Classic games you don't like.

[sethsez]

Because the entire purpose of this thread is mentioning "classic" games you don't enjoy. Clearly some people don't enjoy CV IV even though it's a classic. Thus, they bring it up here, where MANY popular classics have been dissed. I mean, people have brought up Mario, Sonic and Mega Man games. The Castlevania series wasn't likely to be exempt.

[BrianC]

Because the entire purpose of this thread is mentioning "classic" games you don't enjoy. Clearly some people don't enjoy CV IV even though it's a classic. Thus, they bring it up here, where MANY popular classics have been dissed. I mean, people have brought up Mario, Sonic and Mega Man games. The Castlevania series wasn't likely to be exempt.

Yeah, I know, but I just want to know how Bloodlines suddendly got to be the best in the series and if I'm the only person on these forums that actually likes both CVIV and Bloodlines. I just want to know where people are coming from. To be honest, there aren't really very many classic games I don't like. I think there is at least one good game on every system.

Actually, I don't care much for Hard Drivin'. When I first played it, I admit I only liked it because of the wow factor, but I always found the game too hard for its own good. Now, the game is just too darn complicated for its own good. It tries for realism, but there isn't enough fun to be had.

[bluberry]

CVIV's Mode 7 effects feel like they're simply there to be showy; they had a point in other games like, say, Super Mario Kart (or even in Contra III, albeit a misguided point), but 99% of the time in CVIV they're just ostentatious. The spinning room, for instance... you just hang there. And spin. I don't even want to remember the <i>Chandeliers of DOOM!</i>. I gotta agree with the greatest man ever* on his assertion that "it was far more important to simply use SNES effects than it was to make them make sense."

*Nick Evil is the greatest man ever for having the awesome Sega Bastard website. http://www.segabastard.com

[BrianC]

CVIV's Mode 7 effects feel like they're simply there to be showy; they had a point in other games like, say, Super Mario Kart (or even in Contra III, albeit a misguided point), but 99% of the time in CVIV they're just ostentatious. The spinning room, for instance... you just hang there. And spin. I don't even want to remember the <i>Chandeliers of DOOM!</i>. I gotta agree with the greatest man ever* on his assertion that "it was far more important to simply use SNES effects than it was to make them make sense."

*Nick Evil is the greatest man ever for having the awesome Sega Bastard website. http://www.segabastard.com

Yeah, I heard everything you had to say in your *interesting* 3/10 review. I still don't understand why every poor review for CVIV bashes the bosses, which I found to be very well designed.

[neorichieb1971]

Armed police batrider - Too much going on, didn't like the palette.


Gran Turismo - Waste of possibly the best graphics engine in the world. Give me crash damage

Devil May Cry - Over rated repetitiveness.. Sore thumbs are us.


Tomb Raider - So over rated.. Sex sells crap games for sure. 90 million old fossil animals come to life and you should them by doing acrobatics. Who built that bridge?


Goldeneye - Liked Turok, couldnt shake the controls for Goldeneye.. shame really.


FZero - 60fps and speed is not enough.. a good polished Extreme G would have been more playable.


That Raizing mahou racing shmup - Crap graphics turned me off completely.

[bluberry]

Yeah, I heard everything you had to say in your *interesting* 3/10 review. I still don't understand why every poor review for CVIV bashes the bosses, which I found to be very well designed.

haha oh God, not exactly the best thing I've ever written. I need to re-write it so that I don't try to make points like "well this one level has lots of whipping". It's also no 3, to be honest.

The bosses... eh. Outside of a couple like that golden bat they were almost ridiculously simplistic. You just have to go in a figure eight pattern to beat the specters, you just have to chuck a cross or two at Medusa, you just have to not fail at games to beat Frankenstein... most of them seemed devoid of difficulty. :/

[BrianC]

Yeah, I heard everything you had to say in your *interesting* 3/10 review. I still don't understand why every poor review for CVIV bashes the bosses, which I found to be very well designed.

haha oh God, not exactly the best thing I've ever written. I need to re-write it so that I don't try to make points like "well this one level has lots of whipping". It's also no 3, to be honest.

The bosses... eh. Outside of a couple like that golden bat they were almost ridiculously simplistic. You just have to go in a figure eight pattern to beat the specters, you just have to chuck a cross or two at Medusa, you just have to not fail at games to beat Frankenstein... most of them seemed devoid of difficulty. :/

IMO, a difficult boss and a good boss are two different things, but I see where you're coming from. Is there anyone else at the shmups forum that likes CVIV? I understand why people dislike the game, but it just seems strange how almost everyone at the shmups forum seems to hate the game. Every other forum I have seen had varied opinions of the games, not just "Bloodlines rocks and CVIV sucks".

