7th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Comments thread

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:04 am

As proposed by Nimitz, let's talk about the reasons for including games in our personal top 25s a bit. (I hope incog doesn't mind me opening a seperate thread for that.)

Last year, I wrote:Criteria for my list: Basically, it's composed of personal favourites, shmups I had the most fun with. This includes old and obscure 8 and 16 bit shooters as well as more modern ones.

[...]

It's natural that if you like one part of a series, you'll like the rest as well. Therefore I only chose one Gradius, one Parodius, one R-Type as representatives of my love for each of the series. The same holds true for developers whose output tend to be a bit same-y.[...]

This year, I obviously broke my own "rules".

- I added another Gradius, because I think Gradius II was such a quantum leap for the series that it deserves some love. It always makes me sad that it seems to stay overshadowed by its relatively run-of-the-mill successor, just because that one is far more common.
- I also added ESPGaluda, although I was really reluctant to include yet another Cave game. In the end, though, it seemed sufficiently different to the others on my list.
- To balance out the abundance of Cave love, I decided to include another Psikyo game as well. My vote went to the almighty Strikers 1945 II, which didn't make the cut last year, but which does belong on any decent list, imo.
- The last new entry is Space Invaders Extreme, which really is a fantastic game. It was clear that it would be in my top 25 the first time I played it. However, it's very likely that it will leave my list next year, when its even more accomplished successor becomes eligible.

To get those four new entries into my list, I had to make some room. These four went out for the following reasons:
- I decided that I'm not really a big fan of the classic Raiden style, so I got rid of Shienryu, even though I like this clone better than the originals.
- After completing part VI, I replayed Thunderforce V and found out that I only really love the second half of the game (the mind-blowing last boss plays a huge part), which I deemed not enough reason to be on my top 25.
- The next two ones are really hard: Musha Aleste and Gate of Thunder are two games I really wanted to keep in my list.
In the end I decided that I'd rather keep Power Strike II instead of Musha Aleste, because the game plays similarly, but it's the greater technical achievement. In fact, I might edit this one out before the voting ends, too, because while it's a technical marvel, I'm not really sure it holds up well overall.
- Gate of Thunder used to be my pick for Thunderforce-style games (just like Shienryu was for Raiden-style titles), but since the game it made room for is Gradius II, I'm not too sad to let it go.

So, what's new in your lists? And what were the reasons for picking those games in favour of others?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:11 pm

I'll try a few comments...likely to attract flames, but oh well.

- Yeah, DDP is still my number one. It's still my all time favorite. Not much more to say.

- Same group of Cave's other stuff on here as last year, slightly shuffled around - can't quite bring myself to place DonPachi (too antiquated), Progear (too memory-reliant for survival), Dangun (too imprecise), or Ibara (just not as good as Garegga) among their company. Any others I've left out I haven't played enough to consider - maybe Ketsui or Death Smiles will make an appearance next year.

- Garegga and Bakraid remain my sole Raizing appearances, though IIRC this is the first year that Garegga was ranked a bit higher - the more I play Garegga the more I like it, but I can't excuse how unnecessarily difficult it is to understand and appreciate the game. A little more user-friendliness (NOT lessened challenge or changed mechanics, just a bit more exposition on Raizing's part) and this game could compete with DDP.

- I'm still pulling like nobody's business for my favorite cute-em-ups (Cotton, TSS, Harmful Park), though they'll never make the Top 25. Each brings some very nice stuff to the table, and are generally (well, except Cotton) well-liked around here, but always lose out...same goes for the (decidedly non-cute) Vasaras.

- The original Giga Wing is still the only one I can put here - while I like some of the things the sequels did, the first game still has a charm that the others lack, and is thus a personal favorite.

- This year marks the first appearance of Raiden on my list - RFA got me into Raiden Fighters Jet, and Raiden DX, while not "my style" in some ways, is still a really great package.

- If memory serves, the above two games knocked Radirgy and Border Down off the list. Others that almost made it are Homura, Psyvariar Revision, Nostradamus, and a handful of others.

That's about all I can think to note offhand.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:57 pm

BulletMagnet wrote: - The original Giga Wing is still the only one I can put here - while I like some of the things the sequels did, the first game still has a charm that the others lack, and is thus a personal favorite.

You took the words right out of my mouth there. (no meatloaf refs please!!!).

GW1 deserves a top 10 position at the least. Both sequels kinda suck imho.

