shmupfight #3: Shikigami no Shiro 3 Vs. Mushihimesama Futari

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:42 pm

professor ganson wrote:It makes no sense at all to me that Shiki 2 dropped off the top 25 this year.

This man speaks the truth.

clp · Post by **clp** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:45 pm

Elixir wrote:
Shelcoof wrote:lol
I came here to post this. Comparing Futari to Shiki 3 is just rude, you might as well compare Garegga to Pink Sweets while you're at it. No actually that would make some sense, this doesn't. Shiki 3's nothing like Futari.

I own both Shiki 3 on 360 and Futari 1.5 and I'll have to go with Futari. There's a bunch of things I dislike about both games but Shiki 3's level design and music just isn't notable at all. In retrospect, they both have mediocre first stages, and while Shiki 3 has a bunch of characters to choose from, people are only going to be using Reika or Kuga just like most people will end up using Normal Reko or Abnormal Palm in Futari.

Looking at our very own shiki 3 board id say theres a bit more variety in character choice than you say.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu May 28, 2009 4:26 pm

ncp wrote:I'm curious, and this is almost somewhat on topic: how fast is Futari's Original compared to Mushi's? Maniac is easier for me than Original on Mushi... "This is supposed to be a Cave game, there's not supposed to be bullets traveling 5 screenlengths per millisecond."

original is a lot harder in futari, and there is a rank effect in place too which rises as long as you don't die/bomb. no-missing up to the fifth stage, the bullets are lightning quick. even if you don't no-miss it's pretty hectic, and very exhilirating to play

i can no-miss mushi's original mode; but i can only clear futari's with one or two (or zero) extra lives. although dying and losing a big chunk of your game-long multiplier in futari is a real heartbreaker

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Thu May 28, 2009 6:00 pm

emphatic wrote:
professor ganson wrote:Nearly anyone motivated enough to have actually played Futari is likely to be a fanboy, so the vote is going to be off. A better comparison, imo, is Shiki 2 vs. Mushi. It makes no sense at all to me that Shiki 2 dropped off the top 25 this year.
"Nearly anyone"?

I borrowed it from Runefaust for a long time, as I can't afford it myself, but it's a blast EVERY TIME.. I've had Shikigami 3 for my Wii for a couple of months (since it was new) and I never got the "this is fun, I even want to finish this credit" while playing it. I think I've played 1 full credit on it.

*scratches 1UP Mushroom shoulder tattoo*

ps: man i still envy you for your tatt. however i wouldn't get it myself since one gaming tattoo is enough.

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:05 pm

Jockel: Don't go all Twilight Zone on me!

msm · Post by **msm** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:18 pm

jpj wrote:original is a lot harder in futari, and there is a rank effect in place too which rises as long as you don't die/bomb. no-missing up to the fifth stage, the bullets are lightning quick. even if you don't no-miss it's pretty hectic, and very exhilirating to play i can no-miss mushi's original mode; but i can only clear futari's with one or two (or zero) extra lives. although dying and losing a big chunk of your game-long multiplier in futari is a real heartbreaker

that's interesting, i would have said it was the other way round i can't get anywhere on mushi original (ps2 - maybe that's the difference?) but once got to the last boss on futari 1.5 original

mulletgeezer · Post by **mulletgeezer** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:26 pm

I'd have to guess that nearly anyone motivated enough to have actually voted for Shiki 3 is actually a Cave hateboy who hasn't played MF much, if at all. Can anyone prove me wrong?

Really I'm surprised the voting is as close as it is - to me shmups are all about excitement and MF delivers on that front more than any other shmup of the last few years IMO. The only time I've played Shiki 3 was in the HEY - I think I made it to the end of the first stage but it was utterly bland and with all the exciting games around me I just had to leave my credit unfinished so I could play something else. I've played Shiki 2 again since but that was dull too.

clp · Post by **clp** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:54 pm

mulletgeezer wrote:I'd have to guess that nearly anyone motivated enough to have actually voted for Shiki 3 is actually a Cave hateboy who hasn't played MF much, if at all. Can anyone prove me wrong?

Really I'm surprised the voting is as close as it is - to me shmups are all about excitement and MF delivers on that front more than any other shmup of the last few years IMO. The only time I've played Shiki 3 was in the HEY - I think I made it to the end of the first stage but it was utterly bland and with all the exciting games around me I just had to leave my credit unfinished so I could play something else. I've played Shiki 2 again since but that was dull too.

as opposed to all the cave fan boys on this site who just vote for cave regardless of actually playing any of there games to any extent ? it comes down to preference we all know this so why does this pointless debate even exist .

