Essential Cave Shooters on 360

Daika110 · Post by **Daika110** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:05 pm

I'm deciding whether to purchase a JAP 360 so I'd like to hear what you think are the essential Cave shooters that have already been released in Japan. Secondly, what is the best place to buy the console and the games? NCSX?

I would also appreciate some comments on the 5pb ports of some of the Cave shooters (dodonpachi, Ketsui) as I've read they are not very good and that dodonpachi even had to be pulled from the market due to bugs.

Thanks!!

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:14 pm

there have only been 2 cave releases thus far for the ntsc-j 360....DDP DOJ BLEX and deathsmiles....

DOJBLEX was 5pb....its crap....some people like it, but the ps2 DOJ port was better

deathsmiles was published by cave....overall consensus seems to be that it is a fairly faithful port and people seem to like it

ketsui hasnt been released yet....it is also 5pb, so will most likely suck hard....

if you flip through the first couple pages of this forum you will see threads that answer all your questions....search function is your friend

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:24 pm

jonny5 wrote: DOJBLEX was 5pb....its crap....some people like it, but the ps2 DOJ port was better

Why is DDPDOJBLEX crap? Sure there are awful load times, but the game itself (black label and X mode) are quite serviceable and very enjoyable.

From CAVE_STG:

Quote from: EOJ on May 23, 2009, 05:13:04 AM wrote: As I said, BL is a pretty accurate port. There are long initial loads (be sure to install the game to a hdd - it reduces the loads by a significant amount (they're still too long though)), the replays don't work right, and the menu system isn't very intuitive (or even very responsive all the time), but if you're just looking to play BL, this port is acceptable. Better than the Ibara port in terms of accuracy.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:27 pm

i was referring more in terms of appearance....the ps2 version looks and plays better.....

sure this has a new mode and BL, but if you already have the ps2 version i would give it a pass

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:33 pm

black label looks pretty much as good as the arika port on a crt through rgb scart . the loading times ,practise mode and menus are total garbage but black label is a more fun game than the o.g for me cos of the slightly easier difficulty and i prefer the hypers coming down earlier. once your in the main game it's all cool .
i still haven't played long enought to unlock xmode tho been playing too much death smiles and enjoying this weeks sunshine.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:37 pm

DOJ lacks the most basic things like a comprehensible interface and an actually useful practice mode. Also, I tried playing it on a 17" TATE CRT which I normally use for PCBs and PS2 games, and it doesn't look anywhere near as good as DOJ for the PS2 does on it. The options (such as checking the leaderboards) are oddly configured (using the back button to go back isn't normally how people navigate menus, despite the logic in it, it throws you off) and they're also unresponsive. As in, you press them, and nothing happens. Also the leaderboards have somehow managed to confuse descending and ascending, because the high scores at listed at the bottom. I can't recommend this port until they patch it, which has no date.

Death Smiles is a great port, and there's a patch coming soon. MBL has also been released for 1400 Japanese Microsoft points; I'm a big fan of ver1.1, see my latest blog entry in my signature for more on that. The patch will fix a few notable issues like the laser still being read with the game installed to the HDD, and will bring the ability to upload and download MBL replays, as well as an MBL training mode.

I'm hoping they also fix the buggy achievement system it currently has - 1ccing ver1.1 in Score Attack won't unlock the achievement, nor does beating any of the bosses in Score Attack unlock their respective achievements.

Ketsui's going to be bad, yeah.

Futari's announced, but the likelihood of it being released before the end of 2009 is very slim. I expect that there's going to be an upgraded Xbox 360 mode like Death Smiles has, as well as an arrange mode which I'm really looking forward to. Not that Futari needs upgrading, I own the PCB and it looks perfectly fine the way it is.

That pretty much sums up all Cave titles on the 360 so far.

jonny5 wrote:search function is your friend

no it isn't

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:46 pm

Elixir wrote:
jonny5 wrote:search function is your friend
no it isn't

very true...although the threads in question are pretty much all on the first 2 pages anyway

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:08 pm

jonny5 wrote:the next 5pb made port hasnt been released yet....it is KETSUI, so it should hardly be sucking....

