JP Senko no Ronde Rev. X and the US version...

cyprien · Post by **cyprien** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:50 am

I have the US version already but I was finding some pretty cheap prices for the JP version around the net and I was wondering if there were any reasons I should/shouldn't pick it up?

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:20 am

I actually just bought the JP limited edition (yeah, I own the US one too) so I can add it to my import library. I'll let you know.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:17 am

Okay, well, I owe you one response.

The JP special version arrived at my door today. First thing I noticed was the box art, which is far superior to the US version:

US version

The LE has different box art from the normal JP version, though. Personally I like the LE box art over all other versions.

The game comes with a registration card (not shown), another kind of registration card and a pamphlet shown on the left. It's only two pages and it folds out like a binder, and it's talking about the Character Drama CD which is included in the LE.

Much like RFA and Raiden IV, it comes with the game in the middle (which I hate because it's awkward to get out) and the bonus disc at the back. I haven't bothered checking it out, but drama CDs are usually just where a bunch of seiyuu stockpile into a studio and hold a conversation.

The manual has a quick marquee-like list on the back of it, which beats the hell out of the US version's manual which is lacking a bunch of information on special moves. The JP version's manual is also full color, the US version is not.

As for the game itself though, it's virtually exactly the same as the US version apart from a few minor differences: "Xbox Live" is "Network" now. Oh, and it's entirely in Japanese, with English menus and Japanese dialogue boxes.

I feel sorta ripped off with the US version as I bought it (preordered, actually) from Play-Asia at $60, then it decided to plummet down to $10 within like, 6 months of release. The JP LE is nice, but there's no real advantage over the cheaper US version apart from collection's sake, or if you specifically wish to seek it out.

ex.machina · Post by **ex.machina** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:10 am

I originally got the Japanese version (normal + limited, limited one still sealed) and later picked up the US one as well when it dropped to like 10 bucks.

cyprien · Post by **cyprien** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:10 pm

Thanks for the replay Elixir! I'm interested in finding the Japanese movelist now to see what I'm missing out on. Any chance of a scan?

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:40 pm

I wouldn't bother with the JP version. The US version is region-free and plays the same. It's still bound to be very useful to have a JP 360 though, because it is extremely likely Senko 2 will get a 360 port but not a US release.

You have several options when it comes to movelist. The 360 port has a ton of unlockables, including arcade materials like movelist. Then there is a FAQ, don't know how good it is because I never really read it. Here is a scan of the back of the JP manual (edit: scanned by dai jou bu

). Finally, and it just occurred to me that I should have shared this years ago, here are some incredibly made fan strategy videos. Keep in mind that they are outdated, since they were made before any of the patches, but they're still useful for learning the mechanics:

Character vids 1 and 2
Mechanics vids 1 and 2

ex.machina · Post by **ex.machina** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:03 am

Enhasa wrote:I wouldn't bother with the JP version. The US version is region-free and plays the same. It's still bound to be very useful to have a JP 360 though, because it is extremely likely Senko 2 will get a 360 port but not a US release.

I doubt Ubisoft would pick up that one. Must have been one of their commercial least successful games. I think it price dropped like a week after release.

I'd love to solely blame it on the shitty cover art though.

bucklemyshoe · Post by **bucklemyshoe** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:38 am

cyprien wrote:I have the US version already but I was finding some pretty cheap prices for the JP version around the net and I was wondering if there were any reasons I should/shouldn't pick it up?

can you link to some of these cheap prices?

and I also agree US version cover art is just awful.

SFKhoa · Post by **SFKhoa** » Fri May 01, 2009 6:22 am

bucklemyshoe wrote:
cyprien wrote:I have the US version already but I was finding some pretty cheap prices for the JP version around the net and I was wondering if there were any reasons I should/shouldn't pick it up?
can you link to some of these cheap prices?

and I also agree US version cover art is just awful.

