Project 'Natal' - Microsoft's motion-sensing camera for 360

gigadrive32 · Post by **gigadrive32** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:36 pm

Natal - Intro
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09 ... atal/50013

Natal - Family Play
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09 ... atal/50018

Lionhead's Peter Molyneux 'Milo' Project for Natal
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09 ... milo/50016

Microsoft shows off motion-sensing game control, Project Natal
Dean Takahashi | June 1st, 2009

Trying to one-up Nintendo, Microsoft showed off a game control scheme where you use your body to control what happens in a game.

Dubbed Project Natal, the new game control system uses a 3-D depth camera to capture your movements in front of the TV and translate them into control actions for a game.

Don Mattrick, head of Microsoft’s game business, took the stage at the Microsoft press conference at the E3 game show to show off the system. Director Steven Spielberg came out on stage to praise Microsoft for showing off something that he had been dreaming about for many years.

“Before, there was a barrier separating video game players from everyone else,” Mattrick said.

Microsoft showed a video that showed how the game system could be used to control games such as fighting or skateboarding games. You can scan your own skateboard into a game and then use it to ride on in a skateboarding game. The aim is to get more people to play games who would otherwise be intimidated by a traditional game controller with tons of buttons. The idea is to make people feel more connected to a game, said Peter Molyneux, head of Microsoft’s Lionhead game division. Molyneux showed a game above, dubbed Milo, where you can interact with a little boy, a virtual character, and explore a world with your own body movements.

You can use the system to control your Xbox Live avatar, or virtual character, on the TV screen. Hence, you can navigate through the Xbox 360’s dashboard using gestures captured by the camera. Microsoft showed off some demo games where you can paint pictures on the TV using swipes of your hands. Another game showed how you can also kick balls back and forth in a soccer-like simulation. You can also swoosh your hand through water and make it splash. Microsoft pointed out that you can’t do these things with similar accuracy with the Nintendo Wii.

We’ve reported that Microsoft acquired 3D depth camera maker 3DV Systems and is also working with Prime Sense, another 3D depth camera company. Microsoft is shipping game design tools for Project Natal today. As we reported, that means games with the system won’t be ready until late 2010.

http://venturebeat.com/2009/06/01/micro ... ect-natal/

many more articles on Natal

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/988/988693p1.html
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/988/988701p1.html
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-10253306-235.html
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58906
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/19801/Pro ... -Revealed/
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/Ga ... 630&page=1
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/t ... n_gau.html
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technol ... ofte3.html
http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=7948
http://www.gearlog.com/2009/06/e3_micro ... esture.php
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandte ... ystem.html
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/news.ph ... atal.phtml
http://gizmodo.com/5274319/xbox-360-ful ... ject-natal
http://www.developmag.com/news/32018/Mi ... ing-camera
http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=18682
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/micros ... r-xbox-360
http://www.endsights.com/2009/06/01/e3- ... ilo-shown/
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... wD98I2OGG0
http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRelea ... 115&EDATE=
http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... 67512899/1
http://360.kombo.com/article.php?artid=16504
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/E3-200 ... 17897.html
http://www.cnbc.com/id/31049821
http://www.electronista.com/articles/09 ... ect.natal/
http://www.gamefocus.ca/?nav=new&nid=5510
http://www.sunherald.com/prnewswire/story/1382447.html
http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/133216 ... ect-Natal/
http://www.azcentral.com/business/consu ... er-ON.html
http://www.neowin.net/news/gamers/09/06 ... ject-natal
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/be924724-4ed3 ... 10621.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology ... -21407558/
http://www.slipperybrick.com/2009/06/mi ... -xbox-360/

Post by **nZero** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:42 pm

shmups IRC wrote:[17:39:45] <victoly> I don't think there are enough links in that post
[17:39:53] <victoly> I could still manage to not mistake it for spam
[17:40:09] <nimitz> what the
[17:40:13] <nimitz> the guy has 218 posts?
[17:40:16] <Udderdude> huh
[17:40:42] <LaserGun> what the fuck
[17:41:08] <P_Hat> <victoly>: ultimate x360 fanboy
[17:41:12] <KOA> what the hell, this guy must be
[17:41:13] <KOA> ...
[17:41:15] <Ghegs> Good lord
[17:41:16] <KOA> yeah, what p_hat said

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:18 pm

I burst out laughing when I saw that kid have his skateboard "scanned" by the console. It's nice that they're trying to add a larger variety of things to do to a wider audience, but no, sorry, this is bullshit. Apparently in order to appeal to everyone you have to strip game from itself.

The one thing the DS and Wii taught me is that these gimmicks don't work. The Wii's motion capturing of the Wiimote and the touchscreen of the DS, which developers just needlessly use with games that don't need them at all (Dawn of Sorrow comes to mind). No matter how much people want new "innovation" for their consoles, gamers currently are accustomed to using a pad/stick. I'm pretty sure most people on this forum, like myself, don't want that to change.