[neorichieb1971]

I never did beat castlevania 4. Got to level 7. something and gave up on some moving platforming section. Games are only easy if you know how to beat them.


I know some guys who can't beat the end boss of Resident evil because they try to beat the boss with ammo and not the rocket launcher.

[sethsez]

I don't really see how most people here hate the game... I've only noticed a couple people bring it up here, but maybe I'm missing something.

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Mario 64
Space Invaders
Elevator Action(The sequel is excellent however)
Donpachi(Yeah I said it, I made the mistake of playing this after Dodonpachi)
Metroid 2(For the gameboy)
Final Fight(Capcom would do much better)
Any Konami beatemup(About as much fun as throwing away quarters can be)
Gradius 1 & 2
Castlevania 1(The other games are great however)
Tekken 1 & 2(4 sucks too but I dunno if that would fall under "classic")
Every King of Fighters game prior to 97'
Marvel Vs Capcom 2
Aliens Vs Predator (arcade game by Capcom and yes they have done much better)
Raiden 1(Honestly who likes it when tanks appear out of nowhere and kill you?)
Galaxian is a fucking joke compared to Galaga.
R-Type(Don't care for the series yet I love Pulstar)

[Nemo]

Yeah, I heard everything you had to say in your *interesting* 3/10 review. I still don't understand why every poor review for CVIV bashes the bosses, which I found to be very well designed.

haha oh God, not exactly the best thing I've ever written. I need to re-write it so that I don't try to make points like "well this one level has lots of whipping". It's also no 3, to be honest.

The bosses... eh. Outside of a couple like that golden bat they were almost ridiculously simplistic. You just have to go in a figure eight pattern to beat the specters, you just have to chuck a cross or two at Medusa, you just have to not fail at games to beat Frankenstein... most of them seemed devoid of difficulty. :/

IMO, a difficult boss and a good boss are two different things, but I see where you're coming from. Is there anyone else at the shmups forum that likes CVIV? I understand why people dislike the game, but it just seems strange how almost everyone at the shmups forum seems to hate the game. Every other forum I have seen had varied opinions of the games, not just "Bloodlines rocks and CVIV sucks".

It's my favorite stage-based CV of all-time and I'm sure I've said it on this forum. There seems to greater favor held towards Genesis than the Snes around here (probably because of their respective shooters), so that might have something to do with it.

[black mariah]

A quick defense of Mortal Kombat. If anyone wants to proclaim it a button-mash fest, I hereby extend an invitation to try to whip my ass. You can't do it, because the game is not a button mash fest and I will in fact kick the living shit out of you (Offer good for original MK only. I never played 2 and 3 enough to get good at them. 3 sucked anyway. Void where 3d). Yeah, the computer AI blows and falls for the simplest of shit. Name a fighting game from that time period that DOESN'T have shitty AI. Hell, name one from NOW that doesn't...

To respond to something bloodflowers said earlier...
My hatred of 'memorization' type shmups extends to the modern ones you talk about too. You know how much I dislike Psikyo's crap. Simply put, I dislike any game that absolutely requires you to know ahead of time what is about to happen. There is nothing wrong with memorization by itself. There are many levels I know well enough to map out from memory, but I don't know these things out of necessity. It makes things easier, but it should never be a requirement for success. With the right amount of skill, a player should be able to sit down in front of a game and NEVER die because of cheap bullshit thrown out by the game. If he dies, it should be his own fault.

No, Rob, not knowing the level layout doesn't qualify as 'your own fault'. *poke*

R-Type blows.
Every 2d Psikyo shooter with the exception of Dragon Blaze blows.
RPG's suck (although I'm super-fucking-hyped-like-whoa about Advent Children)








Oh, and neorichieb1971 can officially kiss my GT fanboy ass.

[bluberry]

Yeah, I heard everything you had to say in your *interesting* 3/10 review. I still don't understand why every poor review for CVIV bashes the bosses, which I found to be very well designed.

haha oh God, not exactly the best thing I've ever written. I need to re-write it so that I don't try to make points like "well this one level has lots of whipping". It's also no 3, to be honest.