I'd like to see said link(s) as well.

mistcore · Post by **mistcore** » Mon May 04, 2009 7:40 pm

Where are the links for the cheap JPN version?

cyprien · Post by **cyprien** » Mon May 04, 2009 8:33 pm

Hey guys, totally forgot about this thread... -_-

This site, GameBaz.com had it on sale a few weeks ago for $35 but it seems it went back up when they ran out of new versions it looks like.

Here goes the direct link to the used copies...
http://www.gamebaz.com/?a=i&i=6870U

ex.machina · Post by **ex.machina** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:47 am

35$ isn't really that cheap compared to what the US one is selling for. If you don't mind to get a Platinum Collection version, the game sells for around $30-35 in most shops.

mistcore · Post by **mistcore** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:40 am

You would also have to take shipping in consideration, which makes it pretty much the same price.

dai jou bu · Post by **dai jou bu** » Sat May 16, 2009 4:56 am

Enhasa wrote: Here is a scan of the back of the JP manual.

Which was taken from my article on the game. Yeah, I've noticed some of my stuff from that page is being distributed by others and not giving me credit for the scans, which kinda sucks, but I suppose it's better that way since gamespy likes to randomly drop images from its servers, so it's better to have a backup somewhere just in case.

Also, better scans of the LE disc and stuff can be found here.

I'm... gonna go back to my lair now.

Shelcoof · Post by **Shelcoof** » Sat May 16, 2009 6:08 am

Read some really bad reviews of the game. Is it worth picking up?

dai jou bu · Post by **dai jou bu** » Sat May 16, 2009 7:13 am

Depends on your definition of "bad." It was received well enough in Japan that the sequel is coming out this July in arcades. There's still a few events going on for the first game on arcades as well.

Difficulty curve is pretty high considering that the foundation the game uses for its mechanics were essentially taken from Virtual On (which I find odd since the occasional review does mention this, but they still trash it anyway while praising the XBLA port of Virtual On) which never was mainstream so fighting game fans will scoff at it because it doesn't feel like a fighting game even though the HUD layout is the same as other titles in that genre and shmup players will be aggravated at it because it doesn't control like a shmup. The best way to think of it if you're coming from the latter is that you're controlling a boss character from a shmup title, since you have the strengths and weaknesses of them (ie- can't really move too well, can take a beating, have boss-like bullet patterns, can go into "spellcard mode" temporarily to overwhelm your opponent, etc.).

Shelcoof · Post by **Shelcoof** » Sat May 16, 2009 7:17 am

dai jou bu wrote:Depends on your definition of "bad." It was received well enough in Japan that the sequel is coming out this July in arcades. There's still a few events going on for the first game on arcades as well.

Difficulty curve is pretty high considering that the mechanics it's using were essentially taken from Virtual On, which never was mainstream so fighting game fans will scoff at it because it doesn't feel like a fighting game even though the HUD layout is the same as other titles in that genre and shmup players will be aggravated at it because it doesn't control like a shmup. The best way to think of it if you're coming from the latter is that you're controlling a boss character from a shmup title, since you have the strengths and weaknesses of them (ie- can't really move too well, can take a beating, have boss-like bullet patterns, can go into "spellcard mode" temporarily to overwhelm your opponent, etc.).

Hey I don't mind VOOT style game play, I just am a bit worried about how well its' executed.

Wonders how others feel about the game?

dai jou bu · Post by **dai jou bu** » Sat May 16, 2009 7:23 am

Shelcoof wrote: Hey I don't mind VOOT style game play, I just am a bit worried about how well its' executed.

The first game is kind of clunky, and it's kind of hard to describe. It has a lot of the latency found in OMG in regards to the freeze time, but if you time it right (by pressing the "turbo" button after firing during a dash) you can cancel it right away, so it will feel as fast as VOOT if you can pull it off.

I think the problem most VO players will have with the learning curve is the dash vectoring is a little bit different in regards to certain attacks for most characters. You can check my guide out in the signature if you want to learn more about that since I'm too lazy to explain it here.

