Another day, another killing by a right wing fringe group

[The n00b]

I remember when Homeland Security warned us about the rise of right wing extremists contributing to crime in America. Well now there's yet another one. A minuteman-type and a guy with ties to Aryan groups murdered a father and his daughter in a home invasion. Both were shot in the head..

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/23/ari ... index.html

The minutemen can regularly be seen goose stepping all over the southern United States. They are kind of like the border area's answer to the klan only instead of hanging out in the woods, they get drunk out in the desert. Anyway after the holocaust museum shooting, the abortion doctor getting murdered, and now this it seems like things are getting a little crazier around here.

[BulletMagnet]

The thing to remember here, methinks, is how absolutely incredulous most of the conservative talking heads were when they first got wind of the report you mention - they, ironically enough, held it aloft as "evidence" that the Obama administration was out to "get them" and completely silence them (although, if memory serves, the study was actually begun under the Bush administration, and was accompanied by a similar look at far-left radicals).

And of course nobody is taking the least bit of responsibility for calling the church shooting victim a "baby killer" with "blood on his hands" (even after he was gunned down) or insisting that Obama is going to take everyone's guns away (although, again, if memory serves, he hasn't even mentioned anything about gun control) and systematically marginalize white males in any way possible (again, hard evidence of this is never, ever cited). After all, it's all just "opinion," and however anybody else ends up interpreting (or acting upon) what I say isn't my fault - and any liberal communist sissy-fag who disagrees ought to be strung up and burned alive.

[Ed Oscuro]

every bit as beautiful as I had imagined O_O

Kinda funny this happens because this is a scenario I was envisioning... :S

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Wow, that's crazy.

[Twiddle]

The thing to remember here, methinks, is how absolutely incredulous most of the conservative talking heads were when they first got wind of the report you mention - they, ironically enough, held it aloft as "evidence" that the Obama administration was out to "get them" and completely silence them (although, if memory serves, the study was actually begun under the Bush administration, and was accompanied by a similar look at far-left radicals).

This goes beyond politics into full-blown subhumanism

[The n00b]

The minutemen organizations are trying to distance themselves from this killing and are saying crap about how these people were rogue elements. I don't buy that crap for a second. Anyone who's seen them at their rallies knows better.

It makes me sick that somewhere out in the desert, some minutemen are getting drunk in celebration of this event.

[evil_ash_xero]

Stuff like this makes me wonder about the human race.

I hope they crack down on these motherfuckers.

Shooting a defenseless man is bad enough, but then shooting his 9 year old daughter in the head...I mean, what the fuck? Barbarism.

[Udderdude]

The moment some crazy goes off like this, all the usual hate-spewing, vitriol-slinging ratings whores start denouncing it. They know they were pouring fuel on the fire, and they try and claim otherwise. It's pretty pathetic, really.

[GaijinPunch]

What a bunch of dipshits.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

As the ol' saying goes: If you can find time to do the crime, you have time to serve for the crime. Unless it warrants the death penalty for special extenuating circumstances (like in Scott Peterson's case with killing his wife and unborn son). So be it.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[BulletMagnet]

The moment some crazy goes off like this, all the usual hate-spewing, vitriol-slinging ratings whores start denouncing it.

To be honest, much of the time they really don't, at least not in any remotely meaningful way. They take some minimal measure to "distance themselves" from whoever did it, but most notably in the shooting of the abortion doctor, they still made sure to call the victim a horrible person in any way possible even after the murder was committed. That is, if they don't simply ignore the occurrence and try to pretend that it never happened in the first place.

I think that at least some (repeat disclaimer - not all, but some) of those folks are honestly pleased when they see stuff like this happening, since it means that they can, through their devotees, carry out the sort of self-indulgent, vigilante "might makes right" actions that they like to use (instead of factually-based arguments) to mold the country to their liking, without taking any blame for it. Obviously I can't read minds, but considering how consistently they keep doing this, over and over again, every time the enactment of anything resembling progressive policy threatens to occur, I find it hard to imagine any other excuse for their actions.

[ncp]

It would appear that some people missed the

The Minutemen kicked Forde out of their ranks in 2007

I can't stay I approve of vigilantism or this sort of organization really, but why is everyone (= BulletMagnet) using this as an excuse to write paragraphs about how evil conservatives are?

The world is in no short supply of psychotic racist murderers but it really has less to do with politics and more to do with, well, being a psychotic racist murderer.

[GaijinPunch]

As the ol' saying goes: If you can find time to do the crime, you have time to serve for the crime.

I believe the original is far shorter.

but why is everyone (= BulletMagnet) using this as an excuse to write paragraphs about how evil conservatives are?

B/c conservatives are such nutbags.

[escadrille]

The world is in no short supply of psychotic racist murderers but it really has less to do with politics and more to do with, well, being a psychotic racist murderer.

