My friend and I had been playing Ikaruga Dreamcast on and off for some time. We were able to get to level 4 okay. I had almost beat the level 4 boss myself, when all of the sudden, we get unlimited continues.
We went on to beat the whole game in 20 mins. No fun at all. Is there a way to set the continues at a fixed amount other than starting a new savefile?
Ikaruga - Annoyed with Unlimited Continues
Ikaruga - Annoyed with Unlimited Continues
make a reaction
memorizing a pattern
must not be shot down
memorizing a pattern
must not be shot down
I had heard that there was a way to turn it off under "options".
I'd say, choose a number of total credits per player that "count", and restart when one player has continued three (or whatever) times.
This is a problem with *all* arcade games, but shmups are one of the few remaining genres where infinite continues actually jacks with the play.
Old ports used to give you three credits, and make the game easier. I would definitely do more than that, because three credits with two players means you both start and one of you continues once and *poof* that's it.
I'm not trying to be condescending, it happens with me too, but games like this aren't actually about the end, they are about the experience. Or at least, that's how they are intended. Games didn't become "beatable" for quite some time, and before that were happy to send you through various colors and faster enemies until they finally blew you up or dropped bird turd on you or whatever they did to kill you. The "orgasm" style of gaming wasn't around at first, you didn't have your eyes on a plot prize.
Shmups never really made the transition, in my opinion. They're still about technique and score. The net kind of cheapens that, because at your local arcade, you really *could* be the local hero, or the guy who gets close but can't quite touch the champ, or one of the honorable mentions.
Nowadays, the odds of you being the best at something that the most fanatical netninjas compete at are about zero. So even though it's about score, for you, it's about *your* score.
Anyway, you'll also see this issue in MAME, where you can pump in virtual quarters till the cows come home. I actually really enjoy that, but it won't keep me coming back.
Try doing the practice mode and getting through each section without dying (you can do those two players), that's a good thing. You can simulate it in MAME with save states on other games.
Tell me if any of this helps.
But I still think you can shut it off. I could be wrong, though.
I'd say, choose a number of total credits per player that "count", and restart when one player has continued three (or whatever) times.
This is a problem with *all* arcade games, but shmups are one of the few remaining genres where infinite continues actually jacks with the play.
Old ports used to give you three credits, and make the game easier. I would definitely do more than that, because three credits with two players means you both start and one of you continues once and *poof* that's it.
I'm not trying to be condescending, it happens with me too, but games like this aren't actually about the end, they are about the experience. Or at least, that's how they are intended. Games didn't become "beatable" for quite some time, and before that were happy to send you through various colors and faster enemies until they finally blew you up or dropped bird turd on you or whatever they did to kill you. The "orgasm" style of gaming wasn't around at first, you didn't have your eyes on a plot prize.
Shmups never really made the transition, in my opinion. They're still about technique and score. The net kind of cheapens that, because at your local arcade, you really *could* be the local hero, or the guy who gets close but can't quite touch the champ, or one of the honorable mentions.
Nowadays, the odds of you being the best at something that the most fanatical netninjas compete at are about zero. So even though it's about score, for you, it's about *your* score.
Anyway, you'll also see this issue in MAME, where you can pump in virtual quarters till the cows come home. I actually really enjoy that, but it won't keep me coming back.
Try doing the practice mode and getting through each section without dying (you can do those two players), that's a good thing. You can simulate it in MAME with save states on other games.
Tell me if any of this helps.
But I still think you can shut it off. I could be wrong, though.
-
black mariah
- Banned User
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:25 am
- Location: Fort Worth, Tx
-
Metal Gear Okt
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 2:46 pm
-
Sly Cherry Chunks
- Posts: 1981
- Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:40 pm
- Location: Colin's Bargain Basement. Everything must go.
"Continuing? Bah. Credit-feeding? Bah. A shmupper craves not these things."