Shelcoof · Post by **Shelcoof** » Sat May 16, 2009 1:03 pm

dai jou bu wrote: The first game is kind of clunky, and it's kind of hard to describe. It has a lot of the latency found in OMG in regards to the freeze time, but if you time it right (by pressing the "turbo" button after firing during a dash) you can cancel it right away, so it will feel as fast as VOOT if you can pull it off.

I think the problem most VO players will have with the learning curve is the dash vectoring is a little bit different in regards to certain attacks for most characters. You can check my guide out in the signature if you want to learn more about that since I'm too lazy to explain it here.

I didn't realize you had a guide lol
Just a quick question before I go off and read the guide. Is the battle engine considered deep? Deep as in the better skilled player most likely will win.

btw I just won this game for 4.99$. Sounds like a good price to test a game out.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sat May 16, 2009 1:13 pm

This game is deep providing you can stomach the inertia it has going for it.

bucklemyshoe · Post by **bucklemyshoe** » Sat May 16, 2009 4:12 pm

personally i think the game is awesome. your 4.99 was well spent, just make sure you have some one to play against because the cpu in this game totally blows and literally drains all the fun.

Erinu · Post by **Erinu** » Sat May 16, 2009 7:52 pm

This game controls and plays like shit, how can anyone stand it? It looks nothing like the vids, and the movement is incredibly slow, and you can't attack when you want to. This isn't new for most mecha games but it seems even worse in this one.

Zaarock · Post by **Zaarock** » Sat May 16, 2009 8:08 pm

Dash to dash cancel and vector dash more? the rounders have varying freeze times as well, so if you want to move more fluidly then use a fast character such as Changpo, Cuilan or Mika. I didnt notice any attack delay(apart from bosses of course), though each weapon has its recharge time which you can see on the circles around you. also, you wont be able to do multiple special barrage attacks quickly without dash canceling, if you dont dash cancel it will do the neutral barrage instead.

I dont see a problem with the controls myself, things do get very hectic when both players know what theyre doing. Being a fan of VOOT and senko, I'd say senko is somewhat more fast paced. Also, what do you mean by "not looking like the vids"?, graphical details?

dai jou bu · Post by **dai jou bu** » Sat May 16, 2009 9:44 pm

Erinu wrote:It looks nothing like the vids, and the movement is incredibly slow, and you can't attack when you want to. This isn't new for most mecha games but it seems even worse in this one.

What are you talking about

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Sun May 17, 2009 12:34 am

Shelcoof: Possibly the deepest game I have ever played. Also I played ROUGETSU maybe 40 times in a row once, never won a match. There are a ridiculous number of different skill levels. Approach the game from a fighter standpoint since that's what it is. Complaining about inertia is stupid for example, because there's less inertia or gravity than other fighters.

Zaarock wrote:Also, what do you mean by "not looking like the vids"?, graphical details?

Zaarock, he's a shitplayer so he means "how come it looks cool and fast in vids but when I play it dun look like that, I wuz TRICKED" Ahahaha, funniest thing I've heard in years!

That whole post is gold, "this isn't new for most mecha games," A+ reviewer material.

dai jou bu wrote:(which I find odd since the occasional review does mention this, but they still trash it anyway while praising the XBLA port of Virtual On)

The only reason any reviews mention Virtual On is because they directly parroted your guide or icy's review, which were the best results that popped up when googling around initial US release. Also VOOT gets reviewer love because of TWIN STICKS even though this release doesn't have twin sticks and most reviewers never played Virtual On in the first place. Reviews are funny because you can correctly estimate any game's aggregate score before it even comes out.

Shelcoof · Post by **Shelcoof** » Sun May 17, 2009 1:43 am

Enhasa wrote:Shelcoof: Possibly the deepest game I have ever played. Also I played ROUGETSU maybe 40 times in a row once, never won a match. There are a ridiculous number of different skill levels. Approach the game from a fighter standpoint since that's what it is. Complaining about inertia is stupid for example, because there's less inertia or gravity than other fighters.

I appreciate the info. It's really good to hear that the game is quit deep. For a guy who just spend 11$ for it shipped, I am very happy to hear it.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun May 17, 2009 1:51 am

Enhasa wrote:Complaining about inertia is stupid for example, because there's less inertia or gravity than other fighters.

