NON-ARENA based dual-stick multidirectional shooters?

Xonatron · Post by **Xonatron** » Sat May 09, 2009 9:57 pm

What's out there for NON-ARENA based dual-stick multidirectional shooters? That would not include Geometry Wars, Biology Battle, and multidirectional shooter where you are stuck in a non-scrolling room that spawns enemies.

The reason I ask is Duality ZF (our game) has a multidirectional mode, but it's still an eight stage overhead view scroller. I'm thinking we must be one of the only ones out there. I was wondering if it had marketing potential. (Sorry if this fits in the dev forum more than shmups chat, please move it if so.)

sjewkestheloon · Post by **sjewkestheloon** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:11 pm

Although I have not played it, I believe that Zero Gunner 2 is somewhat multi-directional. SOmeone else would have to fill in the details though!

Xonatron · Post by **Xonatron** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:15 pm

It looks that way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWr5p7TaYK4

lilmanjs · Post by **lilmanjs** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:24 pm

zero gunner 2 is the type of game you are wanting. most say its an ok game but it certainly is fun to play.

Xonatron · Post by **Xonatron** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:28 pm

It appears to rotate only so fast, not like geometry wars (and our game).

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:32 pm

ZG2 works sort of like you say, but doesn't support a dual-stick setup. It ostensibly could, though.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Sat May 09, 2009 11:12 pm

There is one that is actually pretty good. Gunroar by Kenta Cho. The scrolling is NOT automated, but it doesn't feel like an arena shooter nor a run'n'gun.
Here's a link (it's free): http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~cs8k-cyu/windows/gr_e.html

Also, there is Total Carnage (the Smash TV "sequel"), that scrolls, but it does feel like an arena shooter when you play it. Gunroar is more fun and actually feels like a shmup.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Sat May 09, 2009 11:20 pm

Ocean Commander (PC/PS2/Wii)
Heavy Weapon (360) (I suppose)
Eco Fighters (PS2/Xbox collection)
Forgotten Worlds (PS2/Xbox collection)

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Sat May 09, 2009 11:25 pm

no clue Ocean commander and heavy weapon, but eco fighters, bike banditz and forgotten worlds are like Zero Gunner 2, in the way the are not really multidirectional.

Instead they have a feature that allows you main fire to be rotated (at a fixed speed) around the avatar.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Sat May 09, 2009 11:27 pm

That's why I listed the PS2/Xbox versions. They allow dual-stick support.

Edit: Forgot. BB uses away/toward your direction and becomes fixed.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Sat May 09, 2009 11:37 pm

I assume the rotation speed in these ports (forgotten worlds and eco fighters) is fixed though, so it more or less the same as the arcade counterparts.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Sun May 10, 2009 12:49 am

Nope. It's as fast as you can spin the stick.

hikarutilmitt · Post by **hikarutilmitt** » Sun May 10, 2009 2:44 am

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Omega Five.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sun May 10, 2009 3:26 am

Try out Assault.

Xonatron · Post by **Xonatron** » Sun May 10, 2009 4:32 pm

Ok, well we definitely are not the first. And for clarification I was looking for auto-srolling, instant-aiming, dual-stick multidirection shooters. All those details are what we have.

It's odd but Omega Five and Forgotten Worlds and games like that may fit the mold, but they don't feel the same as taking a kick-ass shmup and giving it multidirectional support. It's almost as if they belong in their own sub-genre, and a different genre from what Duality ZF (our game) and other "space-ship" style shooters.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun May 10, 2009 10:01 pm

Would it be too much to add a ZG2 type of control setup in addition to dual sticks? Really hate the dual sticks for 2d shooters.

antron · Post by **antron** » Sun May 10, 2009 10:27 pm

Xyanide?

Xonatron · Post by **Xonatron** » Sun May 10, 2009 10:27 pm

Rob wrote:Would it be too much to add a ZG2 type of control setup in addition to dual sticks? Really hate the dual sticks for 2d shooters.

I don't know. What exactly are ZG2's controls?

antron · Post by **antron** » Sun May 10, 2009 10:32 pm

when you hold your second button down you create a pivot point that you will rotate around. if you move in close to that point you will rotate much quicker.

Xonatron · Post by **Xonatron** » Sun May 10, 2009 11:19 pm

antron wrote:when you hold your second button down you create a pivot point that you will rotate around. if you move in close to that point you will rotate much quicker.

I doubt we'll put that in. We could, but you would be going up against players playing with quicker aim controls, and forever be at a disadvantage. I could see someone becoming really good at these controls, but not as good as someone with dual-stick aiming. (Do you agree?) If that's the truth, how many would want it? It would complicate our (already complicated) menu system. So I am saying we won't be putting this in.

It's too bad I didn't have the game to test this control quickly.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun May 10, 2009 11:44 pm

Matthew Doucette wrote:I doubt we'll put that in. We could, but you would be going up against players playing with quicker aim controls, and forever be at a disadvantage.

Don't see a problem since it doesn't appear to be a player vs. player game (FPS deathmatch or something). Shooter fans love a ton of weird options like scanlines and crap like that. Control options are always good.

When's the release date on this one?

Xonatron · Post by **Xonatron** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:39 am

Rob wrote:
Matthew Doucette wrote:I doubt we'll put that in. We could, but you would be going up against players playing with quicker aim controls, and forever be at a disadvantage.
Don't see a problem since it doesn't appear to be a player vs. player game (FPS deathmatch or something). Shooter fans love a ton of weird options like scanlines and crap like that. Control options are always good.