(after witnessing a JPN player pull their usual insane stunts - WIZ with his two-handed Ikaruga plays, Mushihime's Ultra mode cleared, all that):
Shmupper-in-training: "I don't believe it!"
Master Shmupper: "That...is why you fail."
(after witnessing a JPN player pull their usual insane stunts - WIZ with his two-handed Ikaruga plays, Mushihime's Ultra mode cleared, all that):
Shmupper-in-training: "I don't believe it!"
Master Shmupper: "That...is why you fail."
No matter how good a game is, somebody will always hate it. No matter how bad a game is, somebody will always love it.
My videos
My videos
-
gundamalpha
- Posts: 355
- Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:20 pm
- Location: Australia
-
pixeljunkie
- Posts: 342
- Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:11 pm
- Location: Dallas, TX
Sorry, had to correct you there, Ghegs.Ghegs wrote:"Continuing? Bah. Credit-feeding? Bah. A shmupper craves not these things."
(after witnessing a JPN player pull their usual insane stunts - VTF-INO with his two-handed Ikaruga plays, Mushihime's Ultra mode cleared, all that):
Shmupper-in-training: "I don't believe it!"
Master Shmupper: "That...is why you fail."
Much obliged. I don't remember anymore who did what...Kiken wrote:Sorry, had to correct you there, Ghegs.
No matter how good a game is, somebody will always hate it. No matter how bad a game is, somebody will always love it.
My videos
My videos
i dont know wether to laugh or be sad wether one of these topics pops up.
sure its better when the game sets how many credits you are going to have instead of deciding it yourself.
or not.
i could understand the complaint of random people that dont know what a shooter is about, but i mean surely anyone that comes to this site knows that creditfeeding trought an arcade game (wether it be 4 credits or 30) is not "beating" it, right?
sure its better when the game sets how many credits you are going to have instead of deciding it yourself.
or not.
i could understand the complaint of random people that dont know what a shooter is about, but i mean surely anyone that comes to this site knows that creditfeeding trought an arcade game (wether it be 4 credits or 30) is not "beating" it, right?
-
Ex_Mosquito
- Posts: 590
- Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:17 pm
- Location: United Kingdom, Newport S.Wales
I dont see the problem just dont press start when it asks you too, simple.
My Arcade 1-Credit Replays
http://www.youtube.com/user/exmosquito
http://www.youtube.com/user/exmosquito
Thanks for all of the negative answers to my question. I'm sorry my question about a feature in Ikaruga doesn't live up to all of the expectations of the shmup "elite". You guys are so "elite" it makes you sad to see simple questions.
It's people like this that make forums not only inviting to newbies, but very informative for people who've been here for a little while.
Keep up the elite shmupping! I'm sorry I'm not at your level yet! I'll be sure to throw my memory card in the trash. Geez, these "stupid" questions.
It's people like this that make forums not only inviting to newbies, but very informative for people who've been here for a little while.
Keep up the elite shmupping! I'm sorry I'm not at your level yet! I'll be sure to throw my memory card in the trash. Geez, these "stupid" questions.
The vagrant wrote:i dont know wether to laugh or be sad wether one of these topics pops up.
sure its better when the game sets how many credits you are going to have instead of deciding it yourself.
or not.
i could understand the complaint of random people that dont know what a shooter is about, but i mean surely anyone that comes to this site knows that creditfeeding trought an arcade game (wether it be 4 credits or 30) is not "beating" it, right?
make a reaction
memorizing a pattern
must not be shot down
memorizing a pattern
must not be shot down
-
crithit5000
- Posts: 925
- Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:17 am
- Location: Youngstown OH, USA
- Contact:
I'm certainly not 'elite' at Ikaruga, and I don't whack the start button when the continue screen appears...I think most of the negative posts in this thread were made in jest, seeing how the simple solution to is to not use continues when you don't want to. If using unlimited credits ruins a game for you that much, just don't use them.
now tighter than your sister
I find the game to be a lot more fun when playing for score, and since your score resets if you continue, that solved the problem of infinite continues for me.
