcome and useful for the game. Given the low colour palette, some areas can be tough to distinguish but it's nowhere near the scope that is found in the original. If you run the game on GBA, GB Player, GBC or SGB (best to least) the problem isn't so bad but on GB/GBL/GBP an individual has more reason to complain. The atmosphere and music again feel right at home with Ryohji Yoshitomi at the composers helm (possibly the only game he worked on). This is a great game and even if it's a little limited it still shows quality that the next title, SM, exudes in great quantities.

I cannot comment much on Metroid as I don't really enjoy it and only picked it up many years later and just couldn't enjoy it. Not with fare like Super Metroid and even Metroid 2 around. Not to mention there's no true way of saving pardon dying and you have a challenging game ahead in terms of enjoyment. The formula has been improved so much it's hard to go back. Thankfully MZM has a save worthy version of Metroid so if I could recommend any version it would be that. Metroid Prime has it too.

[moozooh]

Metroid series has always been one of my favorites, and it's a big accomplishment in 2D gameplay, but it's largely a merit of SM alone.

NES Metroid defined some of the distinct gameplay mechanics and formulas (including many of the core items, like Morphball or Bomb), as well as a contiguous map that could be traversed in any way. However, it hasn't aged well, and its glaring design and programming issues are really obvious now. It's not a bad game at all as far as NES games go, but it's easily the weakest game in the series at this point.

Metroid 2, on the other hand, brought immersive atmosphere, as well as more advanced platforming and shooting, into the gameplay equation. In regards to level design, sounds, music, and game objectives, it was nearly flawless: it emphasized on exploration way better than the initial game. The only problem I see with it at this point is that the map is huge — it's easy to get lost on the first playthrough(s)! — yet the amount of enemies per room is often low enough to bore you. However, it redeems itself on subsequent playthroughs, as you learn better routes and discard items you don't need to complete the game.

Super Metroid is in my opinion worth every word of praise said about it. It further refined the atmosphere, introduced massive breakthroughs to platforming, and really showed what clever level design is. Speed Booster alone was such a classy item it made every other platformer look ridiculously slow-paced by comparison. The amount of both announced and hidden tricks and sequence breaks put into the game seemed astronomical at the time — and I don't remember any other game that enjoyed so many new discoveries a decade after release. That includes numerous glitches that, unlike with many other games, only made it more interesting for high-level play. And it's high-level play where the game's potential really unfolds! It really becomes obvious then that the game's difficulty scales very nicely with the player's goals, and remains consistent throughout. I STRONGLY recommend playing it through at least 1-2 times before watching any speedruns or other tech demos, though.

Fusion was Nintendo's lame attempt to enforce a solid path through the game. It also introduced the awful handholding aspect of the gameplay that nearly killed the atmosphere of exploration. What finished it completely, though, was the complete uselessness of energy/ammo expansions, which only made the game piss easy as a result. If you pick up as many as ~30% of missiles found in the game, you could just spam every boss you encounter without any effort. Platforming aspect — probably the strongest part of any Metroid game — largely remained intact but was noticeably dumbed down by adapting to GBA's small screen and low button count. As a result, a lot of dynamics was lost, and some tricks (single-wall walljumping, bombjumping, etc.) became hard or impossible. However, by shifting the focus towards shooting and story progression, they managed to retain much of the enjoyment for casual gameplay, and high-level gameplay was built mainly around low item count. SA-X encounters were also a nice change of pace (I think they are my favorite part of the game, actually).

Zero Mission, on the other hand, was Nintendo's somewhat awkward excuse for Fusion's linearity. Many old techniques made a comeback, and the map had several possible sequences again… I feel they really overdid it at this point, because the gameplay was still dumbed down compared to the first three installments: all routes were similar in difficulty, tricks became easier to do as well, and bosses still pose no challenge unless you purposefully go for low item count. I still feel it's better than Fusion in almost every respect, though (except design, especially in-game art), and I rate it #2 (see below) among 2D Metroid games, followed closely by Metroid 2. Replayability is a major factor here.

One more game I would like to name here is an unofficial one. It's a hack named Metroid: Redesign. Actually, this is the only Metroid-related game apart from SM that addressed every one of its weak points and brought along a lot of advantages, including those seen in GBA Metroids. Many people dislike it for high difficulty (in every respect), different physics and ridiculous map size (about six times that of SM's), but personally, I feel it's the only Metroid game that could rival SM's greatness.