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:27 pm

This is only the second year I've voted, but I think it will be fun to share how I came up with my list anyway. Don't expect anyone to care.

[25] [Dodonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou (PS2)]
[25] [Dodonpachi]
[24] [ESPGaluda (PS2)]
[24] [Ketsui Death Label]
[22] [Gradius Gaiden]
[20] [Ikaruga (GC)]
[18] [Progear no Arashi]
[18] [Mushihime-sama (PS2)]
[15] [Blue Wish Resurrection]
[15] [Guwange]
[15] [Strikers 1945 II]
[15] [Zero Gunner 2 (DC)]
[15] [Ibara (PS2)]
[10] [Radiant Silvergun (Saturn)]
[10] [Gradius V]
[8] [Shikigami no Shiro II (PS2)]
[8] [Border Down] (DC)
[8] [Donpachi]
[5] [Zanac Neo]
[5] [GigaWing]
[2] [ESP Ra.De.]
[2] [Dangun Feveron]
[1] [Homura (PS2)]
[1] [Battle Bakraid]
[1] [Under Defeat (DC)]

Specific game comments:
-new games I've only played this year are Zanac Neo, Ketsui Death Label, Gradius Gaiden and Zero Gunner 2, and I've found them to be fantastic!

-Last year DDP was #1, and this year it has been overtaken by DOJ. The bosses in DOJ are just plain better, and the faster pace is what put it over the top. The only really great DDP boss is the third one, whereas it's easier in DOJ to list the bosses that are annoying pricks (2 and 4) compared to the bosses that rock

-ESP Ra. De. has moved way down. I'm not sure quite what it is, but it's one Cave game that doesn't feel all that good to me. Galuda is so much better, it's absurd!

-I had to decide between Shiki II or Shiki III, because they're too similar to have both. I went with Shiki II because I liked the character abilities more, and because stage 3 in Shiki III is just pure shit. Invisible walls, ugh

-I have both Gradius Gaiden and Gradius V in here because they're very different and made by different companies. In terms of the pure Gradius formula, I love Gaiden, it's just perfection. However I do love V, for different reasons, namely the Treasure style and bullet-hell that makes it a unique Gradius game. The stupid acid stage, the extreme difficulty, and lack of a Maoi stage make this one not the best Gradius though.

-Giga Wing and Donpachi jumped a rank or two due to trying them again while compiling the list. I hadn't played either in a while and forgot just how good they are

-I'm not sure Silvergun should be so high. I love the mechanics, and design, and bosses, but the scoring system and the extreme difficulty and length both put me off a little. I don't like docking a game due just to difficulty, though, so I kept it up, but it has dropped in rank since last year

-Strikers 1945 II has jumped up since last year. I had been keeping it down because I don't like Psikyo as much as most other developers, but Strikers is just the major exception to the rule and I like it too much!

-Homura is on this list because it has awesome bullet patterns and a really unique scoring system! It needs more love in these lists

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:21 pm

Not to sound like a prick, but every year we already have a voting, a results and a discussion thread to check - couldn't we post our own reasons in the discussion thread?

But anyway, I'll post my reasons here, I think I just wrote them once so I just need to find them and paste. ^_^

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:07 am

Another year where no R-Type game appeared on my 25 list, at all, simply because I couldn't choose a favorite between four different titles in the series that I love equally... Maybe by next year I'll finally settle on a favorite.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:15 pm

Added Elemental Master and removed almost anything focused on score, so basically turning into shmups poster circa 2000. Considered placing Thunder Force III higher, but no, still kinda bad. Did remember Thunder Force II this year.

dcharlie · Post by **dcharlie** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:11 pm

first year voting, went for Phoenix as number one, probably get burned at the stake

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:15 pm

dcharlie wrote:first year voting, went for Phoenix as number one, probably get burned at the stake

You might want to edit your post then... you've listed Phoenix as being worth 1 point, which puts it 25th on your list

You get props from me for voting for Sky Kid Deluxe, though

dcharlie · Post by **dcharlie** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:36 am

You might want to edit your post then... you've listed Phoenix as being worth 1 point, which puts it 25th on your list

oops, thanks. will fix.

You get props from me for voting for Sky Kid Deluxe, though

broke my heart selling my PCB collection, Sky Kid Deluxe going was one of the big ones i regret selling. Great game.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:51 am

This is the first year that any non-Leo R-Type appeared on my list...and apparently I think three more deserved to be there.

Way too many Cave games as well.