Wouldn't it be quicker just to say "a conservative?"

I think that at least some (repeat disclaimer - not all, but some) of those folks are honestly pleased when they see stuff like this happening,

I agree completely. Being "a conservative" on the Internet basically means cheering for the death of whatever group isn't white, Christian, heterosexual, and conservative. During my last year of university I spent of bunch of time lurking in conservative forums, and it all blurred into one long fantasy hit list. This guy just acted out what the majority of them fantasize about.

[robthebanks]

smash the state

[ncp]

Your idea of "a conservative" is comparable saying liberals are all retarded homeless druggy communists.

Grow up, maybe?

[escadrille]

Your idea of "a conservative" is comparable saying liberals are all retarded homeless druggy communists.

Grow up, maybe?

Liberal ideologues are obnoxious, just for different reasons. Conservatism is all about being a budget tough guy, ranting about how all these people need to shape up or else die off (or be killed). Liberals are more about whining about everybody needing a helping hand on somebody else's dime. Different moral high horses, but both are a joke.

I stand by what I've said. In my experience conservatives are typically thrilled when non-white, non-Christian people get killed, and fantasize about more getting killed than already are.

[The n00b]

Conservatives don't seem to like criticizing their own extremists. They also enable their own extremist groups and then claim they did nothing of the sort. In contrast, the last left wing extremist killing involved a guy shooting up an Army recruiting station. He wasn't told to do this by the mainstream Democratic Party establishment. Nobody glorified this killing after wards either.

The killing of the abortion doctor was the most extreme example of this idiocy. His name and address was posted on many conservative sites. They were painting a bulls eye on him and they knew it. After the killing, they were quiet for a little bit and went right back to their bullshit of targeting abortion doctors and printing their names, addresses, and phone numbers.

Regarding this former minuteman member. Did the minutemen and the conservative establishment truly do enough by kicking her out of a minuteman group? Go to any minuteman meeting and you'll hear ideas like immigrants are killing white culture, Hispanics disrespect white women, Obama is a muslim who wants to take your guns away, and of course the liberal plot to hide Obama's birth certificate. This last one is promoted by none other than Rush Limbaugh. You say this irresponsible crap enough times and a mentally unstable person is bound to take it seriously.

[BulletMagnet]

Conservatives don't seem to like criticizing their own extremists. They also enable their own extremist groups and then claim they did nothing of the sort. In contrast, the last left wing extremist killing involved a guy shooting up an Army recruiting station. He wasn't told to do this by the mainstream Democratic Party establishment. Nobody glorified this killing after wards either.

I've got my own axe to grind with the "liberal establishment," but this more or less sums up why I'm more frequently critical of the modern conservative movement. There are some nutty far-left types out there, but when was the last time you saw a Communist or the like featured as a guest on a cable news talk show? On the flipside of the coin, count how many open racists (Pat Buchanan, anyone? On "liberal" MSNBC to boot!), hyper-moralizing hypocrites (Limbaugh, in particular, who was made an honorary Republican congressman if memory serves), militants (G. Gordon Liddy), not to mention the heaps and heaps of "analysts" and "experts" who have been so frequently discredited and caught in so many lies that they should never be given a media mouthpiece ever again (to whit, Karl Rove) who are not only given free reign over the airwaves and in print but are openly embraced by the conservative political establishment. Moderates and dissenting voices are almost always weeded out (how many apologies to Rush have been issued just over the past few months?), yet the only nut job you ever hear about on a regular basis is Reverend Wright, who's already been declared a pariah by the current administration and the left as a whole (but since not even we "fascist" liberals can make him shut up, he still gets coverage).

Sorry, but the whole "both sides do it!" cop-out just doesn't fly here.

[ncp]

I'm not going to start some retarded political argument on a shmup forum, since they rarely accomplish anything but a waste of time as both points of view are unlikely to change, so whatever bros, say what you will, but I will leave you with one thing: You should know that the vast majority of people who consider themselves "conservatives" do not approve of any illegal killing. The very small minority that would approve of unlawfully murdering an abortion doctor are those with an extreme "eye for an eye" mentality, because to them, abortion is no different than killing any other human being. When you hear about a mass murder on the news and think "he deserves the death penalty", congratulations, it's the same exact mentality. The only difference is that you don't consider a baby inside a woman to be a living person yet. And as far as "He wasn't told to do this by the mainstream Democratic Party establishment" implying that the Republican Party "told" ANYONE to kill somebody, give me a break, I know you're not that stupid. There's a huge difference between believing something is wrong and killing someone who does that something. Killing an abortion doctor is something of a self-righteous hypocrisy (killing someone because they killed someone, two wrongs does not make a right), but speaking out against abortion doctors is NOT the same as condoning murder...

