Why do Shmup DVDs cost so much?

bucklemyshoe · Post by **bucklemyshoe** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:09 pm

I understand that Japan loves to rape it's consumers by charging double for just about everything but why do shooting game DVDs cost soooo much. even SBO DVDs only run around 50$ or so. 100$+ for a superplay just seems a bit much.

Anyone care to break down the reasoning?

Aru-san · Post by **Aru-san** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:16 pm

These DVDs are coming from a country that have you pay around $500 for a box set of a season of anime.

I'm guessing this is how the superplayers get paid. Overcharging for 2-5 hours of video game prowess and distributing the revenue towards the contributors.

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:30 pm

The easiest way to get a superplay for free is to make one yourself.

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:40 pm

Nico is probably easier

Aru-san · Post by **Aru-san** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:21 pm

You want free, sort-of easily accessible superplays? http://www.super-play.co.uk is your friend.

bucklemyshoe · Post by **bucklemyshoe** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:21 pm

super-play.co.uk is even easier than that, considering you don't have to register like you do on nico.

I have close to 11GB of shmups vids. That's not the problem, I guess I'm just having a hard time biting the bullet of cost it takes to get my hands on the official DVDs. I wanted to know what makes them worth it really.

Why would I buy a 100$ DVD vs watching one on Nico for free.

Anyone care to explain their perspective on that argument?

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:32 pm

the company releasing the dvd have to pay the publisher/developer of said game(s) a certain amount for the licence fee straight off the bat. then a fee for the players themselves. glossy artwork/technical info booklet. and some also come with an arranged soundtrack CD.

because the audience is so small and niche, we each have to pay a fair amount to keep these projects viable for the dvd publishers. if shmups and superplays were more popular, we'd pay less

in the case of SBO, japan has strict no gambling laws, so the players competing do not pay an entrance fee, so the dvd sales provide revenue to award the cash prizes to the winners

Ex-Cyber · Post by **Ex-Cyber** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:34 pm

bucklemyshoe wrote:super-play.co.uk is even easier than that, considering you don't have to register like you do on nico.

I have close to 11GB of shmups vids. That's not the problem, I guess I'm just having a hard time biting the bullet of cost it takes to get my hands on the official DVDs. I wanted to know what makes them worth it really.

Why would I buy a 100$ DVD vs watching one on Nico for free.

Anyone care to explain their perspective on that argument?

It makes you more hardcore.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:41 pm

If you do have access to the original VHS based arcade PCB shmup superplays and do a proper conversion job to a DVD-R disc, it will look better than any compressed AVI,WMV,etc. type of video/audio format on superplay.co.uk, nico or any other site for that matter. ^_~

In order for the superplay to look at it's best, the said VHS tape will not been played very much and still look good during playback. It also depends what VCR, DVD recording equipment and blank DVD-R recording disc medium you use for the final DVD-R disc burn as well. The higher bit rate recording and using the most of the space afforded of a single 4.7GB DVD-R is what will result in the highest quality playback when it is properly done. ^_~

Sure, there are a few VHS superplay tapes that are encoded with the anti-copying Macrovision protection scheme and there are ways around that little "roadblock". There's nothing that a bit of ingenuity/sleight of the hand can handle with Macrovision scheme anyways.

Considering that the arcade/console shmup superplays are a niche genre to begin with, it's worth the prices to pony up for them shmup superplays considering the time and effort it does take to pull of a flawless no-miss 1CC session anyways. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

bucklemyshoe · Post by **bucklemyshoe** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:45 pm

jpj wrote:the company releasing the dvd have to pay the publisher/developer of said game(s) a certain amount for the licence fee straight off the bat. then a fee for the players themselves. glossy artwork/technical info booklet. and some also come with an arranged soundtrack CD.

because the audience is so small and niche, we each have to pay a fair amount to keep these projects viable for the dvd publishers. if shmups and superplays were more popular, we'd pay less

in the case of SBO, japan has strict no gambling laws, so the players competing do not pay an entrance fee, so the dvd sales provide revenue to award the cash prizes to the winners

Thanks for the great answer, I don't know why I didn't look at it like that before but now everything is clear.