Some people think they're "elite" or something, but I think mostly everyone is just telling you to not continue becuase they think you shouldnt. I feel Ikaruga is meant to be played on one credit, so I play it that way.
Some people think they're "elite" or something, but I think mostly everyone is just telling you to not continue becuase they think you shouldnt. I feel Ikaruga is meant to be played on one credit, so I play it that way.
In fairness...
What other genre comes with a note that says "Oh, also, if you'd like to just win and never die, hold R."?
Actually, even that's not a fair comparision to the unlimited continues. In an RPG, you probably see the Game Over screen once per ten hours of gameplay, and continuing from your last save is expected.
Modern genres don't expect you to make your own rules up, they expect you to play by theirs. The game can't let you *not* continue, or just give you one credit, or whatever. So, it gives you a limited number of credits and increases them slowly. That seems ok.
Personally, I don't even understand how someone would put in just one credit if they were in the mood to play the game. The only exception I can come up with is if the person in question is really, really good (at the genre or at the game). Assume you are average at video games, and you pick up Ikaruga for the first time. You are going to be out of lives on level 2 (your first continue). The boss of level 2 will own you for even longer. Then, as you progress in the game, two things work against you: first, to get back to where you were takes time (and you could screw it up). Second, the later stages are harder than the earlier stages. So while retrying levels 1 and 2 takes an average of seconds, retrying Mr. Weapons Disabled takes fifteen or twenty minutes plus a good run.
The designerns know this well. So, they have mechanisms built in for you to practice with. The practice option, that's the most obvious. Infinite credits is another.
When I play a game, I'll usually play all the way through, pushing in credits as needed. If I like the experience at all, I'll repeat the process, trying to trim down the number of credits. This has the following advantages:
(1)- It's actually fun.
(2)- I get even practice over all points in the game.
By "fun", I mean that the experience is novel and does not feel like work. The second thing means that I don't get really good at the early parts while being utterly unpracticed at the latter. I mean, if you only have eighty hours to spend at a video game, you are going to try to spend as much of that time at the *hard* parts, not the *easy* parts.
Usually, I'll get it down to a reasonably small number of credits before I'm bored with the game (I'll usually stop playing it for a few months or years or whatever). Sometimes, I'll stick with it and go for the 1cc.
But anyway dczx, the point I'm trying to make is that the game expects *you* to be part of it. If you want to blast through with a friend, now it lets you! A cool feature. If you want to go hardcore and not even lose your first credit (or hell, not even lose your first LIFE), you have to make that rule for yourself. What's a fair number of credits? Well, I offered a suggestion. I didn't think I was being snobbish or anything, but you can really pick whatever you want. Because of the nature of the genre, you are in a lot more control over what happens than in normal games.
I mean, how do you handle games in MAME? Arcade shooters, like poker, are games where that credit is expected to cost you something- real money, cred, a note to yourself that you should do better, something. If it costs you *nothing*, then you are missing out on part of the experience- which might be ok with you. Since you're complaining about it, it obviously isn't, so I think what we're trying to do is to get you to put a price on you pressing start more than some number of times.
Without the threat of failure, it's not really a game, it's a procedure.
What other genre comes with a note that says "Oh, also, if you'd like to just win and never die, hold R."?
Actually, even that's not a fair comparision to the unlimited continues. In an RPG, you probably see the Game Over screen once per ten hours of gameplay, and continuing from your last save is expected.
Modern genres don't expect you to make your own rules up, they expect you to play by theirs. The game can't let you *not* continue, or just give you one credit, or whatever. So, it gives you a limited number of credits and increases them slowly. That seems ok.
Personally, I don't even understand how someone would put in just one credit if they were in the mood to play the game. The only exception I can come up with is if the person in question is really, really good (at the genre or at the game). Assume you are average at video games, and you pick up Ikaruga for the first time. You are going to be out of lives on level 2 (your first continue). The boss of level 2 will own you for even longer. Then, as you progress in the game, two things work against you: first, to get back to where you were takes time (and you could screw it up). Second, the later stages are harder than the earlier stages. So while retrying levels 1 and 2 takes an average of seconds, retrying Mr. Weapons Disabled takes fifteen or twenty minutes plus a good run.