At least with the PS3, it allows you to use a USB Saturn pad without any modification whatsoever. Microsoft have managed to restrict their USB access, making it a pain in the ass to use whatever controller you want with the console. But there's the 360 controller, which in comparison to motion censors, is actually usable.

Plus, don't they realize that not everyone has a setup like the one in the vid? I have a tiny ass room which is why I stopped playing Wii Sports, and even then I did that wrong, since I just sat on my bed and waved my arms around like a paraplegic trying to flag down a taxi. The 360's getting a pretty strong library now, so of course Microsoft want to move on to something else. But I saw that this was integrated into the 360, so maybe it's just optional.

In short, I think this whole motion capturing thing is garbage, and I hope they don't remove what the 360 already has going for it. Something tells me that in 10 years time I'll be treasuring today's gaming age like people treasure the 90's.

The aim is to get more people to play games who would otherwise be intimidated by a traditional game controller with tons of buttons.

If someone's intimidated by that, they shouldn't be playing games.

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:29 pm

Meh - AWESOME INPUT LAG FOR TEH WIN!!

Seriously now, have enough lag with wireless controllers this gen; I don't even wanna know how & when that device registers movement.

What I can say after watching the conference live stream is that doesn't really work how it was intended to: on 2 instances in the demo the chick was foolin around with her legs and the 3d model moved his arms instead. -_-

antron · Post by **antron** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:37 pm

Porn Hero set for Q4 2010

it290 · Post by **it290** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:04 am

I love you guys. All the mainstream 'gamerz' I know are totally freaking out about this and a dozen other things right now, and I'm sitting here going 'meh'. Feels great to be old and cynical.

Ex-Cyber · Post by **Ex-Cyber** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:11 am

I'm not really against any of this stuff, but it's the kind of thing that should be a pack-in accessory that bumps the game price by $10 or so rather than being the basis for some kind of platform. If you can't make a game compelling enough to justify the extra $10, then you don't need a special controller.

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:27 am

antron wrote:Porn Hero set for Q4 2010

.....
You don't wanna know what images your post burned into my brain.

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:39 am

This is a controller for gamers so casual, they don't even play games. They want to flail in front of their TVs while an FMV plays for 30 minutes, and at the end of it, it says "YUO WIN!!!!1".

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:58 am

You could have a game where hot naked babes contort according to your wanking frequency!

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:58 am

CIT wrote: You could have a game where hot naked babes contort according to your wanking frequency!

We have a winner!

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:15 am

These were posted on another forum...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXN7vLPsDSM&fmt=18
http://www.vimeo.com/4952629

No_not_like_Quake · Post by **No_not_like_Quake** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:15 am

About as enjoyable as an enema is my first reaction to the idea of this thing.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:25 am

This is technology not gaming. It would better suited to a NASA demonstration guiding a pod into a dock rather than a gaming console.

Excellent technology, they should give it to mobile/cell owners with no friends.

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:37 am

Microsoft sucks and everything they've ever made sucks. Therefore, I can induce that this thing is going to suck.

Lordstar · Post by **Lordstar** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:28 am

i was under the impression that the wii was only played by celebs (like on the adverts) does this mean that I will get to play more of them on XBOX now that it has a waggle box added to it?

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:00 pm

It's the fucking Eyetoy all over again!

There is nothing innovative about this. Whoever keeps on rabbling about how awesome this is (there are some folks who do, you know.) deserves to be dragged by the balls on the street and then savagely raped by rabid wolverines.

IT'S. THE. FUCKING. EYETOY. AGAIN.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:06 pm

kengou wrote:Microsoft sucks and everything they've ever made sucks. Therefore, I can induce that this thing is going to suck.

HEL YA FUCK M$!!!!!! haha, windows? more like lunix. save the trees. *fistpumps, listens to creed*

The n00b · Post by **The n00b** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:38 pm

Elixir wrote:
kengou wrote:Microsoft sucks and everything they've ever made sucks. Therefore, I can induce that this thing is going to suck.
HEL YA FUCK M$!!!!!! haha, windows? more like lunix. save the trees. *fistpumps, listens to creed*

You nerds better be posting from a linux desktop.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:41 pm

It seems there's a brazilian in the project, that's why it's called "Natal"

Natal = Christmas in portuguese. Also, it's a town here in Brazil , where this guys was born.

or so I was told.

Not that this makes it more interesting at all.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:45 am

And yet head tracking continues to be too forward thinking for these companies.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:31 pm

I wouldn't want to play all my games this way, but this looks incredible. IGN tried it out, and it works, it was demoed in the MS press conference, and IMO, it's just one step closer to virtual reality. This is not the eye toy-with Sony's Wii-Mote, you still have to buy the eye toy. Natal scans your whole body!

I see this as pretty revolutionary, not a gimmick.

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:02 pm

i don't see this benefiting genres I play, and Im too lazy to care about any "cool" fitness software that may come out. Sure games that could have never been created may now surface, but that only matters if you care.

