7th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Discussion thread

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed May 13, 2009 6:49 am

gunbird18 wrote: [1] [Gunbird]
[1] [Gunbird 2]

Boo hiss.

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Wed May 13, 2009 6:58 am

Don't you know, it took them 18 tries for Neo-Psikyo to finally get it right.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed May 13, 2009 8:18 am

They got it right even before they started (Turbo Force).

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:06 pm

Kengou wrote:Gauntlet is in no way a shmup.
(...)
Why is this even a discussion?
(...)

Because:

incognoscente wrote: (...)
If so much effort has to be expended just to keep a proposition alive, maybe the proposition itself is faulty?
(...)

And:

incognoscente wrote: (...)
09. You may not vote for games that you don't believe are shmups. If you do not think that Granada is a shmup, you may not vote for it. However, as long as the votes of others respect the categories outlined in rule #08, your opinion shall have no bearing on the eligibility of other votes.
(...)

Conversely, you should vote for games that you do believe are "shmups" (ignoring rule #08, of course )...

neist wrote: (...)
But all this aside, it's so much of a Thrust clone that more of a question is would Thrust qualify to be voted on.

I'm not sure if you're still waiting for official confirmation from incognoscente, but regarding Thrust (BBC Micro?), it can potentially conflict with the current "... opening doors"; and, "... 100% fuel" rules...

I'd personally allow both Thrust and Subterrania to be eligible, because it would be trivial to modify the aforementioned rules...

neist · Post by **neist** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:08 pm

j^aws wrote:
neist wrote: (...)
But all this aside, it's so much of a Thrust clone that more of a question is would Thrust qualify to be voted on.
I'm not sure if you're still waiting for official confirmation from incognoscente, but regarding Thrust (BBC Micro?), it can potentially conflict with the current "... opening doors"; and, "... 100% fuel" rules...

I'd personally allow both Thrust and Subterrania to be eligible, because it would be trivial to modify the aforementioned rules...

I've already decided to omit it in my list, given the reasons you already stated. I'm still compiling up the list as I type this.

I had to wait until my finals were complete before I worked on this. Didn't have enough time to think about it.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:56 pm

neist wrote: (...)
I've already decided to omit it in my list, given the reasons you already stated. I'm still compiling up the list as I type this.
(...)

That's fine; but bear in mind:

incogcente wrote: (...)
but the group shmup has more members than just the easy titles.
(...)

... I think the organisers have just avoided all the "hard" titles...

Shumps4Free · Post by **Shumps4Free** » Thu May 14, 2009 9:03 pm

I think that as an additional rule you must have a Psikyo game in your top five, and it has to have a score of at least 20 or above.

And don't you dare disagree with me! If there can be an entire thread about getting Ketsui in the top list, I think I can have this one post, right?

Edit: I like how gunbird 18 low voted gunbird games. That's gotta be some kind of irony or something.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu May 14, 2009 9:44 pm

Psikyo is for shump connoisseurs.

Shumps4Free · Post by **Shumps4Free** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:12 pm

Limbrooke wrote:[29] [Radiant Silvergun (SAT)]

Uuuuh.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:22 pm

Radiant Silvergun has anything but a 1 on a list? Yeah I agree

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:32 pm

A pattern is developing. jp also tried to give RSG 40 points. RSG fans are seeing the writing on the wall (game sux/out of top 10).

Shumps4Free · Post by **Shumps4Free** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Ah what are you kidding me? Radiant Silvergun is an amazing game. So many people talk about it, it has to be good! I mean, it's got ummm....3D graphics aaaaand....a super unique blade weapon?

neist · Post by **neist** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:51 pm

Welp I finally voted.

My obscure tastes in games is probably not similar to anyone here, but I voted.

I'll go into a bit more depth about my choices in a bit. Eating dinner.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:54 pm

Shumps4Free wrote:So many people talk about it,

Yeah, no one is talking about it anymore so the only way is to give the game 29 points. Very clever. Let's get back to Psikyo. I corrected my list to include 11 Psikyo games.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:54 pm

Shumps4Free wrote:Ah what are you kidding me? Radiant Silvergun is an amazing game. So many people talk about it, it has to be good! I mean, it's got ummm....3D graphics aaaaand....a super unique blade weapon?

it's appealing until you realize 99% of the people praising it have not actually played it past 5 minutes

Shumps4Free · Post by **Shumps4Free** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:57 pm

Rob wrote:
Shumps4Free wrote:So many people talk about it,
Yeah, no one is talking about it anymore so the only way is to give the game 29 points. Very clever. Let's get back to Psikyo. I corrected my list to include 11 Psikyo games.