RGC · Post by **RGC** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:58 pm

Hence I voted both games suck...I mean, they do right?!

rabble rabble

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu May 28, 2009 8:01 pm

i don't see it as a debate. it's just interesting to see what peoples thoughts are, do people agree with you or not, spark up a bit of discussion. two pages and no flames - what's the harm in a shiki 2 vs mushi thread now?

core · Post by **core** » Thu May 28, 2009 8:12 pm

jpj wrote:although dying and losing a big chunk of your game-long multiplier in futari is a real heartbreaker

That is the reason I suck at Futari. I get to the level 3 boss and hesitate to bomb then end up dying because of it. Then it is all downhill from there.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu May 28, 2009 11:13 pm

msm wrote: that's interesting, i would have said it was the other way round i can't get anywhere on mushi original (ps2 - maybe that's the difference?) but once got to the last boss on futari 1.5 original

maybe you've just gotten better as a player..?

neither of the original modes are particularly difficult, but all three modes in futari are definitely beefed up from their predecessor's counterparts. also in the first mushi's original mode, there isn't really a penalty for bombing, so once you have some strats worked out, reaching the stage 5 boss is not too tough

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Fri May 29, 2009 6:51 am

core wrote:
jpj wrote:although dying and losing a big chunk of your game-long multiplier in futari is a real heartbreaker
That is the reason I suck at Futari. I get to the level 3 boss and hesitate to bomb then end up dying because of it. Then it is all downhill from there.

That's because the 3rd boss is the hardest boss in the whole game.

powerfuran · Post by **powerfuran** » Fri May 29, 2009 8:11 am

I voted Futari, which I enjoyed very much during last autumn. Sticked with the 1.5 version though, as I found the Black Label being a very different game.

I love Shiki2, and because of that I was very excited when Shiki3 came out, but I was a little disappointed by its overall feeling. It has a peculiar skonec style (especially bullet patterns) that I think was very good in Psyvariar 2, but didn't work that well in Shiki 3.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Fri May 29, 2009 12:26 pm

mulletgeezer wrote:Really I'm surprised the voting is as close as it is - to me shmups are all about excitement and MF delivers on that front more than any other shmup of the last few years IMO. The only time I've played Shiki 3 was in the HEY - I think I made it to the end of the first stage but it was utterly bland and with all the exciting games around me I just had to leave my credit unfinished so I could play something else. I've played Shiki 2 again since but that was dull too.

I don't doubt that Futari packs in tons of excitement, but Shiki 3 is like Shiki 2 on steroids. The game is intense! You'll have to play beyond the first stage to realize that, though.

ForceDevice · Post by **ForceDevice** » Fri May 29, 2009 12:47 pm

professor ganson wrote: I don't doubt that Futari packs in tons of excitement, but Shiki 3 is like Shiki 2 on steroids. The game is intense! You'll have to play beyond the first stage to realize that, though.

QFT
As much as I like Shiki3, I do think the first stage is a bit lame, especially the midboss.

Momijitsuki · Post by **Momijitsuki** » Fri May 29, 2009 1:54 pm

I've never played Futari, but I like the original Mushihimesama far more than Shiki III.

I'd like Shiki III a lot more if it wasn't for that goddamn third stage and disappearing walls that kill you. That's so fucking cheap.

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Fri May 29, 2009 2:31 pm

I don't know why people gripe about that so much. The whole point is to keep you hitting those switch blocks to keep them visible. It's easy enough to avoid them if you aren't playing for score, and concentrate on the switches. The walls are also slightly visible even when they disappear. And if you are playing for score, you're gonna have to memorize the stage just like the other stages anyway.

Necronopticous · Post by **Necronopticous** » Fri May 29, 2009 3:02 pm

I couldn't help but think of this scene from Dirty Work.

msm · Post by **msm** » Sat May 30, 2009 12:37 am

jpj wrote:neither of the original modes are particularly difficult, but all three modes in futari are definitely beefed up from their predecessor's counterparts.

fair enough, i haven't played it in a while, will give it another go when i get the chance

Momijitsuki · Post by **Momijitsuki** » Sat May 30, 2009 12:46 am

MathU wrote:I don't know why people gripe about that so much. The whole point is to keep you hitting those switch blocks to keep them visible. It's easy enough to avoid them if you aren't playing for score, and concentrate on the switches. The walls are also slightly visible even when they disappear. And if you are playing for score, you're gonna have to memorize the stage just like the other stages anyway.

It's bad enough that I have to weave through bullet hell while squeezing through small areas. I shouldn't have to constantly be hitting a switch to make sure I can see what I'm squeezing through! >=O

third_strike · Post by **third_strike** » Sat May 30, 2009 1:07 am

God!
How can anyone speak too certainly about one game which never played seriously?
When you say:
Shiki 3 is like shiki 2 or stage 1 in shiki 3 sucks sounds very noob.

