Death Smiles: Countdown to North America Invasion

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat May 02, 2009 3:31 am

ZyN wrote:
Etrian wrote:What comes with MBL? Just a new character and a new stage?
What is MBL ?

I wrote up a comprehensive list of changes in MBL awhile back:

http://www.cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=490.0

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:24 am

As somebody who's completely incapable of timing the power up so that he gets the counter recharge, it's looking as though it's pointless me even attempting it - I seem to get a higher score by ignoring it and letting the counter max out at 1,000, then stay there, the amount of extra points I get from the multiplier vastly outweighing the amount I get from the increased item values when in power up mode.

This is quite depressing.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:56 am

Etrian wrote:What comes with MBL? Just a new character and a new stage?

Sakura is a big addition:

- Two options, useful for suicide bullets
- Options move like Windia
- Options focus on enemies with lock-shot, like Follett
- Good damage

It's basically Windia and Follett combind. I look forward to playing with her.

cyprien · Post by **cyprien** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:02 pm

E. Randy Dupre wrote:As somebody who's completely incapable of timing the power up so that he gets the counter recharge, it's looking as though it's pointless me even attempting it - I seem to get a higher score by ignoring it and letting the counter max out at 1,000, then stay there, the amount of extra points I get from the multiplier vastly outweighing the amount I get from the increased item values when in power up mode.

This is quite depressing.

See, I was doing that as I thought the same thing. I can't get the recharge thing right either but I definitely got a higher score by using my fever mode.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:48 pm

Does anyone know of some replays which don't enter power-up mode? I'd like to see it.

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Sat May 02, 2009 2:08 pm

cyprien wrote:See, I was doing that as I thought the same thing. I can't get the recharge thing right either but I definitely got a higher score by using my fever mode.

Yeah, I mean, I can see howw it's the core to getting decent scores, but it just frustrates me that it feels like the recharge is down to a huge amount of luck. I know it's not, and I know that the best players are probably utilising the different shot types to get the counter down to 0 at exactly the right moment for the recharge, but for as somebody who's *not* an android, it feels random.

It's the one thing that I dislike about Cave's output: the inclusion of some ridiculously arcane system hidden in the depths of the gameplay that only the elite can ever hope to get the hang of. Reminds me of all the shit with the different shot speeds in Mushi (although it's obviously not half that bad).

I say all o this as somebody who hasn't yet even managed to 1CC it by playing the first six levels at rank 1, btw. Close - final boss, needed a few thousand more points to get the second extend, which'd probably have carried me through - but no cigar.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sat May 02, 2009 2:56 pm

I can get the recharge right on the volcanic level about 25% of the time, rest of the time it's either close or way off. I have yet to try the other levels.

The forest level is super easy, you basically bomb anywhere on the last vines and it'll recharge. If not full, the boss will probably help out. Whroon is really easy thanks to the safespot in the final pattern, though I still mess up on the gigantic apple part frequently.

msm · Post by **msm** » Sat May 02, 2009 3:06 pm

E. Randy Dupre wrote: needed a few thousand more points to get the second extend, which'd probably have carried me through - but no cigar.

how are you getting so many points without using the powerup mode?

i struggle with scoring systems and haven't been using it either and was only getting ~12 million, tried a few times yesterday using the powerup mode and got 60 million, that was probably a bit lucky though.

what's this recharge thing? is it going out of powerup mode just before you get loads of crowns/skulls so the meter goes straight back to 1000?

ZyN · Post by **ZyN** » Sat May 02, 2009 3:10 pm

EOJ wrote:
ZyN wrote:
Etrian wrote:What comes with MBL? Just a new character and a new stage?
What is MBL ?

I wrote up a comprehensive list of changes in MBL awhile back:

http://www.cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=490.0

Ok thank you so and that will be avalible on XBLA soon ?

TodayIsForgotten · Post by **TodayIsForgotten** » Sat May 02, 2009 3:22 pm

E. Randy Dupre wrote:As somebody who's completely incapable of timing the power up so that he gets the counter recharge, it's looking as though it's pointless me even attempting it - I seem to get a higher score by ignoring it and letting the counter max out at 1,000, then stay there, the amount of extra points I get from the multiplier vastly outweighing the amount I get from the increased item values when in power up mode.

This is quite depressing.