^^fixed

Hopefully, there will be an LE with complimentary top hat.

Edit: Too funny edit.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:18 pm

if it looks like BLEX it will suck imo.....

ncp · Post by **ncp** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:24 pm

Every time I hear a complaint about DOJBLEX it's about unintuitive menus or loading times. Does anyone actually care about the gameplay? I've heard there are inaccuracies in the ports, but nobody here even seems to give a damn about them, or even know what they are, for that matter

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:31 pm

you obviously didnt read the BLEX thread.....they go into quite a bit of detail about the flaws

like i said....my main issue was how it looked.....playing on a 29"CRT it looked like garbage compared to the arika ps2 port

the graphics looked all smoothed out like playing stuff at 480p in mame....eeeeew

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:39 pm

ncp wrote:Every time I hear a complaint about DOJBLEX it's about unintuitive menus or loading times. Does anyone actually care about the gameplay? I've heard there are inaccuracies in the ports, but nobody here even seems to give a damn about them, or even know what they are, for that matter

This is the forum where people reccommend the psx port of dodonpachi(for the better graffix) over the saturn when you cant even chain the first level midboss in the psx version..
i think that says it all.

adversity1 · Post by **adversity1** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:49 pm

ncp wrote:Every time I hear a complaint about DOJBLEX it's about unintuitive menus or loading times. Does anyone actually care about the gameplay? I've heard there are inaccuracies in the ports, but nobody here even seems to give a damn about them, or even know what they are, for that matter

For the record, players have encountered glitches in the second loop of the game which caused the game to crash. If you work hard enough to get to the second loop in DOJ and then have your game crash and your score dissappear, you too would either smash the thing or wait for a goddamn patch which seems like it will never come.

ncp · Post by **ncp** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:51 pm

I've read the thread, if I remember correctly it was mostly people complaining about lack of scanlines? You'd think this was an FPS forum with all the people complaining about graphics over gameplay.

Look at myself, defending an inaccurate port. Never thought I'd see the day. But I feel this one is receiving TOO much flak. Honestly, I'd like to see a Ketsui port but if the hate for 5pb is as bad over in Japan as it is here, that may get it cancelled. Or maybe we'll just get a port with FANTASTIC MENUS AND LEADERBOARDS, GLORIOUS FAKE SCANLINES, AND ULTRA-FAST LOADING TIMES, and inaccurate gameplay.

edit:

players have encountered glitches in the second loop of the game which caused the game to crash.

Yes I've heard about that. I haven't heard much about the frequency of the crash, and I think it only happens in White Label? Still, needs fixing no doubt, but urging people not to buy the port (as seen in this thread) when all of like TEN PEOPLE ON THE WHOLE FORUM (there are 6 2-X scores on the hi scores table, and I'm fairly certain a few others can) can actually reach the second loop of White Label is a little bit silly. For anyone just now getting the game, a patch would likely be out before they could ever come close to looping DOJ White Label (and if they're already good at the game, they probably have the PS2 white label, in which case, just play that, and use BLEX for Black Label and X-mode). That, or you could just stick to playing Black Label, which is supposed to be better anyway. (and supposedly a decently accurate port)

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:57 pm

as important as gameplay is, they are videogames....so the overall appearance of the game is important....

seeing a low res game brutalized with filtering and smoothing makes it tough to get into the gameplay

for me anyways

wiNteR · Post by **wiNteR** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:36 pm

You know there was this video linked here, where the bullets were actually passing through the hit box on stage 5 boss fight. And then there is also the ineffective practice mode. Certainly these might not be the deal breaker for everyone, but I don't see them as minor issues by any stretch.

And ofcourse if the more hardcore players complain about subtle issues of slowdown and port accuracy, it is their right imo. Personally I don't have much problem with more advanced or subtle inaccuracies.