When's the release date on this one?

The problem isn't coding it, it's putting that in as an option somewhere. We'd have to hide it deep in the options menu. I guess it would still be there. Is it really worth it? Would you ever use it knowing you'd get lower scores that way?

We are pushing for a May release, but don't quote me on that. I've been burned for skipping release dates in the past, and will probably get burned for mention May when we skip it, too!

The true release date, in the words of a great game development team (id), is when it's done! But we don't really tell people that!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon May 11, 2009 2:03 am

Matthew Doucette wrote:The problem isn't coding it, it's putting that in as an option somewhere. We'd have to hide it deep in the options menu. I guess it would still be there. Is it really worth it? Would you ever use it knowing you'd get lower scores that way?

Definitely would. I love multi-direction shooters, but I end up stopping games I'd otherwise like when they go for just dual sticks (Geometry Wars 2). There are other options (like, if the shoulder buttons aren't being used for anything), but I like the ZG2 method. I put a lot of time into it and it'd be nice to play something like it again. Looking forward to the game.

Xonatron · Post by **Xonatron** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:09 am

Rob wrote:I love multi-direction shooters, but I end up stopping games I'd otherwise like when they go for just dual sticks (Geometry Wars 2). There are other options (like, if the shoulder buttons aren't being used for anything), but I like the ZG2 method. I put a lot of time into it and it'd be nice to play something like it again. Looking forward to the game.

What would that (control) mode be called? (No promises it will make the game. But there is something cool about satisfying the hardcore shmup fans like yourself with such options.)

Rob wrote:Looking forward to the game.

Thank you!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:08 am

Matthew Doucette wrote:What would that (control) mode be called?

Easy way would be the standard Type A (default dual sticks), Type B (hold x to rotate), etc. with the short explanation wherever. Or more to the point - rotation: r stick, x + l stick. I'll have to think on it if a more creative name will increase its chances of getting in.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:57 am

does that mean duality-zf will be a multi-directional shooter?

PIXELSTORM DX · Post by **PIXELSTORM DX** » Mon May 11, 2009 8:44 am

I´ve seen the trailer for Duality ZF on the XNAroundup-podcast and XNPlay and it sure looks interesting, especially for 400 MSPts.

At first I was not really liking the somewhat limited color-palette and the relatively simple style of the graphics, but if it helps to mantain the visibilty I guess it´s okay.

I suggest that you make some kind of official thread about Duality ZF with the trailer and some Info as the other devs have done, because this thread is easy to miss as it contains no info in the Title that a new Shmup is on its way to the 360.

I really hope the game is fun to play and feels "right", because most of the other Shmups I have recently played from devs who apparently didn´t have much experience with the genre felt off and were quite awful ( Söldner-X and Last Hope come to mind. On the other hand XOP was surprisingly fun to play)

Best of luck with DZF!!

Xonatron · Post by **Xonatron** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:00 pm

Type A and Type B (for Zero Gunner 2 control mode) would do. Right now we don't have any triggers or bumpers left over for this mode. If you had to use a button, which would it be? One button would have to shoot, and another would have to create a pivot. I'm not sure if a button would work for this? Maybe "X" and "B", both, would work depending how you hold the Xbox 360 controller. "A" would shoot, of course.

Duality ZF has a multidirectional shooting control MODE, which means you can play the entire game, all six game modes, with multidirectional shooting if you want to. The online scoreboards will be split from the regular mode, the same way dual play scoreboards are. In all there are four control modes: SOLO PLAY, DUAL PLAY, MULTIDIRECTIONAL, and G-MODE. G-Mode control is a secret for now!

Our April 2009 trailer explains it well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TkG6J2CWvU (Watch in HD)

Our game is more fun than Solder-X. I think we know the genre well enough to post on these forums even as gamers, not developers. Anything our game lacks is actually due to lack of resources, not lack of knowledge. Complex stage structures and end bosses are what come to mind, but ever without that we offer a game that is purely fun and addictive. What we have, works. And the sequel will be even better, but let's not go there just yet!

Here's our XNA Roundup ads, so far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN7XHoCj2AU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN7XHoCj2AU#t=4m9s (trailer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Bd0qWSjac

We are mentioned 4 times in it, with a trailer at the end that is the same in both shows.

I have an "Duality ZF" thread in the development section that is hugely popular. Should I just get it moved to the shmups chat section, instead of starting a new one? Honestly, I think it fits here. Should I contact a mod to move it? Here it is:

introducing Duality ZF
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=22482

PIXELSTORM DX · Post by **PIXELSTORM DX** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:38 pm

Whoops, I completely missed that Thread since I usually don´t check the Developement section.

I´ve read through the six pages and the more I see and read about the game the more excited I get.

Since it´s supposed to be released this month I´ve added some more points to my account. Can´t wait to play it

Xonatron · Post by **Xonatron** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:42 pm

PIXELSTORM DX wrote:Whoops, I completely missed that Thread since I usually don´t check the Developement section.

Exactly why we want to move it. I just msg'd incognoscente about moving the thread.

PIXELSTORM DX wrote:Since it´s supposed to be released this month I´ve added some more points to my account. Can´t wait to play it

Don't quote us on that release date, please. We got at least one upset in the past by not following through. But, thank you for this sure-fire purchase!