Battle Bakraid.... why?

[redeyeguy_KIO]

I'm just curious as to what is the general opinion about this game? I noticed that it seems to be a mix of both Garegga and Batrider, but with some other touches to it.

What I am really wondering is WHY this game appears to not be up to par with either Batrider or Garegga? I look at the top 25 shmup lists for a few years, and Bakraid never seems to make it past the honorable mentions. Is it simply not of the same caliber, and what's wrong with it compared to the other 2 titles? I personally found the game pretty enjoyable, but I haven't explored either of the 3 games enough to really know the major differences when it comes to high level play.

Please educate me on the subject.

[Jockel]

what's wrong with it compared to the other 2 titles? I personally found the game pretty enjoyable, but I haven't explored either of the 3 games enough to really know the major differences

you just answered your own question.
battle bakraid just pales in comparison and it lacks depth (when compared to the other games).
you couldn't experience the depth of the other two games, so you can't compare. its that simple.
play all some more and eventually you will understand.
that doesn't make bakraid a bad game at all, it's just not as good as the other two.
even though opinions may vary.

[FIL]

It's a very good game in its own right, but it's no Batrider.

[jpj]

never played it, but i gather it's a cross between garegga's medalling and rank control, and dodonpachi's enemy chaining system; but the worst of both worlds (...?). looks massively convoluted

[redeyeguy_KIO]

you couldn't experience the depth of the other two games, so you can't compare. its that simple.
play all some more and eventually you will understand.
that doesn't make bakraid a bad game at all, it's just not as good as the other two.
even though opinions may vary.

Ah yeah, I know. But really, I just wanted to see if this game is worth my time, both downloading and playing. I am saving up money to make a MAME arcade cabinet, and I only want the BEST shmups being the only available games on it.. including DDP, Garegga, ESPRaDe, Guwange, Giga Wing and Batrider (and once fully emulated, Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun as well). If Bakraid is simply not up to par with those, then I won't include it.

I probably should've stated that in my first post.

[lgb]

Bakraid is not a bad game, but it's not entirely like Garegga or Batrider.

[Jockel]

well it should be more than good enough to put a lousy rom on your computer ^^"

[clp]

Bakraid has a very very anal bizzarre scoring system , watching a top level player and see the sheer amount of suicides and chaining through out will help you see why i think its not as commonly ventured into with any depth like the others.

[BulletMagnet]

In some ways I like it better than Raizing's more frequently-lauded titles, since it can more easily be played "for survival" at first and gradually ease you into the scoring, as opposed to requiring you to understand how everything works from the get-go just to progress at all. The variety of planes is also nice, though the balance is a bit off (not as much as, say RFJ, but still a bit wonky).

That said, the presentation is painfully generic, and once you get into the high-level scoring it's even less intuitive than Garegga or Batrider. The whole lot is at least worth a play though.

[ZOM]

I like it but the scoring system is a bit uhm..."broken"; why put medal-chaining in the game if it's not worth it - getting high scores in BBakraid is only achieved by chaining enemies with a suiciding "exploit".

Still worth the download & time to set this in a MAME cab.

Also don't compare to Batrider - not much of a chance...

[LtC]

because it becomes a kamikaze bomber simulator the moment you start playing it for score.

suicide bombing through early levels worth: tens of millions.
fighting your way no missing the incredibly hard last boss with max life stock worth: priceless (30k)

[lgb]

fighting your way no missing the incredibly hard last boss with max life stock worth: priceless

Doesn't Garegga also have this, to an extent?

[kernow]

It looks like an atari ST game, or something I knocked up in MSPaint.

I don't know why , can't dig raizing at all, but love Ibara.

Dimahoo is alright too.

[MathU]

I can't stand Bakraid because of its revolting scoring system. It's even worse than Dodonpachi's.

[neorichieb1971]

I like Bakraid for the ride. If you have that jump in mentality, the music and feel of the game is very good. I prefer these kind of shmups overall.


Batrider put me off. I didn't like its Japanese presentation with the menu's and the colour schemes clashed with my eye's somehow. I couldn't work out what was going on.

Garegga, well I played the Saturn version. I thought this looked more 8 bit than ever. I preferred Strikers gameplay. Garegga has a lot of unnecessary play mechanics. To me it makes the game feel broken, but to others, they see it as more of a challenge.

[Momijitsuki]

This thread sparked the desire to try Bakraid for the first time today, and I liked it a hell of a lot more than Garegga, which I can't stand. I guess my opinion doesn't really mean shit since I'm no expert at shmups, but I'm really enjoying it. Maybe it's because I can actually see the damn bullets.

[`Throwdown]

meh, I enjoy it. Free ROMs FTW.

[LtC]

fighting your way no missing the incredibly hard last boss with max life stock worth: priceless

Doesn't Garegga also have this, to an extent?

At least you can milk the last boss to some extent there.

just kidding, you can do it in bakraid too. each projectile is worth delicious 10 points and missile 200 points during the final boss.