The bosses... eh. Outside of a couple like that golden bat they were almost ridiculously simplistic. You just have to go in a figure eight pattern to beat the specters, you just have to chuck a cross or two at Medusa, you just have to not fail at games to beat Frankenstein... most of them seemed devoid of difficulty. :/

IMO, a difficult boss and a good boss are two different things, but I see where you're coming from. Is there anyone else at the shmups forum that likes CVIV? I understand why people dislike the game, but it just seems strange how almost everyone at the shmups forum seems to hate the game. Every other forum I have seen had varied opinions of the games, not just "Bloodlines rocks and CVIV sucks".

Probably beating a dead horse with the whole CV4 thing now but I also didn't think the bosses were that good in terms of quality, either. Without difficulty going for them they've gotta be interesting, and imo, a size-changing golem and a big skull aren't very interesting. The mummy battle was cool though.

I kind of like Bloodlines. It's a love-it/hate-it thing. I love it for its barrage of fresh concepts but I hate it for not really developing any of them that well. I'd give it a 7 to CV4's 5.

[captain ahar]

ya know bm i know MK isn't a button masher, but that doesn't mean its any good either.

[Capt. Takehiko]

SNK fighting games pretty much all stink.

When you give an opinion you must back it up with a reason. I'd also be interested to see which ones you do not think "stink".

Alrighty then, the reason I said that SNK fighting games stink is because I've played them.

MotW, RBS Are awesome. KE and AoF3 have a certain charm and for some reason I haven't sold my KoF 98 or 99 carts yet. The only ones I ever play because it's me that wants to are RBS and MotW. Even the ones that have that 'certain charm' are basically just pretty 2D junk. As are most Neo Geo games. Ninja Combat, Cyber Lip, all of the shooters except Blazing Star. All of it stinks. Other than the super neato bigass NGH cartridges, I never did see what was so attractive about the Neo Geo in general. Magician Lord sucks!

Many valid points there but I am a rather avid fan... and I respect all peoples opinions.

[Randorama]

Giga Wing and Mars Matrix - Before Rob and Rando jump on me because I don't like their favourites

?

i wouldn't call them old classics, given the year of publication 9 they're not really old nor i would call them classics), but i really don't care about opinions, unless they're in another, more offensive form (please check the last closed thread on this issue...)

Oh yes, and I think Mars Matrix is ugly as hell. Why its graphics are praised so much is far beyond me.

Ah, bad form of captatio benevolantiae, to my knowledge i'm the only one who likes to a moderate extent its graphics

[SheSaidDutch]

Cave games-I cant say I dont like them but it's just something about them I cant get into.

[Valgar]

I do not like castlevania (have not played SOTN though). They are like a poor mans dungeon crawler. Might as well play Super Metroid or Diablo 2. Good music though.

[ROBOTRON]

90% of all Cave shooters

any:

Zelda
Final Fantasy

[black mariah]

ya know bm i know MK isn't a button masher, but that doesn't mean its any good either.

Meh. My opinion differs. I put MK in the same category as Samurai Shodown. They're not super-intricate combo-based games and if you try to compare them to games like that you'll be sorely disappointed. But if all you want to do is jump around and punch people they're great.

[Icecap Veiwin]

Actually, I was never a fan of 1942 (NES).

Though I did take interest in Strikers 1945. (Still have yet to play it, though.)

Edit: I just remembered -- I absolutely despised FF7. I just don't get how it got famous. I'm probably too used to the 2D FF games...

[PaCrappa]

Many valid points there but I am a rather avid fan... and I respect all peoples opinions.

Oh I'm a HUGE fan of the good Neo Geo games. It's just that in the average NG discussion the games I love most (Zupapa, Top Hunter, Spin Master, RBS, for instance) will not be talked about at all or maybe mentioned in some list and the superturds like Nightmare in the Dark, Pulstar, KoF (insert year) and Magician Lord etc get all the press. I suppose it's that way with my taste for most systems' libraries.

I know that Slash Out came out in 2000 and is not a 'classic' per se, but I do recall all this intense interweb fanboy fervor about whether it would be released on the Dreamcast or not. People were saying how overwhelmingly awesome it is and stuff.

I played it yesterday. And it gets the bozack.

*edit* I forgot to mention that even though I missed out on the whole Amiga scene as a youth, every time I see one running I have to think how sad it looks. Were these supposed to compete with Genesis, SNES and PCE? I once got to play some Amiga thingy called like a "CD 32" or somesuch. That was a cryin' shame.