[Dragoforce]

The Metroid games are definitely my favorites when it comes to Nintendo. I think most people like them because the challenge is quite moderate (except the aforementioned SA-X fight in fusion) they're packed with secrets and have an awesome atmosphere. Super Metroid is by far the best game in the series, having perfected all the points I just mentioned. Metroid II is probably the weakest game, mainl because of hardware limitations and the fact that it's sort of based around checkpoints rather than the sense of freedom which defines the other games.

Concerning the Prime games my views are the same as Bulletmagnets. I never been an FPS-man myself, but I really enjoyed the first two games. The third game I have not tried, mainly because of the Wii format.

[ZacharyB]

I really enjoyed the metroid games, but I disliked the way the stories became less and less transparent. I enjoy the aspect of "you, a planet, and a thing you have to find and kill inside the planet" and the games started to abandon this aspect in favor of character depth and mission objective. I feel like this was necessary for the games to survive in a modern marketplace, but it limits the games' accessibility. Samus was no longer an avatar of the player--she was her own character and you just guided her around.

The first Metroid was almost like a side-scrolling Zelda. Come to think of it, even in the Legend of Zelda, you were kind of allowed to forget you were running around in order to rescue a princess, and could just sit back and enjoy the depth of the game world and the puzzles of its labyrinths. Not so any longer for most genres.

[Skykid]

Metroid is some sexy game design.

[KindGrind]

Super Metroid is bar none my favourite game ever, so I can't but comment on this without exaggerating...

I STRONGLY recommend playing it through at least 1-2 times before watching any speedruns or other tech demos, though.

Piece of advice of the week. Do, do play Super Metroid on your own before you attempt to "play it faster", let alone speedrun it. It's an extremely well-crafted game that deserves to be played slowly at first to fully savour its balanced gameplay, great bgm and excellent visuals. I concur with the others on pretty much all they said.

I felt the GBA games were "on rails"... while SM and MP were pretty open once you lean a trick or two.

Metroid Prime is the second best game of the series in my opinion. Once you played it through once, you can discover how beautifully broken a game it is. I think you're lucky in a way you've never played the game. I wish I could play it again for the first time.

Edit: About the thirst installment of prime... It's vastly superior to MP2 tedious backtracking and overlong "checkpoint" quest. The whole game feels like the fetch quest of MP1. The control scheme in MP3 is excellent, the new abilities are quite interesting. The game could have insluded a couple more locales... but I'm nitpicking.

[Jockel]

Play Super Metroid, it's fucking brilliant and one of the best games of all time /thread
*btw i have a used copy you can have for cheap

[CMoon]

Not sure if you're interested in the Prime spinoffs, but as someone who doesn't play FPS games I rather enjoyed the GC versions (which are being packaged together with the third game, which I also haven't played, and re-released for the Wii over the next month or two) - be aware that both of them make you wander around a lot at the very end, though, which I found annoying.

Any word on whether they are reconfiguring Prime for the Wii or if its just a repackaging of the GC version? The first Prime I thought was a beautiful game but never finished it. A more intuitive wii control scheme would only make it tastier.

[KindGrind]

Will include Wii motion controls for the first 2 games. An amazing package...

[Cthulhu]

The only two Metroid games I'd say you don't really need to play anymore are the NES original and the GB one (Metroid 2: Return of Samus). I'll agree with the prior statements that the first one was amazing for its time but hasn't aged well. 2 for the GB is a better game but the viewable area onscreen is waaaaaay too small, and despite improvements to the core game, I don't think most people would have much fun with it anymore.

The rest are great. Enjoy.

PS: Metroid Pinball is just okay. Not quite a must-play either.

[BulletMagnet]

Will include Wii motion controls for the first 2 games. An amazing package...

Also widescreen support IIRC.

[CMoon]

Will include Wii motion controls for the first 2 games. An amazing package...

Also widescreen support IIRC.

GAWWWDAAAMMMNNN!!!!

[lgb]

Super Metroid is considered the best 2D game, while all others are "good".

I personally find the second Metroid Prime to be the best Prime game, but I have not played 3 or Hunters.

"Buster runs" are hard hard hard.

2D Castlevania games (SotN and onward) might even be better in the 2D department, but your mileage may vary.

[Herr Schatten]

Thanks for the answers so far. Keep'em coming.

I actually didn't really mind the linearity of the two GBA titles. I think there was still plenty of exploration and puzzle-solving. I did find it annoying, though, that Fusion didn't just point the player in the direction he had to go next (like ZM did), but actually sealed all the other sectors. That was a bit lame.

I'll give the original a try once I've unlocked it by beating ZM.
I'm not overly interested in the Prime games, because I don't play FPSs, but since other non-FPS-players have recommended them, I might try the games nonetheless.