This bothers me as well. I got it back-to-back twice and never again. I've watched replays. i see what the dude is doing but when i try to "translate it" it no work for me. I think i have the basic idea perhaps shooting a bunch of enemies or one big enemy when im around 70-100 so im just in time to collect all the crowns and whatnot when i leave fever mode. Putting that into play is a whole other game.

I'm at 1 billion points on 1.1 and when the top score is 12 billion it is upsetting.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:04 pm

ZyN wrote:
Ok thank you so and that will be avalible on XBLA soon ?

No, not XBLA. It's DLC for the DS port (you need to own the port in order to download and play it).

ZyN · Post by **ZyN** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:13 pm

EOJ wrote:
ZyN wrote:
Ok thank you so and that will be avalible on XBLA soon ?
No, not XBLA. It's DLC for the DS port (you need to own the port in order to download and play it).

Ah ok thank you I owned DS ^^ so is the DLC for free for does it cost something

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:15 pm

1400 Japanese MS points (about $25 USD).

ZyN · Post by **ZyN** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:21 pm

EOJ wrote:1400 Japanese MS points (about $25 USD).

allright thank you

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Sat May 02, 2009 10:10 pm

msm wrote:
E. Randy Dupre wrote: needed a few thousand more points to get the second extend, which'd probably have carried me through - but no cigar.
how are you getting so many points without using the powerup mode?

I did use it on that run, but only at a few places where I knew for certain that it'd be worth it - once towards the end of the cemetery stage, once in the volcano and twice in the final stage.

what's this recharge thing? is it going out of powerup mode just before you get loads of crowns/skulls so the meter goes straight back to 1000?

Yeah. If you follow the link that EOJ posted at the top of this page, there's a strat guide for the original arcade version that explains all this stuff.

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Sun May 03, 2009 3:58 pm

Actually, I'm coming round to the whole recharge mechanic now. I'm sure it's something that anybody could get th hang of with enough practice. It's just a shame, I think, that it has such a massive effect on score.

Same goes with chaining in DDP DOJ - I know that it adds an extra layer of challenge for those who find these games relatively easy, and it definitely provides a nice alternative method of playing for those of us who don't when we get a bit fed up with getting stuck on the same level time and time again, but it's a pity that it segregates the audience to such a massive degree.

Anyway. I've been thinking, there's another reason why this is probably the greatest home port of a Cave shooter yet, beyond the visual and gameplay fidelity, and that's that they made it easier. The importance of allowing the player to select rank 1 for all of the first six levels can't be overstated. It allows those of us who love these games but aren't very good at them - and I say this as somebody who still hasn't managed to 1CC Donpachi - to get to see the later levels without resorting to credit feeding and feeling like we're spoiling the experience for ourselves. If Cave have let us knock the difficutly down in the main level select screen, then it's official, and I don't feel cheap for resorting to it.

I 1CC'd it on rank 1 last night. I know it's basically easy mode, but that doesn't make me feel any less chuffed with myself - in fact, it makes me want to get better at it so that I can take it on at a higher level, because now I know that it's possible.

It also means that the frustration factor disappears. I always wanted to become proficient in Mushihimesama, but the stage 3 boss would routinely demolish me. Hell, it was a good day if I could one-life the first stage. Because I hit this brick wall, I eventually stopped playing, out of a combination of frustration and boredom (having to play the first three levels over and over again, only to lose all remaining lives in the same spot without fail, meant I had no sense of progression or improvement).

That's not going to happen here - if I'm going to start making a proper attempt at challenging the game at ranks 2 and 3, then I've still got the rank 1 game to go back to and simply have a fun blast through when they become too much.

I really hope they do something similar with the Mushi Futari conversion. I'm looking forwards to that like you wouldn't believe, but it's going to pale in comparison to this port if Cave don't take the abilities of the wider audience into consideration.

cyprien · Post by **cyprien** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:28 pm

Anyone have any links to some good non-MBL super plays?