Pa

[russ]

Got another one for my list:

Thunder Force V. Maybe it's not old enough to be considered a classic, but it gets enough praise and is still well known. I wasn't too anxious to pick this up, and just had moderate expectations for this game - I loved Thunder Force III, and liked Thunder Force IV (not as much as III). First thing that turned me on was the music - which was spectacular - and the graphics weren't too bad either. But I don't know how anyone can actually handle playing this game.

Sure, I understand (and usually embrace) memorization in shmups - you should have a fair idea of what you're up against to get by. But in this game, it's pretty much "if you don't know EXACTLY what's going to happen next, you're DEAD". Sure, TF III incorporated this a little bit, and so did TF IV, but this is just plain ridiculous. You're pretty much screwed in most of the boss fights if you don't already know where every safe spot is - almost every boss has an attack that shoots faster than you can react, and the attack has no warning and gives you no clue as to you might be in danger in a certain area. For example, the boss of stage 3 (don't know the name of the stage - it's the third stage in default order, the dark-looking city) has a "fan" shaped shot, whose large bullets traverse the screen almost instantly. No warning. No hinted safe spot. If you aren't lucky enough to be in one of the small frames of the screen that doesn't get blasted, well, you're dead.

Another problem I have with this game is the graphics - yes, I said I liked them earlier. I liked the way they looked. But the graphics interfere with actually playing the game - for instance, several of the mini-bosses and bosses move around a lot, and many times take up a good chunk of the screen. But some parts of the bosses' graphics aren't actually collision-detection areas, and it's really difficult to tell which. This makes it hard to know where you are safe when you're moving around, especially when the boss is flying back and forth to both sides of the screen constantly.

To summarize, my main gripe with this game is that it's too hard, in a way. Don't get me wrong, I embrace difficult games - Cave developed games and the Gradius series happen to be some of my favorites - but this game is too hard to play. Sure, the controls are responsive - hell, I love how you can change it to have each weapon bound to each button - but the design of the stages and enemies completely ruin the way the game is played. After almost every death I found myself pissed and sitting there wondering "what the fuck just killed me?", which doesn't happen to me in any other shmup. In fact, Thunder Force 5 and Counter-Strike for the PC are the only games that leave me feeling that way. Though I've been playing CS for years, and internet multiplayer games are more inclined to do that to you, but still. Overall, I'm very disappointed with this game, and what it has done to the Thunder Force series. The series might as well have gone back to being a clunky, top-down free-roaming type of shooter like it was in the beginning.

</rant> (largest post I've made yet)
EDIT: Wow, that was a lot of complaining for just 1 game...

[neorichieb1971]

edit* I forgot to mention that even though I missed out on the whole Amiga scene as a youth, every time I see one running I have to think how sad it looks. Were these supposed to compete with Genesis, SNES and PCE? I once got to play some Amiga thingy called like a "CD 32" or somesuch. That was a cryin' shame

The Amiga is foremost a computer, not a games machine. The USA only got a fraction of the software that was available in Europe. The best games on the Amiga were not the arcade classics we know and love on consoles as a company called US gold converted most of them, they are known to be the old EA.

If you want to play some decent Amiga/CD32 software I would recommend -

Hybris
Swiv
Lotus Esprit challenge 2
Dynablaster
Rodland (Great Jaleco game and the best version)
Bills Tomato game
Legend of Kyrandia
Simon the sorcorer
Superfrog
Xenon 2
Speedball 2
Alien Breed
Another world (aka Out of this world)



Most of those hold good memories. I would not consider the Amiga a 16bit console beater, but in the day the games were easily copyable and cost $20 as opposed to $50 or $60 for carts. In the UK SNES games cost 60 pounds (probably close to $100 in the day) and that was the domestic price . The Amiga also had a dedicated RGB monitor which made games unbelievably crisp and this was before I even knew about SCART or RGB..

Plus Amigas were not just games machines, the public domain or demo scene as it was called was just as appealing to many. There were 10's of 1000's of demos that completely blew me away at the time. The "State of the art" demo impresses me as much today as it did in 1993 and it was 700k.

[Rob]

With the right amount of skill, a player should be able to sit down in front of a game and NEVER die because of cheap bullshit thrown out by the game. If he dies, it should be his own fault.

No, Rob, not knowing the level layout doesn't qualify as 'your own fault'. *poke*

Loony talk. As I always say: a cheap death comes once, a boring game is forever!

