More Hope for a Ketsui Port

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:21 pm

neojima: next time you make sense and post something reasonable and informed, ill ban you.

keep you mounth shut and say "sony sux DC rulez" like we all do, thanks for your cooperation.

(kidding)

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:22 pm

Metal Gear Okt wrote: I got it for $10 at Bestbuy, and the dozen or so hours I've put into it are worthwhile. It basically tears down all of the video game RPG conventions that we've become used to since Dragon Warrior, and basically re-starts from D&D. Dungeons involve moving a "piece" that represents your party one space at a time. Every time you reach a new space, you can use party skills to disarm traps and find treasure. Occasionally, you'll encounter monsters. You have hit points, which you recover by resting a turn, but they're merely a buffer for your "life points", which can only be refilled in town. You don't even "level up" as much as earn new skills and refine your equipment after each dungeon. Also, it's brutally hard and short on save points. If you have an open mind, it's totally worth it.

Thanks for the write-up's.

Mushihimesama is running on Type-X instead of a Cave PCB, right? I figured they'd put that extra power to some use.

Nope. It uses an SH3-based custom PCB which outputs the picture at 15 kHz.

Metal Gear Okt · Post by **Metal Gear Okt** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:25 pm

Recap wrote:

Mushihimesama is running on Type-X instead of a Cave PCB, right? I figured they'd put that extra power to some use.
Nope. It uses an SH3-based custom PCB which outputs the picture at 15 kHz.

Hmm.. I remember some people being worried about Mushi because the port of GWG turned out so poorly.

Anyway, graphically, how does it compare to, say, DOJ or ESPGaluda?

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:32 pm

Metal Gear Okt wrote:
Hmm.. I remember some people being worried about Mushi because the port of GWG turned out so poorly.

That was because there is a stupidly extended idea about Taito having ported Yoku Shin to the PS2.

Anyway, graphically, how does it compare to, say, DOJ or ESPGaluda

Vids I saw showed incredible background/bosses animation and a number of on-screen sprites clearly beyond to the ones of those games. That's why Mihara didn't want to port the game by himself.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:40 pm

The vagrant wrote:neojima: next time you make sense and post something reasonable and informed, ill ban you.

keep you mounth shut and say "sony sux DC rulez" like we all do, thanks for your cooperation.

(kidding)

Crow: "Not a joke but an incredible simulation!"

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:47 pm

neojma wrote: SCEJ hasn't ever been very anti-2D.

Sure. 'Cause we can count those many 2D games for the PS2 made by them.

black mariah · Post by **black mariah** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:04 pm

Recap wrote:
neojma wrote: SCEJ hasn't ever been very anti-2D.
Sure. 'Cause we can count those many 2D games for the PS2 made by them.

Disinterest != hatred

With Nintendo's increased interest in small developers, the Revolution (or whatever it's going to be called) will be the future choice for shmups.

You can quote me if you like.

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:05 pm

arent we stretching the definition of what "anti 2D" is?

from gfaqs, known developped games by SCEI

PlayStation 2

Ape Escape 2
Ape Escape: Pumped & Primed
Bombastic
ChainDive
Dokodemo Issho: Toro to Nagare Boshi
Fantavision
Flipnic
Hungry Ghosts
Kumauta
LifeLine
Mojib-Ribbon
Otostaz
Phase Paradox
Pipo Saru 2001
Poinie's Poin
Saru EyeToy
Seigi no Mikata
Siren
Sky Gunner
Sky Odyssey
Space Fishermen
Surveillance
Wanda and the Colossus
Wild Arms Alter Code: F
Wild Arms: The 4th Detonator

(doesnt include SCEA's stuff)

to tell the truth, i dont know most of these games, so i cant tell if they're 2D, but you get the point.

sony, as a developper, is kinda shite anyway, last sony game i played and somewhat enjoyed was wild arms 1 on the ps1, but we're not really discussing sony's talents as a developper.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:53 pm

The vagrant wrote:
to tell the truth, i dont know most of these games, so i cant tell if they're 2D, but you get the point.