[FRO]

Your idea of "a conservative" is comparable saying liberals are all retarded homeless druggy communists.

Grow up, maybe?

Thank you, I'm glad someone said it. We "conservatives" aren't all nutjobs, that's just how we're portrayed in the media.

[Ed Oscuro]

Liberal ideologues are obnoxious, just for different reasons.

No, the reasons are exactly the same. Leftists have killed people too.

[escadrille]

Liberal ideologues are obnoxious, just for different reasons.

No, the reasons are exactly the same. Leftists have killed people too.

I hope for your sake you're not into some Jonah Goldberg nonsense.


Anyway, you're not taking my meaning properly. I wasn't talking about killing, I was talking about ideologues from both camps riding different moral high horses. The entire paragraph makes this clear.

Thank you, I'm glad someone said it. We "conservatives" aren't all nutjobs, that's just how we're portrayed in the media.

If this is the case then "conservatives" should pick better spokesmen, because the most popular conservative media personalities are the most extreme and ridiculous, and somebody is buying all of those Ann Coulter books and tuning into Sean Hannity.

[Specineff]

I'm not going to start some retarded political argument on a shmup forum, since they rarely accomplish anything but a waste of time as both points of view are unlikely to change, so whatever bros, say what you will, but I will leave you with one thing: You should know that the vast majority of people who consider themselves "conservatives" do not approve of any illegal killing.

Unless, of course, the victim was black, asian, hispanic or native american.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[The n00b]

So when can we expect a denunciation of Rush Limbaugh and Pat Buchanan by the mainstream conservative establishment? You know one without a groveling apology soon after. Actually both these guys are fixtures on conservative media(uh oh I shot down the whole liberal/jewish media conspiracy that conservatives have going on).

About rationalizing the abortion doctor slaying... Hey I hear that guy killed at the recruiting station was really just part of a brainwashed army that undertook an invasion of an innocent country that killed thousands of civilians. He was probably just another baby eating fascist and when you do stuff like that you gotta expect blow back am I right? If you feel the same way I do, here's a list of army recruiters in your area along with their home addresses, home phone numbers, number of children, and where they go to school. See what I did there? Come on guys, nobody is stupid enough to think that line of reasoning is leading to gift baskets and Christmas cards. Both these killings were wrong and shouldn't be politicized. Too bad the Republican party is too concerned about losing votes rather than taking the moral high ground.

[ncp]

I would probably post a real reply if I thought you were capable of seeing anything objectively.

But I did get a kick out of the rather nonsensical first paragraph. And the fact that people are comparing right-wing talk radio hosts and newscasters to a psychotic racist murderer, as if that is anywhere near a valid comparison.

[BulletMagnet]

When you hear about a mass murder on the news and think "he deserves the death penalty", congratulations, it's the same exact mentality.

No it isn't. When a murderer is on the loose, the authorities look for him, arrest him, and try him based on the laws concerning murder - and if any believe that, for whatever reason, his actions were justified, they'll try to make their own case. In similar fashion, there have been legal fights over abortion, and there will be more of them - if you must know, my own views on abortion are relatively conservative, despite my frequently liberal leanings elsewhere. The difference between myself and those who call themselves "real" pro-lifers is that I don't believe that it's my God-given right to take matters into my own hands when someone else makes a decision that I don't personally agree with - in otherwords, I attempt to be a part of a functioning, if imperfect, society, as opposed to making my overwhelming goal in life the bending of others' existences to my own standards.

And yes, I'm very much aware that not all conservatives are into killing people. At the same time, though, I think that many who label themselves "conservative" are either inadvertently or willfully ignorant of a lot of the things their movement's leaders really stand for and work towards, and if they took a moment to look past the constant, formless rhetoric regarding "personal freedom" and "individual rights" and "sticking it to the man in Washington" they would find themselves in disagreement with a majority of the movement's stances. Most notably, the vast majority of conservatives are not rich or influential, yet continue to support those whose end goal is to even further consolidate wealth and prestige amongst those who already have loads of it, frequently obtained via questionable means - the equation simply doesn't add up to an informed, logical stance. In like manner, if the majority of conservatives took a good honest look at what their leaders (de facto and otherwise) are saying and doing, I think there would be many more objections to recent news items than we're seeing now.

And the fact that people are comparing right-wing talk radio hosts and newscasters to a psychotic racist murderer, as if that is anywhere near a valid comparison.

At what point do the people tell the politicians to go to hell? At what point do they get off the couch, march down to their state legislator's house, pull him outside, and beat him to a bloody pulp for being an idiot?...Were I in Washington State, I'd be cleaning my gun right about now waiting to protect my property from the coming riots or the government apparatchiks coming to enforce nonsensical legislation.

Those crazies in Montana who say, 'We're going to kill ATF agents because the U.N.'s going to take over' -- well, they're beginning to have a case.

