Ketsui - is 2009 finally the year? - YES

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:56 pm

i secretely think they didn't put a Type C helicopter in doj for that very reason

the scoring is cool. gotta collect all those cubes. they just went from lemon to lime, that's all

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:03 pm

mars matrix sux...

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:25 pm

That game is a hidden gem like Bio Metal.

jpj wrote:the scoring is cool. gotta collect all those cubes. they just went from lemon to lime, that's all

I want to collect them but they just fly to the ship. It's dumb.

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:50 pm

jpj wrote:the scoring is cool.

Word. I like the scoring system on Ketsui a lot. Easy to pick up for n00bs, the risk factor of having to pointblank from time to time, and the joy of spotting ways to reap in those 5-chips that you'd never seen before. Plus they don't fly to the ship if you are too far away...

On another topic, I've just played Ketsui Death Label for the first time. All I can say is "lol" to anyone who was judging Ketsui on this. It's not a bad game, but Ketsui without the scoring system isn't Ketsui.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:15 pm

rob, i think the problem is you secretely love chaining

and sven, it's better to simply call something "overrated" than say it sux

like my esteemed colleague Mr Chi said, it's all about shooting enemies straight in the face

i've owned my board for about 3 years. i think the main reasons anyone ever sells it is a) they're broke; and b) they got a 1-ALL and are happy to leave it at that.

i think the thing about ketsui that stands out the most for me though would be the combination of the music and the bullet patterns, both are first rate

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:00 am

jpj wrote:it's all about shooting enemies straight in the face

You make it sound like Gears of War but it's not. :[

Not to be all Cave vs. Psikyo (clear victory) but Dragon Blaze has more satisfying pointblanking. Dragon shot is more boom, in your face. Especially nailing a tech bonus on a boss, while Ketsui seems more concerned with chipping parts off of bosses which is the most boring thing. Then you have to collect the coins in DB, which is half the fun/challenge.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:38 am

yeah, but you have to suffer through dragon blaze's abysmal soundtrack in the process

i don't think there's that much chipping away, as a lot of bosses/midbosses don't have lots of destructable parts. you're making it sound like battle garegga

during the levels, it's all about shooting a popcorn enemy point-blank, and sweeping around with your laser sucking up [5] chips. and repeating that in short little bursts. so it's a lot less asinine than the pachis. a player can get a 1-ALL with 100+ mill without ever seeing a replay. only thing that's a drag (i don't know if this is in the DS version or not), but there's a way of "tricking" the game into giving you extra chips if you destroy a large enemy by pressing A so that when you kill it, it's during the initial Shot style bullets, and as it blows up, you switch to the Laser, therefore getting the 5 chip, and generating extra amounts of them by being in laser mode. i can only really be bothered to do that shit in stage 1 to be honest

dragon blaze seemed really reliant on the dragon shot from what i remember (?)

i probably already said this in the opening post, but i think ketsui is probably the best "distillation" of the cave/ikeda 5 stage 2 loop formula. i think it's got the balance just right

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed May 13, 2009 1:33 am

I don't think DB's soundtrack is bad, but it's more appropriate to listen to some epic metal about wizards.

sweeping around with your laser sucking up [5] chips. repeating that in short little bursts. so it's a lot less asinine than the pachis.

Sweeping is a chore.

Not defending asinine Pachis, but the huge multiplier games provide larger rewards for the most difficult improvements. Even spreads and short burst scoring seems more appealing at the start, but you probably won't want to put in hours and hours for small improvements later on. For most there will always be the extra loops, but then you have the chore of clearing the first dozens of times. Single loop score-focused games cut the unnecessary repetition and feel more 'complete'. This is why GUWANGE is clearly Cave's best.

sikraiken · Post by **sikraiken** » Wed May 13, 2009 2:24 am

Rob wrote:This is why GUWANGE is clearly Cave's best.

Minus the whole counter-stop thing, and the boss 'leeching'. Yeah...

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:11 am

I don't mind the counterstop problem (that'd just make me feel really awesome). I mean, if I'm going to stop playing the game eventually it might as well end with the satisfaction of having broken it. The boss milking sucks but when compared to repeating the same stages twice it's not so bad. Which is your favorite?

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:22 am

jpj wrote:only thing that's a drag (i don't know if this is in the DS version or not), but there's a way of "tricking" the game into giving you extra chips if you destroy a large enemy by pressing A so that when you kill it, it's during the initial Shot style bullets, and as it blows up, you switch to the Laser, therefore getting the 5 chip, and generating extra amounts of them by being in laser mode. i can only really be bothered to do that shit in stage 1 to be honest

You can do this to any enemy, not just large ones. For example you can do it on the first popcorn enemies that show up in stage 1.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Wed May 13, 2009 6:10 am

Rob wrote:The scoring system doesn't look interesting to me, but I'd take a DOJ with helicopters. Helicopters are always cool. :]

You are aware that Ketsui features 2 helicopters ?