I can tell you, though, that the closest thing to a 2D game SCE has published is Parappa 2. Oh well, and Fantavision.

sony, as a developper, is kinda shite anyway, last sony game i played and somewhat enjoyed was wild arms 1 on the ps1, but we're not really discussing sony's talents as a developper.

SCE published lots of stunning games for the PS, and not only RPG's. On the PS2 they only have polluted the catalogue of their own system.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:21 pm

Ghegs wrote:
Wanderer wrote:
zakk wrote: This isn't a case of Sony holding some sort of anti-2d stance, this is just a matter of them preferring to give the "scarce" dev kits to developers who are more likely to produce a game that sells well. And a port of Ketsui would not 'sell well' by those standards. Hence they wait.
Well Ketsui would not sell well because it's 2-D and looks like it's 15 years old. Not giving up the DEV kits because Ketsui would not sell well is still an anti-2D stance.
Put down the torch and look at this objectively. With three new systems on the way, every company wants their console's launch games to look stunning to entice the public. Having a launch title looking like something from 10 years ago would be a PR horror.

Besides, it's an unwritten rule that launch titles always look gorgeus but the gameplay is only so-so at best.

Exactly; for the MILLIONTH time, shmups are NOT mainstream anymore people. I wish they were, but if you want that, get an SNES and a Genesis.

I seriously doubt ANY of the next 3 consoles will get ANY domestic shmup ports, and very few import shmup ports.

Although I would take issue with the "unwritten rule"; I just got Super Mario 64, and it's AWESOME platformer-and I'm pretty sure that was a launch title.

Metal Gear Okt · Post by **Metal Gear Okt** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:22 am

Recap wrote:
The vagrant wrote:
to tell the truth, i dont know most of these games, so i cant tell if they're 2D, but you get the point.
I can tell you, though, that the closest thing to a 2D game SCE has published is Parappa 2. Oh well, and Fantavision.

sony, as a developper, is kinda shite anyway, last sony game i played and somewhat enjoyed was wild arms 1 on the ps1, but we're not really discussing sony's talents as a developper.
SCE published lots of stunning games for the PS, and not only RPG's. On the PS2 they only have polluted the catalogue of their own system.

SCEA/I has put out a few decent games. God of War, Dark Cloud 2, the Gran Turismos, The Ratchet & Clank games, and War of the Monsters immediately spring to mind.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:45 am

Metal Gear Okt wrote: SCEA/I has put out a few decent games. God of War, Dark Cloud 2, the Gran Turismos, The Ratchet & Clank games, and War of the Monsters immediately spring to mind.

I'm sorry, but besides the Gran Turismos (which I personally don't like, either) all those games are tragic.

Metal Gear Okt · Post by **Metal Gear Okt** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:49 am

Recap wrote:
Metal Gear Okt wrote: SCEA/I has put out a few decent games. God of War, Dark Cloud 2, the Gran Turismos, The Ratchet & Clank games, and War of the Monsters immediately spring to mind.
I'm sorry, but besides the Gran Turismos (which I personally don't like, either) all those games are tragic.

Did you play God of War? It was fan-fucking-tastic.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:28 pm

Recap wrote:
Metal Gear Okt wrote: SCEA/I has put out a few decent games. God of War, Dark Cloud 2, the Gran Turismos, The Ratchet & Clank games, and War of the Monsters immediately spring to mind.
I'm sorry, but besides the Gran Turismos (which I personally don't like, either) all those games are tragic.

Not really.

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:58 pm

I wish the old forum hadn't been flushed down the toilet of time because it would be so fun to go back and see the arguments about PS2 on this same subject. Just about everyone called bullshit on that system getting ANY shmups, and now it's seriously giving the Saturn a run for its money. Sony's systems have always been grab-bags of variety... some good, a bunch of bad. I think we'll see more shmups than most people expect. If PS3 is as popular as PS2 has been (and shmups keep coming out in the arcade) then the well won't run dry just yet.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:32 pm

8 1/2 wrote:I wish the old forum hadn't been flushed down the toilet of time because it would be so fun to go back and see the arguments about PS2 on this same subject. Just about everyone called bullshit on that system getting ANY shmups, and now it's seriously giving the Saturn a run for its money. Sony's systems have always been grab-bags of variety... some good, a bunch of bad. I think we'll see more shmups than most people expect. If PS3 is as popular as PS2 has been (and shmups keep coming out in the arcade) then the well won't run dry just yet.