Jockel, is your copy of SM complete with box and manual?

[Jockel]

Jockel, is your copy of SM complete with box and manual?

No. What do you think why it's cheap?

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

SM has basically unbeatable atmosphere and music, but there's too much backtracking going through it the orthodox way. The first time through it feels tedious since you'll be going up and down every nook and cranny of the planet looking for that path to progress. The first time I played it I thought it was quite boring since I got stuck for hours not knowing where to go, and there's absolutely no hints on where to go next. Also, it will sound like blasphemy, but I think the game could've benefited from some teleporters here and there. The pacing of the game would've been so much better.

[ncp]

There's something about the Metroid series that I love, but when I mention it to other people they don't seem to follow. That is the feeling of isolation in the Metroid games. I always felt like the Metroid games all had a sort of lonely and depressing tone to them, being alone in a dark, underground (sometimes confusing and repetitive) maze with absolutely no allies, not to mention the music. It manages to achieve this isolation feeling without being stupid and "grimdark", and it's not an unpleasant feeling either, serving to add to the mysteriousness. Curious how many of you guys notice this?

As for individual games, I'm surprised to see so little support for the original Metroid. I don't think it aged badly, personally. It's still my second favorite Metroid, and its "remake" Zero Mission doesn't have the same feel to it. Also, having no in-game map adds a strange challenge to it. Metroid 2 was pretty weak, as was Fusion. Super Metroid, like everyone else said, is the best, not much left to say. Prime series is a very good 3D take on the series although to me they still seem to be separate series. The "isolation" I mentioned before was very well done in Prime, and the graphics are fantastic.

edit: I'm pretty skeptical about the next game, seeing as they said it would go into samus' "story". Lol? There never was and never should be any emphasis on backstory for Samus, hell, she's only female for fanservice purposes anyway. I don't think her name was even mentioned in the original Metroid (it's rarely mentioned in any of the games, for that matter).

edit 2: I think the backtracking is a defining feature of the series, and there is by no means too much of it in Super Metroid. Teleporters? Screw that.

[moozooh]

I think the problem of NES Metroid lies within its technical limitations more than direction. It's chock-full of lag-ridden visually-identical rooms, enemies just wander around aimlessly, there is very little to be said about level design, and you can't even shoot downward (which proves to be a significant disadvantage since some enemies go below your beam). Metroid 2 addressed all of this beautifully and preserved the atmosphere even better with its excellent music and detailed (for GB) graphics, which is why I consider it superior in every respect. The only thing it lacks is Kraid theme from the original game. :D

[Dragoforce]

The only thing it lacks is Kraid theme from the original game.

And Kraid himself The last boss is a little strange though?

[moozooh]

Strange in what way?

I like that you can damage it differently from just shooting in the face, btw, that was really clever.

[Ed Oscuro]

The Metroid games tend to be long on running and backtracking, and short on action, sad to say.

The last 2D Metroid games I played (the GBA ones) were starting to suffer from feature fat. Fusion would be a pretty pure experience without the damned storyline, and Zero Mission has that incredibly stupid and useless sequence later in...y'all know the one.

I've skipped playing all the way through the original and II, both are just too primitive for me. Played SM, Fusion, Zero Mission, almost all of Prime.

(That reminds me to see about flipping that Metroid II I bought sealed some years ago...wonder if I could break even on it now? )

2D Castlevania games (SotN and onward) might even be better in the 2D department, but your mileage may vary.

GRAPHICS OMGGGGggg

All in all, the Castletroids / Metroid games seem more or less arcade games for kids with bad reflexes. No payoff for repeated plays especially on the Metroid games, although on second thought the CVs seem to do better in that department (I know people who still like playing Circle of the Moon, for instance; the Fighter and Magician modes would extend the game a bit.)

[moozooh]

Castlevanias (except SotN) require less technical effort in high-level play.

Actually, Ed, I think you've never tried playing Metroid games for speed; the in-game timer was there since the beginning for that exact reason.

[Limbrooke]

I actually didn't really mind the linearity of the two GBA titles. I think there was still plenty of exploration and puzzle-solving. I did find it annoying, though, that Fusion didn't just point the player in the direction he had to go next (like ZM did), but actually sealed all the other sectors. That was a bit lame.

Uh, what? You didn't mind them being linear yet you find the fact the MF was leading the user by the hand and essentially forcing them to where they had to go for 90% of the game lame? Make up your mind. ZM at least only showed the user a general area (provided they used the sometimes mandatory Chozo statues) rather than say "yeah, go to chamber 3, it's the only place you can go, go the end then go to chamber 4, only chamber 4, trust me, you cannot go anywhere else".