We can never forget that the Founders were rebelling against a governmental authority that abused their taxation power. And that was the tyranny. That's exactly what's happening right now. And we have to -- we have to rise up and say, 'No more. Not on my watch. No more.'

Indeed -- like the proverbial cellblock rapist, our president is 'ramming' as much of his Marxist agenda down our collective throats as quickly as he can. One would think he fears that someone might come around the corner at any second and catch him.

How much more will Americans take? When will enough be enough? And, when that time comes, will our leaders finally listen or will history need to record a second American Revolution? We the people have the authority according to America's Declaration of Independence...On Glenn Beck's radio show last week, I quipped in response to our wayward federal government, 'I may run for president of Texas.' That need may be a reality sooner than we think.

As a matter of fact, the Founding Fathers argued that the Second Amendment should have been the first. Because without the second, there is no first...Yeah, when you hear that Quinn's guns have been confiscated, you will know that Quinn is dead.

maybe Rev Wright drove James W. von Brunn over the edge....

The first thing you do is, no matter what law they pass, do not -- repeat, not -- ever register any of your firearms. Because that's where they get the list of where to go first to confiscate. So, you don't ever register a firearm, anywhere."

Well, if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests.

(my personal favorite - and he said this back in the mid-90's)

No one is called Hussein unless he is Muslim. So it is very clear that Barack Hussein Obama is definitely a Muslim...In Islam, in the law of Sharia of Islam, the Prophet of Islam said [speaking Arabic] whoever leaves the Islamic faith is to be killed. So what part of killing people don't understand? He is not called to be killed by the Muslims. Why do they support him? I haven't heard a really serious testimony of his Christian conversion. A Muslim who converts to Christianity, the first thing he does is denounces Islam. Has Barack Hussein Obama denounced Islam as a false religion?...He would be extremely dangerous. He would -- he's already calling for dismantlement of nuclear weapons. He's already calling for negotiations with Islamists. He's already calling to help Arabs who are arrested in America. He's already professed to hold hands with the Muslims, and wanting to hold hands with the Muslims in his book. In his book, it's very clear. He mentioned that. He'd rather hold hands with the Muslims.

Jews for McCain because Obama wants to gas the Jews, like the PLO wants to gas the Jews, like the Nazis gassed the Jews.

Six-six-six. The mark of the beast. The great majority, of course, are registered by ACORN. ... Who conducted ACORN seminars to tell ACORN employees and others how to cheat the system? Barack Hussein Obama. I may declare him to be the beast. Six-six-six. It could be the end of all days.

There will be a lot more Arabic speakers here in our country if he does, because there will be an invasion of Muslim terrorists if he becomes president.

I think [Obama] was hand-picked by some very powerful forces both within and outside the United State of America to drag this country into a hell that it has not seen since the Civil War of the middle of the 19th century.

I have more, if you'd like them.

Now, your turn - find me the conservative of any notable weight who has taken a principled, vocal stand against ANY of the aforementioned persons and/or statements.

[adversity1]

Andrew Sullivan, who writes a pretty good blog.
Took a hardline stance for gay marriage and against torture early on.

Not that I'm tracking conservatives though, I'm on the far left fwiw.

[Acid King]

I have more, if you'd like them.

Now, your turn - find me the conservative of any notable weight who has taken a principled, vocal stand against ANY of the aforementioned persons and/or statements.

But this kind of shit is what both sides do. It's a silly issue to be on about because this is what politics has become. The only difference is that back when Bush was President, people on the left called him a war criminal, likened him to Hitler god knows how many times, called for an impeachment amongst other similarly insane ramblings. Ramblings just as bad and hyperbolic as those ones you just posted. Thats how people like Ann Coulter and Mike Savage sell books and get ratings, by saying inane, inflammatory shit. But this stuff isn't the sole providence of the right. I could probably makea simialr list of insane shit pundits on the left have said and ask you to find people on the left that spoke out and you'll find very few, if any.

[ncp]

Damn. Bulletmagnet I had a pretty long response for you that responded to all the parts of your post, but while I was typing it I got logged out for some reason, and when it asked me to log in it basically ate the post . I'm way too lazy to re-type it all, so lol too bad for me. Basically the TLDR version was: First Paragraph: 99.999% conservatives also attempt to be "a part of a funcitoning, if imperfect, society", which is why abortion doctors being murdered is not a common event, but something you hear about rarely. They, too, obey the law, just like you and me. Second Paragraph: That's just dumb and presumptuous, sorry bro, if I go into the reasons why I'll end up with another big long rambling like the post that got eaten. Quotes: Finding quotes to misrepresent an organization or even an individual is just that. The same can be done for any group. And some of those quotes are completely harmless unless you're really trying to infer things that weren't even implied.