I was one of those people. You are very right that its selection for shmups is almost on par with the Saturn now, not too far away really. And I'm sure you can find some of the old posts floating out there if you want to get your system infected with spyware.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:43 pm

8 1/2 wrote:I wish the old forum hadn't been flushed down the toilet of time because it would be so fun to go back and see the arguments about PS2 on this same subject. Just about everyone called bullshit on that system getting ANY shmups, and now it's seriously giving the Saturn a run for its money. Sony's systems have always been grab-bags of variety... some good, a bunch of bad. I think we'll see more shmups than most people expect. If PS3 is as popular as PS2 has been (and shmups keep coming out in the arcade) then the well won't run dry just yet.

Yeah, and how many of those shmups have been US releases? About 4, I think?

I'll be surprised if 1 shows up on the US PS3. Sony's consoles have been grab bags of variety, but even in Japan, expecting a shmup that's already got some years on it to be released very soon after the JPS3 release date is naive, IMO. Read Gheg's quote again.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:51 pm

dave4shmups wrote:
8 1/2 wrote:I wish the old forum hadn't been flushed down the toilet of time because it would be so fun to go back and see the arguments about PS2 on this same subject. Just about everyone called bullshit on that system getting ANY shmups, and now it's seriously giving the Saturn a run for its money. Sony's systems have always been grab-bags of variety... some good, a bunch of bad. I think we'll see more shmups than most people expect. If PS3 is as popular as PS2 has been (and shmups keep coming out in the arcade) then the well won't run dry just yet.
Yeah, and how many of those shmups have been US releases? About 4, I think?

I'll be surprised if 1 shows up on the US PS3. Sony's consoles have been grab bags of variety, but even in Japan, expecting a shmup that's already got some years on it to be released very soon after the JPS3 release date is naive, IMO. Read Gheg's quote again.

Who here is expecting a bunch of shmups on the U.S. PS3???

shariar07 · Post by **shariar07** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:17 pm

I would like it better if they would release a straight port on PS2 rather than PS3, I only care about the game mode, i don;t care about gallary or replay mode or ect. Just give me that game mode thats all i want. Also for me PS2 is going to be my last game console, as i'm gettting too busy with other things in my life.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:43 pm

Dylan1CC wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:
8 1/2 wrote:I wish the old forum hadn't been flushed down the toilet of time because it would be so fun to go back and see the arguments about PS2 on this same subject. Just about everyone called bullshit on that system getting ANY shmups, and now it's seriously giving the Saturn a run for its money. Sony's systems have always been grab-bags of variety... some good, a bunch of bad. I think we'll see more shmups than most people expect. If PS3 is as popular as PS2 has been (and shmups keep coming out in the arcade) then the well won't run dry just yet.
Yeah, and how many of those shmups have been US releases? About 4, I think?

I'll be surprised if 1 shows up on the US PS3. Sony's consoles have been grab bags of variety, but even in Japan, expecting a shmup that's already got some years on it to be released very soon after the JPS3 release date is naive, IMO. Read Gheg's quote again.
Who here is expecting a bunch of shmups on the U.S. PS3???

I didn't say anyone was, I was just pointing out there are hardly any that were released for the PS2, in response to the comment that people didn't expect any-well, domestically speaking, we hardly got any.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:46 pm

shariar07 wrote:I would like it better if they would release a straight port on PS2 rather than PS3, I only care about the game mode, i don;t care about gallary or replay mode or ect. Just give me that game mode thats all i want. Also for me PS2 is going to be my last game console, as i'm gettting too busy with other things in my life.