Also, appearance does matter. I honestly want to play Ibara and Mushihimesama ports but simply can't get into them because of incomprehensible visuals.

ncp · Post by **ncp** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:00 pm

wiNteR wrote:You know there was this video linked here, where the bullets were actually passing through the hit box on stage 5 boss fight. And then there is also the ineffective practice mode. Certainly these might not be the deal breaker for everyone, but I don't see them as minor issues by any stretch.

And ofcourse if the more hardcore players complain about subtle issues of slowdown and port accuracy, it is their right imo. Personally I don't have much problem with more advanced or subtle inaccuracies.

Also, appearance does matter. I honestly want to play Ibara and Mushihimesama ports but simply can't get into them because of incomprehensible visuals.

Are you talking about this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB2HXd19CW8
This one boggles me. I don't understand what is happening here, to be honest. Is the hitbox detection bugging or something? Also the last 2 clips are pretty ridiculous. As far as I know these outrageous bugs only happen in White Label (from what I've read at least). Would people be happier if they had just not put White Label on it at all? Probably. I would, too, actually. I think if you're going to port something, do it right, and there's already a good port of it. However, until someone shows me that Black Label is incredibly bad or unplayable, I say buy DOJBLEX, play Black Label and X-mode, and give them a reason to make the damn patch (nobody's going to make a patch for a game that nobody has).

Slowdown and port accuracy are legit complaints, which was my whole reasoning for posting in this thread, I'd like to see people give LEGIT reasons for not buying it, instead of "bad menu, bad leaderboard, no scanlines".

I don't understand how you can really be THAT bothered by Ibara's and Mushi's port graphics to the point where you would not play them. That is outrageous, to me.

edit: I'm one a one-way path to forum hate today I think. I should probably take a break.

wiNteR · Post by **wiNteR** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:12 pm

Well the simple reason is that these ports are blurry to the point where they start to hinder gameplay. And I am one of those people who has never understood complaints about bad visibility in battle garegga.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:55 pm

ncp wrote:
wiNteR wrote:You know there was this video linked here, where the bullets were actually passing through the hit box on stage 5 boss fight. And then there is also the ineffective practice mode. Certainly these might not be the deal breaker for everyone, but I don't see them as minor issues by any stretch.

And ofcourse if the more hardcore players complain about subtle issues of slowdown and port accuracy, it is their right imo. Personally I don't have much problem with more advanced or subtle inaccuracies.

Also, appearance does matter. I honestly want to play Ibara and Mushihimesama ports but simply can't get into them because of incomprehensible visuals.
Are you talking about this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB2HXd19CW8
This one boggles me. I don't understand what is happening here, to be honest. Is the hitbox detection bugging or something? Also the last 2 clips are pretty ridiculous. As far as I know these outrageous bugs only happen in White Label (from what I've read at least). Would people be happier if they had just not put White Label on it at all? Probably. I would, too, actually. I think if you're going to port something, do it right, and there's already a good port of it. However, until someone shows me that Black Label is incredibly bad or unplayable, I say buy DOJBLEX, play Black Label and X-mode, and give them a reason to make the damn patch (nobody's going to make a patch for a game that nobody has).

Slowdown and port accuracy are legit complaints, which was my whole reasoning for posting in this thread, I'd like to see people give LEGIT reasons for not buying it, instead of "bad menu, bad leaderboard, no scanlines".

I don't understand how you can really be THAT bothered by Ibara's and Mushi's port graphics to the point where you would not play them. That is outrageous, to me.

edit: I'm one a one-way path to forum hate today I think. I should probably take a break.

the problem with those ports is they took gorgeous games and made them look really bad

same deal with BLEX

jp · Post by jp » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:49 pm

Insane load times aside, I haven't seen anything wrong with DDP:DOJ BL X. Its not like the Saturn port of DonPachi or anything.

Regardless, bring on Ketsui X!

Post by **spadgy** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:54 pm

I just got Death Smiles, and I can't get enough (and can't actually get enough time to play it!) - it's bloody brilliant, and the 360 visual makeover looks lovely (and you get the PCB version too). Amazing score.

Not sure on the port quality though, as I haven't played the PCB. Well worth getting though. Being a massive Progear fan, it's awesome to get some more Cave hori action.