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Wed May 13, 2009 8:37 am

Gwyrgyn Blood wrote:
jpj wrote:only thing that's a drag (i don't know if this is in the DS version or not), but there's a way of "tricking" the game into giving you extra chips if you destroy a large enemy by pressing A so that when you kill it, it's during the initial Shot style bullets, and as it blows up, you switch to the Laser, therefore getting the 5 chip, and generating extra amounts of them by being in laser mode. i can only really be bothered to do that shit in stage 1 to be honest
You can do this to any enemy, not just large ones. For example you can do it on the first popcorn enemies that show up in stage 1.

a+c is your friend. it leads to crippling repetitive strain injury tho

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed May 13, 2009 9:35 am

thank you for the voting support Skykid, msm, and gunbird18

gwyrgyn: do you actually generate extra chips though, from the popcorn enemies..?

rob: if you don't have a suitable way of playing the recent pcb-only stuff, i'm wondering if you've played galuda 2, futari, muchi pork, ibara black label, DFK, deathsmiles, as well as ketsui, etc etc. guwange is excellent, but they've had lots of good games recently too

survival is a big part of ketsui's scoring. so you aren't focusing on "how can i get 10 more chips from this bit?" etc. i can't remember exactly how it's calculated, but you get a nice bonus on each level, so you're usually trying to learn how to take out each level/boss with a no-miss no-bomb strategy. which is easier said than done. and to my knowledge, the second loops don't feature any difference in chip value point-blanking or not (although point-blanking does decrease the amount of suicide bullets released), and the 2nd loops are far more focused on just shooting and survival.

someone like CHI or MMM would be better to comment, but i don't think ketsui, even on your 1000th credit, is ever a chore really. especially as the 1st loop is the one where you have to play aggressively for score

rtw:

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Wed May 13, 2009 9:48 am

it's true jpj.. just try a run getting five chips off popcorn enemies using a+c instead of shooting enemies with c then moving to a. not only do you lock quicker but often the popcorn enemies release more chips than usual.

it took me a evening to adjust to playing this way

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed May 13, 2009 11:50 am

jpj wrote:rob: if you don't have a suitable way of playing the recent pcb-only stuff,

Psh, this thread says they peaked January '03. I say '99. They're coasting and completely out of ideas other than stuff transforming into dolls. $20 for the whole set.

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Wed May 13, 2009 11:59 am

YOO HERD IT HEAR

SHMUPS ARE DEAD !!!! LONG LIVE TRIANGLE SERVICE AND GREV
FUK NO KILL THEM TOOO

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:01 pm

SAD THING IS AFTER SEEING DEATH SMILES 2 AND NO YAGWA GAMES FOR A WHILE I BELIEVE THIS MAY BE TRUE

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:08 pm

cave's worst games are better than most companies best games

not that i even think they've had any "bad" games per se (deathsmiles 2 aside). what i meant was that ketsui is *probably* the best of the ikeda made games that are of the 5 stages/2 loop variety. ie ketsui is better than: ddp, doj, progear, dfk. some people agree, some don't

cheers charlie, i'll give that a try

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:13 pm

jpj wrote:cheers charlie, i'll give that a try

JAPJAC · Post by **JAPJAC** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:31 pm

Cave`s others?-I`ve tried them ALL. I honestly think Cave are a one-hit-wonder with Ketsui. Blimey, what a hit though!

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:41 pm

jpj wrote:not that i even think they've had any "bad" games per se (deathsmiles 2 aside)

Give them a chance... it's not released till tomorrow

Anyway, horses for courses, lads. I love Ibara, others think it is the biggest pile of turd ever. I can't stand Mushihimesama, other's think it is the bee's knees (or ladybird, or insert other insect here).

And some people don't even like Dangun Feveron - ker-azy! XD

Cave needs to get Ketsui 2 written and published, tbh.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:38 pm

ketsui doesn't need a sequel

and thank you for the voting support lynchesque

drboom · Post by **drboom** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:41 pm

I'll disagree with you there jpj. Ketsui definitely needs a sequel. Look at how good DOJ was after DDP*, or even DDP after DP. I'd love to see that progression with Ketsui.

I'd also like to see it with Guwange, Progear, Dangun Feveron...

*yes, I am skipping over DDP 2, I'm sure you all know why.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:48 pm

you are correct good sir, and doj is a lot better than ddp (although i am unsure if doj warranted a sequel in the shape of DFK

). and it took cave a while to get the chaining system as good as it could be. but i don't know what you'd alter with ketsui's scoring system. i think if they did a ketsui 2, maybe they'd go a completely different route with it..?

certainly out of all their games, a guwange 2 or ketsui 2 would be the most interesting prospect

(but i fear loli overdose and cheap 3D graphics will be the future...

)

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed May 13, 2009 4:02 pm

thank you for the voting support Lordstar

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Wed May 13, 2009 5:53 pm

jpj wrote:certainly out of all their games, a guwange 2 or ketsui 2 would be the most interesting prospect
(but i fear loli overdose and cheap 3D graphics will be the future... )

Yes, or Mushihime-III (non-puzzle). Preferrably not a prequel, they're young enough as it is.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu May 14, 2009 12:35 am

thank you for the voting support CIT

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Thu May 14, 2009 1:17 am

Hehe, even put on my top hat.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu May 14, 2009 3:01 am

emphatic wrote:
jpj wrote:certainly out of all their games, a guwange 2 or ketsui 2 would be the most interesting prospect
(but i fear loli overdose and cheap 3D graphics will be the future... )
Yes, or Mushihime-III (non-puzzle). Preferrably not a prequel, they're young enough as it is.

if they made a sequel to mushi-tama i would buy it on release