I'm currently topping out at around 30mil before I die in my 5th stage or so and I was wanting to find some good scoring opportunities that I may be overlooking...

thamasha69 · Post by **thamasha69** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:29 pm

How many buttons are required to play this, and can their functions be remapped in the settings menu? Sorry if this has been covered, but I'm still waiting for my game to arrive. In the mean time I'm going to be building an adapter to use the controls from my supergun for play on the 360 and will only be wiring 3 buttons. Thanks.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:32 pm

Buttons are:

- Shoot left
- Shoot right
- Bomb
- Lock shot
- Option
- Turbo left shot
- Turbo right shot

You don't really need the lock shot or option, at least with Windia in 1.1 because you can position yourself accurately most of the time. Same with the turbo, not necessary. Lock-shot can be used with A + B, so really, only 3 buttons are necessary to actually play the game.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:37 pm

You need at least 4 buttons to play ver 1.1 properly - you have to put power up on its own button in that mode. Left shot, right shot, bomb, power up (or swap bomb out for option control, which is what I do). Option control is necessary for scoring on bosses.

msm · Post by **msm** » Sun May 03, 2009 10:33 pm

E. Randy Dupre wrote:
msm wrote:
E. Randy Dupre wrote: needed a few thousand more points to get the second extend, which'd probably have carried me through - but no cigar.
how are you getting so many points without using the powerup mode?
I did use it on that run, but only at a few places where I knew for certain that it'd be worth it - once towards the end of the cemetery stage, once in the volcano and twice in the final stage.

what's this recharge thing? is it going out of powerup mode just before you get loads of crowns/skulls so the meter goes straight back to 1000?
Yeah. If you follow the link that EOJ posted at the top of this page, there's a strat guide for the original arcade version that explains all this stuff.

Thanks (and thanks EOJ and GaijinPunch for the guides)

, had a look at the guide but i struggle to put stuff like that into practice

i get what you mean now about knowing when to go into powerup mode, you need to be able to get into the mode where everything gives big orange crowns for it to be worth while, i got lucky doing it at the right times yesterday, but today - no orange crowns

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun May 03, 2009 10:41 pm

EOJ wrote:You need at least 4 buttons to play ver 1.1 properly - you have to put power up on its own button in that mode. Left shot, right shot, bomb, power up (or swap bomb out for option control, which is what I do). Option control is necessary for scoring on bosses.

Apart from using your option on post-boss suicide bullets, what good is it for? Can't you just use your option manually on them instead?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon May 04, 2009 12:09 am

EOJ wrote: Option control is necessary for scoring on bosses.

It might as well be necessary for survival on Rank 3 in some places. Volcano, for one. Almost impossible w/o it (at least w/ Follet).

what good is it for? Can't you just use your option manually on them instead?

I use Follett, and her option is kind of far. Using the manual option manipulation brings the option in much closer and allows you to move while eating bullets. If you want to milk the volcanoes, you need to keep the option up there eating all the suicide buillets. Some of them appear behind you as well, which means if you don't have the button, you're going to quickly die. To get passed the Volcano in the middle, you need it to survive (w/ Follett, anyway). I'm sure it's hard w/ the other characters as well. Just not as hard. I agree... controling it fells all weird and gay, but it's there, and it does help.

thamasha69 · Post by **thamasha69** » Mon May 04, 2009 12:40 am

I'm stupid. I do have the ability to wire 6 buttons on my supergun...I have just heard there are difficulties when wiring the left/right triggers on the 360 pcb. I can easily wire X/Y/A/B so that's why I was wondering if the controls can be remapped and what would be best.

brokenhalo · Post by **brokenhalo** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:15 am

just wire the bumpers. don't worry about the triggers.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:32 am

thamasha69 wrote:I'm stupid. I do have the ability to wire 6 buttons on my supergun...I have just heard there are difficulties when wiring the left/right triggers on the 360 pcb. I can easily wire X/Y/A/B so that's why I was wondering if the controls can be remapped and what would be best.

To answer your question, yes, the buttons can be mapped however you like.

cyprien · Post by **cyprien** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:16 am

Are there online leaderboards for this game? I can't recall seeing any in the menus...

Then again I do just hit start until I see the stages.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:21 am

Yes, the game has full leaderboards for all modes. Go to SCORE ATTACK>LEADERBOARDS from the main menu to peruse them.

If you want to upload your score to the online leaderboards, you have to go to SCORE ATTACK>PLAY to do so. Be sure you always first select PLAY from the main menu (and then exit after it loads up) before entering SCORE ATTACK when you first boot up the game, otherwise your saved scores will be wiped (this is a bug that will be fixed in an upcoming patch).

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:34 am

Well, that explains why my scores aren't saving then, lol.

cyprien · Post by **cyprien** » Mon May 04, 2009 3:39 am

Yeah I went hunting after I asked and wiped mine. Read your post about a minute afterwards... Haha.

Good thing I've been taking pictures! =)