...except I thought there was no cash prizes for SBO?

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:01 pm

There were some VHS shmup superplays that were entirely self produced with no money going to the companies -- take for instance, ace player ZBL-NAI's DDP Professional Vol. 1 "Dodonpachi" Episode 2 self produced superplay. It features an even higher 1CC DDP superplay run than what was featured in the Gamest Video Vol. 39 Dodonpachi superplay run that ZBL-NAI did earlier. Not that many VHS copies were made anyways and is considered uber rare. I did personally handle the DVD-R conversion of the above listed DDP VHS tape for fellow shmupper oxtsu many moons ago. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:08 pm

bucklemyshoe wrote:Why would I buy a 100$ DVD vs watching one on Nico for free.

Anyone care to explain their perspective on that argument?

Because Nico video doesn't have a 19mil run in Pink Sweets nor a 25+mil run in Batrider. If and when the time comes for either such DVDs (come on Galford) I'd gladly cough up a couple dollars to see outstanding runs.

Free in some cases can only take you so far.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:10 pm

you could be right, but that is what i heard

but it's not called prizes because of the anti-gambling laws

the shmup dvds tend to hold their prices quite well, and i'd definitely recommend picking some up. feels like ages since the last INH dvd

i wrote a polite email to galford in japanese offering $100 for him to put his pink sweets runs on the internet, but no reply

ZacharyB · Post by **ZacharyB** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:20 pm

jpj hit it on the head; They're expensive because the market is so small. Support shmup experts, because then, you're supporting yourself.

Who knows where the games will go in the future...

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:21 pm

jpj wrote:you could be right, but that is what i heard but it's not called prizes because of the anti-gambling laws

the shmup dvds tend to hold their prices quite well, and i'd definitely recommend picking some up. feels like ages since the last INH dvd

i wrote a polite email to galford in japanese offering $100 for him to put his pink sweets runs on the internet, but no reply

Perhaps Galford doesn't want others to profit from his superplays...perfectly understandable if you stop to ponder about this particular issue. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:23 pm

i think he was worried about the copyright issue. shame

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:25 pm

ZacharyB wrote:jpj hit it on the head; They're expensive because the market is so small. Support shmup experts, because then, you're supporting yourself. Who knows where the games will go in the future...

Eventually to either the pearly gates of Heaven or the forever be damned gates of Hell when arcade PCBs finally can't be revived anymore if on critical life support and decide to bite the dust. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:31 pm

jpj wrote:you could be right, but that is what i heard but it's not called prizes because of the anti-gambling laws

the shmup dvds tend to hold their prices quite well, and i'd definitely recommend picking some up. feels like ages since the last INH dvd

i wrote a polite email to galford in japanese offering $100 for him to put his pink sweets runs on the internet, but no reply

No to spam the poor guy but I think another email attempt should be made and with respect that many people are very interesting in viewing this DVD. I think at the very least he should reply and explain... so I'd hope.

ncp · Post by **ncp** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:54 pm

Whether or not it's worth the price really depends on the DVD. INH's DVDs are between 5000-8000 yen, brand new, I believe. They are generally very high quality with multiple runs, I think the Ibara DVD has like 4 different runs (in different modes/characters) all of which are very high scoring, and also comes with a soundtrack (with some arranged tracks), and booklet for 6000 yen. That's well worth the 60 bucks if you ask me. Generally we have to pay more for imports over here, but that's hardly their fault...