[raiden]

I put MK in the same category as Samurai Shodown. They're not super-intricate combo-based games and if you try to compare them to games like that you'll be sorely disappointed. But if all you want to do is jump around and punch people they're great.

obviously you have no idea about Samurai Shodown.

@russ: I understand your gripes about TF5, but the funny thing is: I played it before 3+4, and guess what, I find 5 to be the easiest by far. Maybe you, just like me, were more patient with memorization-based games when you were younger?

Loony talk. As I always say: a cheap death comes once, a boring game is forever!

the phrase sounds great, but as a result cheap deaths are still a trademark of boring games: because once you know how to avoid the cheap deaths, the games become boring.

[Rob]

100% memorization style cheap deaths are lame, but he was talking about Psikyo. Psikyo games might feel cheap because they're fast paced (which doesn't leave much warning to a beginner), but that's what makes them exciting. They're really short games also, so it doesn't take much to learn or doesn't set you back much time. If Psikyo's games were designed with slower, telegraphed attacks they'd be pretty lame...

[russ]

@russ: I understand your gripes about TF5, but the funny thing is: I played it before 3+4, and guess what, I find 5 to be the easiest by far. Maybe you, just like me, were more patient with memorization-based games when you were younger?

Indeed you're probably right: R-type III used to be one of my favorites. If you've played it or remember it, stage 4 "Foundry" sort of blew the whole "memorization" to some insane levels... though I delt with it, somehow got the whole thing down to a practice, and I can still 1-life clear that game today. Maybe I'm just rusty on other games...

[Marc]

Mario 3: Bored the piss out of me. Maybe it's because I played SMW first, but this just never clicked with me in the same way.

F-Zero X: I piss-poor update of my favorite game of all time that for me just totally missed the point. Yes, it's fast. No, it's not fun.

Joust/Defender/Sinistar: Hate them all. Stupid controls, boring gameplay.

[WarpZone]

I was working on a list a while ago, so this topic is kinda convenient:

Ninja Gaiden (NES series)-
Although they have a reasonable degree of fluidity, they're hampered by stiff memorization built around cheap (rather than clever) enemy placement.

Castlevania (the pre-SOTN ones)-
Awkward level design (ie: the stairs) and clunky control leads to sections that feel frustrating and cheap. Super Castlevania IV is somewhat of an exception- although the character sprite feels too big and clumsy and some of the level and boss design is fairly questionable, the natural whip mechanics, pacing/ difficulty curve, and sound track may still be the best in the series.

SOTN and what I've played of the games to follow don't seem much better, with surprisingly vapid gameplay. Overall, just a terribly overrated series.

Metal Slug (series)-
Beneath the stylish art direction and animation lies a sluggish and cheap game filled with redundancy and counter-intuitive patterns. MS3, in particular, stings, with its final level demonstrating everything good and bad about the series at once.

Gradius (most of the series, including the Salamander games)-
Some really strange pacing and balance problems are actually magnified by a slippery-slope difficulty that punishes severely when you die. As a result, the wealth of interesting ideas on display here can only be considered lost opportunities rather than truly enjoyed. Thankfully GV has some real focus and integrity.

R-Type (most of the series)-
Despite the inventive play mechanics that seem to hold a fair degree of potential, most of the games in the series are oddly imbalanced and poorly paced. Though sometimes you'll find a level that really seems to put all the keys in the right locks (ie: R-Type III's third stage), you'll find them hidden among badly executed levels, causing one to wonder if IREM really knew what they were doing or sometimes just got lucky. Luckily Delta's the one game that got things right, with much better pacing.

Thunderforce (III and IV)-
Fast and cheap attacks on garish backgrounds with overly long boss battles (in IV) make the experience difficulty to enjoy, even if it fundamentally improves on some of the Gradius/R-Type flaws.

Donkey Kong Country-
A repetitive and strangely dull side-scroller: luckily it gave way to some better executed sequels.

Final Fight, Streets of Rage, and most beat-em-ups:
Occasionally interesting art direction, settings, and music aren't enough to overcome unforgivably monotonous, cheap play.

Star Fox (SNES)-
Perhaps too far ahead of its time for its own good, Star Fox suffers from frame-rate and collision problems that make it almost unplayable.

DOOM (PC)-
Restrictive mechanics and a sometimes poor presentation make it difficult to play for prolonged periods.

Zelda II-
Lacking the strong sense of intrigue and interactivity present in just about every other title in the series, Zelda II's oddly spliced gameplay ideas unfortunately do little to make up for it.