SM has basically unbeatable atmosphere and music, but there's too much backtracking going through it the orthodox way. The first time through it feels tedious since you'll be going up and down every nook and cranny of the planet looking for that path to progress. The first time I played it I thought it was quite boring since I got stuck for hours not knowing where to go, and there's absolutely no hints on where to go next. Also, it will sound like blasphemy, but I think the game could've benefited from some teleporters here and there. The pacing of the game would've been so much better.

Blasphemy, I don't think so. The first time I tried to beat/clear Super Metroid was in an emulator and without a controller. It was doomed from the start. At times it felt frustrating but perhaps due to the fact I had never really played any games like this before it. Upon completion I had a different look and in the 2nd effort was much enjoyable and really felt like it flowed better. So I sympathize with your feelings. Of course teleporters be damned, it's fine as it is. However, these exact same feelings are amplified in SM Remake. In my opinion it's extremely boring not much to look at. I feel as though it simply rides on the coattails of SM. I mean, it's SM, but different in an effort to feed the cravings of people wanting more SM but I believe missing the mark. At least it does nothing for me.

And Kraid himself The last boss is a little strange though?

Yeah, given that Kraid or any of space pirates are noticably absent from M2, it's not surprising that the theme for Kraid himself is lacking.

Also, yeah, it's really strange how the final boss of M2, a game entirely about Metroids is... you guessed it, another Metroid.

I've skipped playing all the way through the original and II, both are just too primitive for me.

Your loss. Comparing M2 to M is like night and day, if any game is too primitive it's the first game. If there's one flaw that for me that is inescapable in M2 it's that there is no map, which some huge areas and some areas of hard distinction make it slightly more tedious than it should be.

[Herr Schatten]

Uh, what? You didn't mind them being linear yet you find the fact the MF was leading the user by the hand and essentially forcing them to where they had to go for 90% of the game lame? Make up your mind.

I don't see a contradiction here. I'm fine with being pointed in the direction I have to go next. I just found it unnecessary to actually bar the player from going elsewhere. I think we are in agreement that ZMs way of leading the player is much better than the constant hand-holding in Fusion.

[Ed Oscuro]

Actually, Ed, I think you've never tried playing Metroid games for speed; the in-game timer was there since the beginning for that exact reason.

I'm aware many people try to invent ways to make the games more fun. That's not for me.

I've skipped playing all the way through the original and II, both are just too primitive for me.

Your loss.

No, I don't think so.

Comparing M2 to M is like night and day, if any game is too primitive it's the first game.

Still too primitive. Mostly empty rooms and four-direction shooting OH YEAAAAH I CAN FEEL THE EXCITEMENT

[Limbrooke]

I don't see a contradiction here. I'm fine with being pointed in the direction I have to go next. I just found it unnecessary to actually bar the player from going elsewhere. I think we are in agreement that ZMs way of leading the player is much better than the constant hand-holding in Fusion.

Limiting where the user must go and then telling them they must go to a specific area... yeah that's linear game-play at it's finest. It seems then you don't like the cut & dry of complete linearity, so nothing in excess which is fair enough. In the end, MF for me is killed by the fact sequence breaking is almost eliminated and to a normal user I'd say replayability (on non-NTSC-J copies anyway) is non-existant thanks to almost nothing that is guaranteed to change from run to run. I'm not saying people won't persue it as it's obvious by a quick look on youtube that many people have found faster alternative routes through it. That's hardly the majority though.

No, I don't think so.

Hmm, you sure aren't gaining anything unless by some form of osmosis. This reminds me of another person who often used that phrase.
Got proof?

It's a little disappointing seeing Metroid 2 called primative from the maintainer of the Scramble (Mostly empty rooms and four[whoops]-direction shooting OH YEAAAAH I CAN FEEL THE EXCITEMENT) high-score board. All the same I suppose it's just a little confusing on my end seeing M2 called as such when again in comparison to the game it succeeds it's almost not the same game at all. I know it gets a bad rap but I think it's mainly by word of mouth rather than via direct exposure. Ah well, can't convert them all. In a similar move to Mr Shadow, at least we are in agreement about how Thunder Dragon 2 kicks ass.

[moozooh]

I'm aware many people try to invent ways to make the games more fun. That's not for me.

So, let me get this straight. You play games with score counter for score challenge, and it's normal and natural for you. You don't play games with timers and item counters for time and item count challenges because you consider it an artificial way to make the game more fun.

Um.

What.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Actually the game just becomes the more fun after watching speed runs. They show you pretty good tricks to avoid a lot of backtracking.