But Bakraid would be propably be really high on the list if its scoring system wasn't so broken. I can't help but wonder if they actually wanted the multiplier timer to freeze when you die. Well at least these bakraid superplays are comedy gold and always manage to make me laugh.

[Ruldra]

That Bakraid superplay makes me barf, actually. What a horrible way to play a shmup.

For everyone who haven't watched it yet: http://www.super-play.co.uk/index.php?superplay=275

[Dave_K.]

I've always had Bakraid in my top 25 list. It does not get the attention it deserves because the scoring system is a departure from the norm (aka Garegga), an attempt at being innovative with accessibility and rank mechanics, but ultimately failing to please the masses. Pink Sweets ended up much the same way, although Yagawa went hog wild on both vectors, rendering it virtually unplayable for most.

I like it but the scoring system is a bit uhm..."broken"; why put medal-chaining in the game if it's not worth it - getting high scores in BBakraid is only achieved by chaining enemies with a suiciding "exploit".

Not to pick on ZOM, but I just find it fascinating that most people still don't understand this game, and call suicides (and infinite lives in Pink Sweets) "exploits".

[Twiddle]

you're not supposed to die in shmups for any reason! exploit!

*can't pass stage 3 of any shmup*

[evil_ash_xero]

This thread sparked the desire to try Bakraid for the first time today, and I liked it a hell of a lot more than Garegga, which I can't stand. I guess my opinion doesn't really mean shit since I'm no expert at shmups, but I'm really enjoying it. Maybe it's because I can actually see the damn bullets.

Play the "Denmark/China" version. It is in "Red Ball" mode, which makes most of the bullets look normal. I didn't like the game at all until I did this.




As for opinion on Bakraid...I used to like it a lot, but after I got the hang of Garegga(see above), it kinda made Bakraid look weak. It's not quite as interesting gameplay-wise, but what really hurts it is it's look. It's too generic. I have problems with some of APB's designs, but you can't deny that it has a ton of personality. Bakraid just looks "there".

It's weird too, because they had the run of Garegga, Soukyu, and APB, then Dimahoo afterward(brave blade is a bad stab at polygons, so i'm not counting it). Between those, it just looks really dull. Did their usual design people not work on it or what?


s/m

[Acid King]

The score system isn't broken, people just don't like it. It's got a steep learning curve, but once you understand it the game actually opens up a lot. It becomes quite easy to improvise chains through sections of the game once you learn how the timer works and what enemies extend the chain. But before you get the freedom to do that, you have to learn how to do the milking trick on the first boss. Once you can get consistent at that, it's pretty great.

Bakraid's a game that people seem to have a lot of preconceived notions about. Read about the scoring system, watch a replay, play it for a bit and decide it sucks or is busted or something. Rank control is not a priority, medal chaining is secondary in importance to score to enemy chaining but has the potential to really jack up your score score when you do start to get chaining routes going (when a 64x multiplier is active, 10000 pt medals become 100000 pts), and chaining during stages is not nearly as strict as other enemy chaining games like Dodonpachi.

[kengou]

I like Bakraid for being much easier and more accessible when playing for survival, compared to Raizing's other games. The scoring system though, as many have said, seems ridiculous and broken to me. While it certainly appears to be deep and rewarding to those that want to put the time into it, I have a feeling that half the stuff you do for a good score in that game is stuff Raizing didn't even intend. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's just the feeling I get from watching the superplay of it. It's enough to turn me off of learning that scoring system.

[professor ganson]

Bakraid is tops for straight-up shooting fun. I prefer Garegga and Dimahoo for scoring and aesthetically, but I prefer Bakraid for pick-up-and-play shmup heaven. Batrider is ugly and tedious for me. Souky seems very diffferent somehow. I love it as well.

[captpain]

Bakraid is tops for straight-up shooting fun. I prefer Garegga and Dimahoo for scoring and aesthetically, but I prefer Bakraid for pick-up-and-play shmup heaven. Batrider is ugly and tedious for me. Souky seems very diffferent somehow. I love it as well.

So what's ugly and tedious about Batrider? The colorful, creative graphics and the nonstop fast-paced gameplay? The humorous tone and the fun music?

[Herr Schatten]

Bakraid is tops for straight-up shooting fun.

This. Once you get into scoring, it loses some of its appeal to me, though.

[THE]

Batrider is ugly and tedious for me. Souky seems very diffferent somehow. I love it as well.

[professor ganson]

Yeah, I said it. I think Rich said it above as well. Batrider definitely is not my thing aesthetically, and (partly for that reason) I haven't been able to get into the gameplay the way I have with Bakraid, Garegga, Dimahoo, and Souky. But I realize that's strage of me; I don't expect others to agree.

What I was saying in the quote just above is that Souky seems very different from other Raizing games. I haven't had time to think about why beyond: it just looks and plays very different from the rest, imo.

[kernow]

I can't stand Batrider's aesthetics either, I don't get what all the hype is about with that game. I know its got a lot to it , but .. I just can't dig it no matter how many times I try it.

If I actually owned it and had it in my cab to play I might have a different opinion. I don't know.