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:09 pm

PCEFan: What VHSs have you run into that have copy protection? I've been fortunate enough to avoid stumbling upon one so far.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:13 pm

limbrooke: his email address doesn't exist anymore. apparently he hasn't been down to his arcade (gamebox2) in ages either. pretty much a lost cause, but believe me, i have tried everything to get a pink sweets dvd. INH said they would think about it. and i emailed nakano ryuzou, the guy who produced the recent DOJ BL dvd and himself a previous world record holder on pink sweets, but he said the licence fee was too high, and hardly anyone in japan likes the game anyway

mrs jpj is buying me an SBO dvd for my birthday next month

i've only bought the x-mania dvds before, so hope it's good

bucklemyshoe · Post by **bucklemyshoe** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:24 pm

SBO DVDs are wonderful. Worth every penny IMO.

I plan on buying several this year like I did last year.

my youtube channel has matches from the AH2, MBAC, and 3S DVDs if you're curious about the level of play.

youtube.com/bucklesmybuckles

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:32 pm

cheers dude, i'll check that out

more of a super turbo man myself (so to speak)

about SBO cash: like i say, i could be wrong, but the way it was explained to me was they receive a certain amont of loyalties from the dvd sales

glad to hear they're worth the cash. i didn't mind the x-mania ones because one came with the yoga book (all the frame data - which alone can sell for crazy money now that it's out of print), and the other one was 3x dvds at 6+ hours footage

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:40 pm

CStarFlare wrote:PCEFan: What VHSs have you run into that have copy protection? I've been fortunate enough to avoid stumbling upon one so far.

There is the Radiant Silvergun superplay by ace player SWY-WIZ that has the Macrovision scheme in place. I wasn't expecting such a anti-copying scheme to be implemented but yes, it's on that particular VHS tape alrighty, CStarFlare. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:42 pm

i think you mean T3-CYR-WIZ, not to be confused with SWY-Yusemi ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:54 pm

jpj wrote:i think you mean T3-CYR-WIZ, not to be confused with SWY-Yusemi ^_~

Whoops, you're correct on that, jpj. Thanks for the polite correction of my error. ^_~

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:55 pm

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:
CStarFlare wrote:PCEFan: What VHSs have you run into that have copy protection? I've been fortunate enough to avoid stumbling upon one so far.
There is the Radiant Silvergun superplay by ace player SWY-WIZ that has the Macrovision scheme in place. I wasn't expecting such a anti-copying scheme to be implemented but yes, it's on that particular VHS tape alrighty, CStarFlare. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

oh damn, I think I have that one but haven't tried to copy it to dvd yet

haha

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:04 pm

CStarFlare wrote:
PC Engine Fan X! wrote:
CStarFlare wrote:PCEFan: What VHSs have you run into that have copy protection? I've been fortunate enough to avoid stumbling upon one so far.
There is the Radiant Silvergun superplay by ace player SWY-WIZ that has the Macrovision scheme in place. I wasn't expecting such a anti-copying scheme to be implemented but yes, it's on that particular VHS tape alrighty, CStarFlare. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
oh damn, I think I have that one but haven't tried to copy it to dvd yet

haha

Yes, I do have that T3-CYR-WIZ run of RSG superplay converted to DVD-R for posterity alrighty. There are professional studio grade manufactured VCRs that can remove/strip the "dreaded" Macrovision protection scheme if it needed be. ^_~

On an OT Macrovision related subject matter, the old VHS tapes of George Lucas' original Star Wars trilogy from the early 1980s and the re-release of the 15th year anniversary SW movies on VHS all do have Macrovision protection on them -- I tried to see if I could convert them to DVD-R just for kicks but it's no can do (this was back in the day before SW fans were clamoring for Mr. Lucas to release his SW movies on DVD format). ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:45 pm

Don't online consoles and their ability to provide downloadable replays mark th end of new superplay DVDs, though? I mean, I know that not every arcade release makes it onto a console, not by a long stretch, but some do. Why would I fork out for the Mushi Futari official DVD when the home port's just around the corner and will presumably allow me to watch the replay of any player who decides to record one?

zlk · Post by **zlk** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:49 pm

I tried to contact a few famous players to make a donpachi video. I was told they would not make a replay "for ANY amount of money." Considering how much I was willing to pay for the replay, I found the response interesting to say the least.