Gradius series evolution

[FatCobra]

Kind of a spinoff from the old school vs manic shmups thread, after playing the Gradius 3&4 and Gradius 5, I've realized that while the series on a whole hasen't changed much, each game had something new added to it.

Gradius - Well, it's the first of it's kind so....it started the whole series.

Gradius 2 - Allowed the player to pick between four(?) different weapon setups.

Gradius 3 - Introduced the Weapon Edit Mode.

Gradius 4 - Ummmm....the first Gradius to use polygons?

Gradius 5 - Where we are at today. Gradius V incorporates elements from Salamander series (instant respawn and 2p co-op), but adds new stuff as well, such as a small hitbox and option control.

[MSZ]

2p co-op can be found in Gradius Gaiden, so its not anything new. But of course not all western people have played Gaiden before.

[SheSaidDutch]

Gaiden.....Gaiden

Fat Cobra- You need Gaiden in your collection

[llabnip]

Gaiden.....Gaiden

Fat Cobra- You need Gaiden in your collection

Agreed! I really enjoy Gradius V, but Gradius Gaiden is the best Gradius out there...

[Nei First]

Gradius 4 - Ummmm....the first Gradius to use polygons?

I swear Gradius Gaiden was the first to use polygons.

[SheSaidDutch]

Gaiden.....Gaiden

Fat Cobra- You need Gaiden in your collection

Agreed! I really enjoy Gradius V, but Gradius Gaiden is the best Gradius out there...

I haven't tried V yet myself

Nei First-- I'm not too sure, but the graphic style on both Gaiden and Salamander 2 look sort of pre-rengeredish to me. I'm really not sure theres something about it but I just dont know what.

[Super Laydock]

Gaiden.....Gaiden

Fat Cobra- You need Gaiden in your collection

Agreed! I really enjoy Gradius V, but Gradius Gaiden is the best Gradius out there...

I said it before and will say it again: Gradius 2 MSX (unofficially ported to the X68000 as Nemesis '90 Kai) is the best Gradius!

Shame not too many people have played this one.
Also I still wonder why Gradius V is "V" and not "VII" (if you count all console games and leave out the handheld ones there are 7 Gradii!)

Gradius 1
Gradius 2 (MSX/X6800)
Gradius 2 Gopher
Gradius 3
Gradius 4
Gradius Gaiden
Gradius V

[SheSaidDutch]

Do you mean the unofficial port or the official port?

[Super Laydock]

Do you mean the unofficial port or the official port?

I mean the MSX original (which is the ONLY official version made by Konami! Does someone know if the - later to be called - Treasure team was behind this one? ).

I have only played the original version on the MSX and I just mentioned the fan made port for refference. AFAIK the '90 Kai version is the same game just with better graphics,it did not have Konami involved.

Flying into the bosses cores after defeating them opened short special stages
and another nice touch is you get to play as Pentarou (shooting with fishes) instead if Vic if the Penguin Adventure cart is in the second cartslot.

[SheSaidDutch]

Nemesis 90 Kai was made by SPS

[Super Laydock]

Ok guess I mixed up some info there and made a mistake in calling '90 Kai the unofficial version.

There are two versions for the X68000:

1. the officially released (but made by SPS and not Konami which only released it) Nemesis '90 Kai. This version apparently features added stuff over the MSX version.

2. a fan made conversion of the original MSX Gradius 2, which is the same but with better graphics.

Anyway I only have played the original MSX version and, while I could see the fanmade or the updated official one being even better versions of the game, I truly think this is the best Gradius!

[Zach Keene]

Also I still wonder why Gradius V is "V" and not "VII" (if you count all console games and leave out the handheld ones there are 7 Gradii!)

At least 8 if you're gonna count the MSX titles; Gofer no Yabou Episode II on the MSX is a different game than the arcade Gradius 2: Gofer no Yabou.

Does someone know if the - later to be called - Treasure team was behind this one?

Unlikely; contrary to popular belief the Treasure founders were actually split up while they were at Konami.

[MSZ]

At least 8 if you're gonna count the MSX titles

At least 10 if you count the Gameboy/GBA titles too. Its called Gradius V becasue its not a "side story" like Gaiden, Salamander 2 or Gradius Generation according to Konami themselves.

[Super Laydock]

At least 8 if you're gonna count the MSX titles

At least 10 if you count the Gameboy/GBA titles too. Its called Gradius V becasue its not a "side story" like Gaiden, Salamander 2 or Gradius Generation according to Konami themselves.

Please note I mentioned only counting the non handheld games in my original post. Also there are 3 Handheld Gradii afaik.

[Turrican]

Please note I mentioned only counting the non handheld games in my original post. Also there are 3 Handheld Gradii afaik.

You certainly understand that your counting criteria is as arbitrary as Konami's.

[Turrican]

Ok guess I mixed up some info there and made a mistake in calling '90 Kai the unofficial version.

There are two versions for the X68000:

1. the officially released (but made by SPS and not Konami which only released it) Nemesis '90 Kai. This version apparently features added stuff over the MSX version.

Yeah, well, being made by a third party doesn't make it unofficial, just like Mobile 21's Gradius Advance or Treasure's Gradius V. And besides, do you really think Konami just published and left all the programming work to SPS? I find this hard to believe, I mean, who the heck are SPS, I just remember a tennis game and pachi's ports from them.

[Super Laydock]

Please note I mentioned only counting the non handheld games in my original post. Also there are 3 Handheld Gradii afaik.

You certainly understand that your counting criteria is as arbitrary as Konami's.

You have a point! I guess Konami considered Gaiden as well as either Gopher or the MSX game side stories...

Yeah, well, being made by a third party doesn't make it unofficial, just like Mobile 21's Gradius Advance or Treasure's Gradius V. And besides, do you really think Konami just published and left all the programming work to SPS? I find this hard to believe, I mean, who the heck are SPS, I just remember a tennis game and pachi's ports from them.

I actually stated that the SPS/Konami effort was official after initially mistaken the Kai as being the fan made conversion.

And about Konami being involved or not... I know they made the MSX version themselves and the mentioning of SPS sounds to me like they were the ones porting it for Konami and adding some stuff. I sure believe they discussed the changes and had quality control over the game but I can imagine SPS doing all the coding on this one...
Just a guess though. Somebody got more info on this?

[Turrican]

And about Konami being involved or not... I know they made the MSX version themselves and the mentioning of SPS sounds to me like they were the ones porting it for Konami and adding some stuff. I sure believe they discussed the changes and had quality control over the game but I can imagine SPS doing all the coding on this one...
Just a guess though. Somebody got more info on this?

First of, I'm ashamed to say I have yet to play both, so take my two cents with a grain of salt. But I wonder if it's correct to speak about '90 Kai as a "port"... Between the MSX and the X68k there's a huge gap, and they surely redrawn all the in-game graphics to say the least. So I'd probably use the term "remake": that is, they retained most levels layouts and such, but they also pretty much did many things new from scratch. I'm just assuming though.

[BrianC]

Gofer no Yabou/Nemesis III MSX doesn't count? It's definatly a Gradius game and it has elements from Nemesis II/Gradius II MSX.

[CMoon]

I think the issue is some of those games were basically 'remixes' of already existing cames and they aren't considered new installments in the canon, rather, fun variations for consoles. Of course with that said, many of the 'official' new installments in the canon play like remixes themselves...

[Dartagnan1083]

Not a single treasure employee worked on a Gradius title at konami before Gradius V.
There was one guy that worked on Axelay, while another two worked on Thunder Cross II.