Good man. And on a mildly related note, I was playing Strikers II for Playstation, and was wondering if all those ships in the database are playable. If they are, would you be able to tell me how to access them?

neist wrote:Welp I finally voted.

My obscure tastes in games is probably not similar to anyone here, but I voted.

I'll go into a bit more depth about my choices in a bit. Eating dinner.

neist wrote:[20] [Giga Wing 2 (Dreamcast)]
[20] [Pocky and Rocky (Super Nintendo)]

Looks fine to me.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:02 pm

j^aws wrote:Conversely, you should vote for games that you do believe are "shmups"

If you believe Gauntlet is a shmup, and incog doesn't rule it out, then you may vote for it.

If you want someone to convince you that Gauntlet is or is not a shmup than you need to start another thread.

In my opinion Gauntlet is not a shmup but I haven't attempted to prove that here.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:03 pm

Can I argue that some games are not shmups

Psyvariar is not a shmup, but a dungeon crawler because it has paths and leveling

Shumps4Free · Post by **Shumps4Free** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:07 pm

Twiddle wrote:Can I argue that some games are not shmups

Psyvariar is not a shmup, but a dungeon crawler because it has paths and leveling

Oh wow. So many shmups are actually dungeon crawlers in disguise. I'm surprised I never noticed it before! G-Darius is a pretty good dungeon crawler.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Yeah, G-Darius has hit points and a SHIELD! Totally a dungeon crawler.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:10 pm

Leveling down is an MMORPG mechanic, so I guess that disqualifies Dimahoo.

Come to think of it, don't Psikyo games count too? You have to collect gold all the time, much like an MMORPG.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:14 pm

You have to keep things alive to get certain things in Raiden (Fighters) wtf, I thought we were supposed to be shooting things the moment they appear here, totally not shmups

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:37 pm

Ceph is retarded.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:43 pm

All of his entries were pure shmups though don't some of you guys like that sort of thing

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:54 pm

doctorx0079 wrote:
j^aws wrote:Conversely, you should vote for games that you do believe are "shmups"
If you believe Gauntlet is a shmup, and incog doesn't rule it out, then you may vote for it.

If you want someone to convince you that Gauntlet is or is not a shmup than you need to start another thread.

In my opinion Gauntlet is not a shmup but I haven't attempted to prove that here.

I have no particular interest in voting for the Chaos Engine or Gauntlet; Thrust or Subtarrania et al, at this moment in time...

The root of the argument/ conflict is this:

"If so much effort has to be expended just to keep a proposition alive, maybe the proposition itself is faulty?" - incognoscente

Gauntlet wasn't introduced into this thread by me. It was also present in a similar discussion circa 2007. Also, I'm prepared to discuss all this from a blank sheet of paper, if needed, in an open discussion; but I expect full co-operation from the organisers though. Otherwise, I'm not interested in wasting my time...

I think the OP has good intentions, and the spirit of what was proposed is on the right road, and more than a success as far as I'm concerened. I want this to continue next year, and not withdrawn for the 'wrong' reasons...

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri May 15, 2009 12:01 am

CIT wrote:Ceph is retarded.

In some kind of strange time warp, I only saw his list posted like two minutes ago. Had me scrambling all over the Forum looking for it.

Going to post my extended list and commentary in the other thread now.

Shumps4Free · Post by **Shumps4Free** » Fri May 15, 2009 12:05 am

Oooh Oscuro, thanks for reminding me of Aleste. Super great series, especially GG Aleste II.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri May 15, 2009 12:43 am

Shumps4Free wrote:Oooh Oscuro, thanks for reminding me of Aleste. Super great series, especially GG Aleste II.

The GG Aleste games might make it into my list next year, if I remember to order a TV-modded GG. Actually I guess I could just emulate, but where's the fun in that?

I think I successfully fought off the temptation of rating Compile and MSX2+ stuff higher than it need be. Well, Gun*Nac probably rates a lot higher than Power Strike II, but I'll survive.

It's like a bullet hell game narrated by the Tourette's Guy.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri May 15, 2009 12:48 am

Ed Oscuro wrote:Well, Gun*Nac probably rates a lot higher than Power Strike II, but I'll survive.

The SMS one? No.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri May 15, 2009 12:51 am

Turrican wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:Well, Gun*Nac probably rates a lot higher than Power Strike II, but I'll survive.
The SMS one? No.

Opinions, opinions...I can't really rate it much higher than Gun*Nac, anyway. It has been a while since I played Gun*Nac though. Aleste II feels ages ahead of both though.

Probably Recca demolishes both of them.

I forgot to mention SCAT / Action in New York, as another poster pointed out in another thread, but it probably wouldn't have rated so high. Turned out that Section Z clones are cool but not THAT cool; only Battle Mania made it on the list.

I completely forgot about Cybattler but that's okay.