The designerns know this well. So, they have mechanisms built in for you to practice with. The practice option, that's the most obvious. Infinite credits is another.
When I play a game, I'll usually play all the way through, pushing in credits as needed. If I like the experience at all, I'll repeat the process, trying to trim down the number of credits. This has the following advantages:
(1)- It's actually fun.
(2)- I get even practice over all points in the game.
By "fun", I mean that the experience is novel and does not feel like work. The second thing means that I don't get really good at the early parts while being utterly unpracticed at the latter. I mean, if you only have eighty hours to spend at a video game, you are going to try to spend as much of that time at the *hard* parts, not the *easy* parts.
Usually, I'll get it down to a reasonably small number of credits before I'm bored with the game (I'll usually stop playing it for a few months or years or whatever). Sometimes, I'll stick with it and go for the 1cc.
But anyway dczx, the point I'm trying to make is that the game expects *you* to be part of it. If you want to blast through with a friend, now it lets you! A cool feature. If you want to go hardcore and not even lose your first credit (or hell, not even lose your first LIFE), you have to make that rule for yourself. What's a fair number of credits? Well, I offered a suggestion. I didn't think I was being snobbish or anything, but you can really pick whatever you want. Because of the nature of the genre, you are in a lot more control over what happens than in normal games.
I mean, how do you handle games in MAME? Arcade shooters, like poker, are games where that credit is expected to cost you something- real money, cred, a note to yourself that you should do better, something. If it costs you *nothing*, then you are missing out on part of the experience- which might be ok with you. Since you're complaining about it, it obviously isn't, so I think what we're trying to do is to get you to put a price on you pressing start more than some number of times.
Without the threat of failure, it's not really a game, it's a procedure.
-
Zweihander
- Posts: 1363
- Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 8:10 am
- Location: US
oh lawdy lawdy... another thread bitchinf about unlimited credits. didn't we have this discussion last week, and the week before that, and so on?
i see no problem with unlimited credits; and games like Ikaruga don't make you quit the game to enter your name in the high scores. Some games do, i.e. Trizeal, Shiki, Gunbird 2... But Ikaruga is forgiving in that, even though you continue, you still get to enter your name. playing the rest of the way through is good for practice. If you weren't bitching about unlimited creds, you'd be bitching about getting your ass handed to you by the final bosses you didn't even see coming. Continue if you want practice, or choose to end the game to simulate an empty pocket at the arcades. Either way, this repeated discussion is so old it belongs in Off-topic. Or livejournal. SAGE.
i see no problem with unlimited credits; and games like Ikaruga don't make you quit the game to enter your name in the high scores. Some games do, i.e. Trizeal, Shiki, Gunbird 2... But Ikaruga is forgiving in that, even though you continue, you still get to enter your name. playing the rest of the way through is good for practice. If you weren't bitching about unlimited creds, you'd be bitching about getting your ass handed to you by the final bosses you didn't even see coming. Continue if you want practice, or choose to end the game to simulate an empty pocket at the arcades. Either way, this repeated discussion is so old it belongs in Off-topic. Or livejournal. SAGE.
Schrodinger's cat wrote:Yeah, "shmup" really sounds like a term a Jewish grandmother would insult you with.
You're all hurt and everything, but participating in a community involves as much as you contributing as it does getting something back.dczx wrote:Keep up the elite shmupping! I'm sorry I'm not at your level yet! I'll be sure to throw my memory card in the trash. Geez, these "stupid" questions.
Did you look at your question? It *is* pretty bad, and if you think about it I'm sure you'll realize that. If the answer to a question is as simple as "stop doing that" then, well, you'll get this. And deserve it
Bill