Yeah, but to sell a 3 to 4-year old 2D game they'll have to have the extras... especially for those that either played it to death in the arcade or own the PCB.

AngelFish · Post by **AngelFish** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:56 pm

Is this Game worth getting a Japanese Ps2 for?

Thanks in Advance - Angel

D · Post by D » Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:28 pm

Recap wrote:The 360 won't have true low res video modes.

How do YOU know that?

Anyway, relax fellas 2D will live. Shmups will live.

I remember just before Shikigami No Shiro came out on the X-Box. 2D and shmups seemed to be death. No more. We will survive. Have faith all!

highlandcattle · Post by **highlandcattle** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:09 pm

Metal Gear Okt wrote:
Balzac wrote:
Ghegs wrote: A better example would be Silpheed, which was the best looking shmup by far when it came out, but it played like crap.

G3&4 wasn't at launch, but it was released shortly afterwards.

It was a laung title in Europe and a week after the Japan launch or something like that

Post by **system11** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:08 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
shariar07 wrote:I would like it better if they would release a straight port on PS2 rather than PS3, I only care about the game mode, i don;t care about gallary or replay mode or ect. Just give me that game mode thats all i want. Also for me PS2 is going to be my last game console, as i'm gettting too busy with other things in my life.
Yeah, but to sell a 3 to 4-year old 2D game they'll have to have the extras... especially for those that either played it to death in the arcade or own the PCB.

No, not really. The type of person who will buy this game wants the arcade game, the extras are just that - they're not going to lose sales without them.

As for Mushi being harder to port than Galuda - I don't see it myself. It /is/ true that mushi pushes more bullets, and moves some nice background and boss parts around. However, it's very similar hardware, and what people DON'T mention is that Mushi is absolutely full of slowdown during these sections, in arcade form.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:58 pm

No, not really. The type of person who will buy this game wants the arcade game, the extras are just that - they're not going to lose sales without them.

If they were only counting on the type of person that would want that game, they'd probably not even get close to breaking even. They need spillover into some not-so-hardcore fans, and those that have played the game to death. If it was a year old, sure. It's 4 years old though.

The install base that would buy a game like this if it was new is too small to not throw in extras to get more people to buy it. ESPGaluda was 6-8 months old when the port was released. Had some great extra modes, and still only sold 10,000 copies.

Not to mention Sony's ideas of releasing old games w/o something extra on them.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:38 pm

D wrote:
How do YOU know that?

Kidding, right? I'm the great Recap!

Anyway, relax fellas 2D will live. Shmups will live.

I remember just before Shikigami No Shiro came out on the X-Box. 2D and shmups seemed to be death. No more. We will survive. Have faith all!

They're already dead. They were killed by those who think that Raiden III's visuals are "fine" enough and by those who can't distinguish between fake and true low res displays.

As for Mushi being harder to port than Galuda - I don't see it myself. It /is/ true that mushi pushes more bullets, and moves some nice background and boss parts around. However, it's very similar hardware,

How a 68000-based hardware can be "similar" to an SH3-based one?

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:52 pm

Recap wrote: They were killed by those who think that Raiden III's visuals are "fine" enough and by those who can't distinguish between fake and true low res displays.

Go tell those kids to get off your damn lawn.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:37 am

Dandy J wrote: Go tell those kids to get off your damn lawn.

I prefer to teach them how to sit properly on it. They enjoy the stance much better then.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:26 am

No, not really. The type of person who will buy this game wants the arcade game, the extras are just that - they're not going to lose sales without them.

Quote from Mihara's blog. You can go read the longer version over at Click Stick.

Ketsui has a barrier preventing it from being ported that make it more difficult than anyone can imagine. It is NOT like ESPGaluda orr DOJ. In short, if I can't make a product that meets [customers] expectations, it won't sell.

He aludes that a plain old Arcade port (no extras or nothing... not even stage select) is probably possible, but prohibitively difficult.... then goes on to state how the price is pretty much determined regardless of costs involved, and how you need features to sell the game, which would make the port "impossible" on the PS2.