I shiki 3 scratch is only one complement more 80% of points come from HTM. Shiki 3 is about kill all very fast pretty like dangun feveron.
About stage one, shiki 3 have one thing derived from fist shiki: limited coin pull out or you can't trigger too many coins in same time.
Then now remember:
- You can't get hit after second suicide or your run end.
- You can't destroy several 1-1 boss part in same time or you will lose several points.
- You can't fail in second suicide (yes fail in suicide is very common) or you will fuck your score.
- You need kill all very fast or you don't will trigger all enemies (one second is too much) and will lose sereral points.
- Lose points = lose bomb stock = lose HTM = fuck heavenly seriously your score = pretty like no hyper in DOJ.
Cool!

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Sat May 30, 2009 1:34 am

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat May 30, 2009 2:08 am

third_strike wrote:God!
How can anyone speak too certainly about one game which never played seriously?
When you say:
Shiki 3 is like shiki 2 or stage 1 in shiki 3 sucks sounds very noob.

I shiki 3 scratch is only one complement more 80% of points come from HTM. Shiki 3 is about kill all very fast pretty like dangun feveron.
About stage one, shiki 3 have one thing derived from fist shiki: limited coin pull out or you can't trigger too many coins in same time.
Then now remember:
- You can't get hit after second suicide or your run end.
- You can't destroy several 1-1 boss part in same time or you will lose several points.
- You can't fail in second suicide (yes fail in suicide is very common) or you will fuck your score.
- You need kill all very fast or you don't will trigger all enemies (one second is too much) and will lose sereral points.
- Lose points = lose bomb stock = lose HTM = fuck heavenly seriously your score = pretty like no hyper in DOJ.
Cool!

despite the jilted english this guy knows what he is talking about

bsidwell · Post by **bsidwell** » Sat May 30, 2009 2:24 am

"fuck heavenly seriously your score" is basically the best phrase ever.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sat May 30, 2009 3:35 am

I've always been puzzled by the thought of suiciding in this one. How can you not need all your lives? Tough game.

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Sat May 30, 2009 3:55 am

bombs > lives

third_strike is a top player on this site, Plasmo needs to give him his own listing in the top western players board at cowboy forum

ave · Post by **ave** » Sat May 30, 2009 3:55 pm

Futari for obvious reasons

Shikigami is not bad at all, but compared to a stunner like MF (esp. Black Label) it's just not playing in the same league.

clp · Post by **clp** » Sat May 30, 2009 4:03 pm

Momijitsuki wrote:
MathU wrote:I don't know why people gripe about that so much. The whole point is to keep you hitting those switch blocks to keep them visible. It's easy enough to avoid them if you aren't playing for score, and concentrate on the switches. The walls are also slightly visible even when they disappear. And if you are playing for score, you're gonna have to memorize the stage just like the other stages anyway.
It's bad enough that I have to weave through bullet hell while squeezing through small areas. I shouldn't have to constantly be hitting a switch to make sure I can see what I'm squeezing through! >=O

man stage 3 isnt even hard it takes literally a few goes to figure it out , and its easy as hell to hit the orbs which light it up . Third strike is clearly one hell of a player since coming here a few months back hes made it to the top of the boards in nearly every game he plays .

third_strike · Post by **third_strike** » Sat May 30, 2009 5:29 pm

professor ganson wrote:I've always been puzzled by the thought of suiciding in this one. How can you not need all your lives? Tough game.

Is hard get points from scratching in this game, but with HTM you can 1UP easily. The general strategy in this game is:
- Suicide for get bomb stock.
- Kill all for get coins and points (it need be during HTM because during this mode you get 1,5 more coins than scratching in x8 ).
- Kill fast for trigger more enemies then get more coins and points.
- The HTM need be constant, don't kill without one active HTM.
- kill yourself in boss battle for get bomb stock.

Conclusion:
- kill and get coins will give for you the lost lives (for suicide in boss) and lost bomb stock.
- You have the great advantage of can lose lives during any boss battles (ex: The fucker Kagashi) and don't wast bombs in it.
- In end of each stage you have one bonus for reminiscing time in boss battle and for got coins in stage. Here is the KEY for your answer, after get too many coins you will 1UP during this bonus and any time will be close of next 1UP. Then next stage you will start with 2 lives, any times close of third one and with one full bomb stock for do it again.
- And one good thing during HTM start you have 1 second of invincibility for get aggressive and go through of bullets, halls, hard pattern...

Only for note here have one other Brazilian player which is very better player than me and have got some very nice stuffs, I am slow I have played underrated games for give it any suitable treatment.
Cool!

shmups.system11.org

shmupfight #3: Shikigami no Shiro 3 Vs. Mushihimesama Futari

Shikigame no Shiro 3 Vs. Mushihimesama Futari