Yes, there's more inertia in different games, so that makes the presence in Senko irrelevant.

Can't find golfclap.gif right now, so just pretend I shoved it where this sentence is.

dai jou bu · Post by **dai jou bu** » Sun May 17, 2009 3:34 am

Elixir wrote:Yes, there's more inertia in different games, so that makes the presence in Senko irrelevant.

It sure does. Spacewar! the first shmup ever, which ironically, was also a versus shmup (makes one wonder why it took this long for a game like Senko to come out), and its Star Control successors also had inertia which is ten times worse than this. /sarcasm

In all seriousness though, I find the isometric perspective more detrimental than the inertia thing. The grid would help with this problem if it wasn't so self-conscious about looking stylish on the playing field.

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Sun May 17, 2009 6:46 am

Elixir wrote:
Enhasa wrote:Complaining about inertia is stupid for example, because there's less inertia or gravity than other fighters.
Yes, there's more inertia in different games, so that makes the presence in Senko irrelevant.

Can't find golfclap.gif right now, so just pretend I shoved it where this sentence is.

Stop being a fucking moron, please.

People complain about gravity in shmups. People don't complain about gravity in platformers. This is because they are different types of games! There are infinite examples. I don't need to give you any more, do I?

A traditional shmup is 1p, so there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to stop shooting or stop on a dime whenever necessary. For a 2p fighting game, some inertia is good because it allows the opponent to punish you for your actions. In SF2, when you miscalculate and jump in when your opponent can anti-air you, it would be retarded to be able to stop your jump in mid-air whenever you want.

If you can't grasp something as basic as this, you might as well stop playing games altogether.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun May 17, 2009 1:15 pm

Enhasa wrote:People complain about gravity in shmups. People don't complain about gravity in platformers. This is because they are different types of games! There are infinite examples. I don't need to give you any more, do I?

Hundreds of examples exist! I need not give any example, because hundreds of examples exist. I don't need to give you any more, despite not giving you any in the first place, because hundreds of examples exist.

Enhasa wrote:A traditional shmup is 1p, so there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to stop shooting or stop on a dime whenever necessary. For a 2p fighting game, some inertia is good because it allows the opponent to punish you for your actions. In SF2, when you miscalculate and jump in when your opponent can anti-air you, it would be retarded to be able to stop your jump in mid-air whenever you want.

If you can't grasp something as basic as this, you might as well stop playing games altogether.

I'm pretty sure people complain about the gravity in fighting games to the point where they won't play them. Take the Street Fighter EX series, Capcom Fighting Jam, and Tekken. As for platformers, take Zool (which was criticized to DEATH because of the way it controlled) and take Mario. I have no idea why you're bringing platformers up, but people have complained about them before. I can't be bothered listing a bunch of shitty mecha games that have horrible inertia in them too - like Gundam Operation Troy - because there's just way too many of them. In fact, this is one of the reasons why Zone of the Enders 2 is so popular. It takes out this sort of thing but still manages to be difficult and not a total breeze.

Another point you brought up was that "it's retarded to stop in the middle of an attack so you can't be punished", but much like GGXX, BlazBlue, CvS2, Arcana Heart, Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, Marvel vs. Capcom and a bunch of other titles, even Senko has this. See, unlike you, I'm capable of providing examples instead of saying "there's other games out there with this detrimental factor built-in, thus, the annoyance of it in x game is irrelevant!"

Your point, basically, is that it shouldn't be brought up when Senko discussion exists because you're a massive fan of the game and can't see the detrimental issues that it brings. But then games like Zone of the Enders 2 come along, and manage to use it in such a way that you have to apply skill as well as fast paced action to both areas. Reviewer quality right there.

shmups.system11.org

JP Senko no Ronde Rev. X and the US version...

JP Senko no Ronde Rev. X and the US version...

Re: JP Senko no Ronde Rev. X and the US version...

Re: JP Senko no Ronde Rev. X and the US version...