If this was the Saturn era and Myst used something like this then you could have won me over.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:38 pm

agustusx wrote:i don't see this benefiting genres I play, and Im too lazy to care about any "cool" fitness software that may come out. Sure games that could have never been created may now surface, but that only matters if you care.

If this was the Saturn era and Myst used something like this then you could have won me over.

Yeah, I think it's cool, but I don't really care about playing games with it. Still, it is a very interesting leap forward in technology.

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:41 pm

Too much bullshot. I don't trust it.

Post by **nZero** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:18 pm

damakable · Post by **damakable** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:28 am

dave4shmups wrote:I wouldn't want to play all my games this way, but this looks incredible. IGN tried it out, and it works, it was demoed in the MS press conference, and IMO, it's just one step closer to virtual reality. This is not the eye toy-with Sony's Wii-Mote, you still have to buy the eye toy. Natal scans your whole body!

I see this as pretty revolutionary, not a gimmick.

It looks like a good attempt to synthesize a bunch of existing ideas -- motion capture, voice recognition, face/object recognition -- the kind of input required by virtual/augmented reality. Milo looks like a creative way to use that information, and I can imagine that if every character in an RPG had the same data available to them you could make some interesting things happen. I'm familiar with Molyneux's/Lionhead's reputation for promising the moon and delivering... well, interesting and playable but not exactly revolutionary games. In fact I don't even really care about using this kind of technology for games at all. Create a piece of tutor software that will teach a child to read (that they can ask questions to directly, show their homework etc.) and I'll be impressed, though.

Generally I think this kind of computer vision / real-world input stuff is more useful for robots ... security ... communications ... education. Anything that has a bit more context, and responds with real-world output. I also think the only thing special about Natal, really, is that it's a commercial product... lots of other people are working on all these problems. That said there are obviously interesting applications of this, directions it could go.

I'm sure there will be literally tons of terrible minigames released for this that basically amount to 'waggle' mechanics: jump at the right time, or swing your arms around, to win. Not to mention dating sims. (Crap, I just lost The Game!)

Crap. </lame>

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:57 am

My 2 cents -

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09 ... atal/50013

This video is utterly ridiculous. For a start you need a front room the size of a gymnasium. The idea of standing up in front of the screen is not my cuppa. The fact that you need to wave your arms about and do high kicks means only those who can kick that high can play it. I don’t think any 25 stone guy is going to be good at that game.

Best bit of the video (for comedic value) was family doing pit stop and saying “Your tyres are toast, go in for a pit stop”, which was so gay looking I would be ashamed to show anyone that in real life. There was no way that woman was driving that good. I’ve never seen a girl race that good in my life. (Staged).

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09 ... milo/50016

This video looks staged. I find it hard to believe the Xb360 has enough memory to hold every single response to every single word so seamlessly. Not to mention the ability to display graphics that don’t skip a frame that industrial light and magic would be proud of. This demo seemed a little too “star trek” and too little NASA to me. When the product is released I would expect something to the effect of “I don’t understand what you just said, can you repeat that” to 80% of your conversation.

Now the negatives are out of the way –

The first video would be better incorporated into a touch screen type interface. Playing war games and such would be excellent. Using that tech in the dash board of the xbox would be really cool too.

The 2nd video. Well, the first game should be called “I need to see a shrink” where you can tell the kid your life troubles or something. As with any AI, the personality is going to be wooden and somewhat predictable after a few days. I don’t think its clever enough to evolve over time, or remember anything you said in previous conversations. If it could, that would be scary, but rather impressive. In movies these sort of practices are done on mainframe computers many times the size of a house and faster than light.

Again, this is all good technology and whatever comes out of E3 is usually on the market within 3 years (MGS2 being the longest running showpiece of 3 E3’s before debut effectively killing the Dreamcast on its own before the PS2 launched). I truly believe the final product will be watered down, be very clunky in operation and will not be representative of the final video we just saw.

I think the eyetoy on the PS3 is really good and it doesn’t do nearly as good a job as that camera on the video does motion capture. Again it feels like 5-10 years has past in a week as its so slick looking.

Only time will tell.

Gungriffon Geona · Post by **Gungriffon Geona** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:07 am

The n00b wrote:
Elixir wrote:
kengou wrote:Microsoft sucks and everything they've ever made sucks. Therefore, I can induce that this thing is going to suck.
HEL YA FUCK M$!!!!!! haha, windows? more like lunix. save the trees. *fistpumps, listens to creed*
You nerds better be posting from a linux desktop.

On a PS3 powered by the tears of orphans!

My only real reaction to this thread is 'Well BAM there it is!'
Why there's any other response than that is beyond me.

D · Post by D » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:39 am

All these things are all nice and all, but how about we get back to making cool arcade games. Platformers, shmups, fighting games, racing games, arcade flight games.
Remember way back when developers had hardware limitations etc. Well, there not there anymore, more arcade games damnit and not bullshit games with a so called arcade mode thrown in. fuk that!