I almost feel bad about having all the Undeadlines on there...until I remembered how awesome they are. ...and how different they play.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:16 am

Ha, nobody is feeling any love for Thunder Force VI yet. And year by year, it feels most of the lists are becoming more and more convergent.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:47 am

Ganelon wrote:Ha, nobody is feeling any love for Thunder Force VI yet.

Because it sucks (after 48 hours).

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:50 pm

Only have 1 CAVE game in my top 10, as opposed to about 10 last year.

RS, Ikaruga and PS are mainly in there for art style and music reasons.

Two Touhou games in my top 3 makes me feel unclean, but I like playing slow bullet fake challenge pretty colour games.

Bangaioh Spirits is one of the best games of recent years and I'm glad it's now officially categorised as a shooting game.

I like Raizing more than CAVE now.

Gradius V is only there because of two player mode. 1 player mode I find unplayably boring.

I'm looking forward to the final result

Post by **Shatterhand** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:09 pm

Commenting my list..

The only new shmups I got in the last year was Homura, Thunder Force VI and Trigger Heart Exellica Enhanced, which I can't vote and I haven't played it for more than 15 minutes anyway. Must admit I haven't spend a lot of time with Thunder Force VI yet, and Homura is no top 25 material for sure.

It's not a lot different from last year list. DDP-DOJ got a place here, and Battle Squadron for the 1st time is out. This may make the DOJ vs Gradius V battle more interesting

some games changed places as I played them more or less this last year.

Small comments about the games

Aleste 2 is the shmup I most spend time playing, I've 1cc it like a hundres of times. It's going to be hard that any other shmup makes the same impression on me that Aleste 2 did.

Zanac Neo is Compile finest hour, it has its typical old-school non-stoping action with inovative enemy patterns, which is just the way I like my shmups.

Gradius V is fucking brilliant. Treasure got its talent for level/bosses design, removed any complicated score system from the formula and made a masterpiece.

Space Manbow is an amazing game for a 8 bits system, it has amazing level design, and it longs deserves a spot on the top 25 shmups list. It's not there just because it's on an "obscure" system.

Armed Police Batrider it was the game that made me see there was still good shmups being made in the late 90s. For most of the time I played it I ignored its complicated score/rank systems and it seemed to be extremely fun to play.

Gradius Gaiden it looks simple, but again the level design makes it a killer game.

Apidya is other one that deserved to be more known. Best soundtrack ever on any shmup, with awesome levels, awesome enemies, lots of cool bosses... too damn good.

Cotton Boomerang is one of the few shmups that made me go deep on the complicated score system. Awesome game.

Zanac EX awesome old school action, with a good difficulty level.

Beamrider is claustrophobic and fun. If it was released as an arcade game, it would be there with classics like Tempest and Defender. The action never stops, and the adrenalin is always on top level.

Uridium 2 so different from the rest and yet so fun to play.

Power Strike 2 like Zanac ex, it has good old school action coupled with some technic brilliance from a master system game.

Recca it doesn't play like a NES game. Extremely fast and furious, cool score system, and excellent level design

Gokujyou Parodius - all the Parodius games are brilliant and this one IMO is by far the best of them, making good use of different enemy patterns, bosses and varied level design.

Gigawing - My score suck at it, but it's very fun to play

Hype - No other shmup keep throwing enemies at you at the same rate. The action is extremelly fast and it never stops until you see the game over screen. It's obscure even among MSX fans.

Soldier Blade - Good old school gameplay with cool bosses.

Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou - The only new entry on the list, it has been recently promoted to "best Cave game" on my personal opinion. I don't even care about chaining, as I still suck at it, but it has the best level design from any Cave game so far.
Strikers 1945 II - It has the most balanced Psikyo gameplay, being simple to pick up but an excellent challenge to master it.

Gyruss - Simple but very fun

Sonic Wings Special - It's the mixup of 3 different shmups but it's 3 times better than any of them.

Mushihime-Sama - It used to be my fav Cave game, mainly because it seems to be easier to get the gripes with it than all the other ones.

Sengoku Blade - Psikyo gameplay turned in horizontal with great level design

Shikigami No Shiro 2 - The variety of characters which change the gameplay and cool bullet patterns make this a pretty cool game to play.

Gunnac - Compile's forgotten masterpiece. Yet, it has many flaws but yet it's very fun to play.

BIL · Post by **BIL** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:59 am

This is my first year voting, having sat out 07 and 08. Although there are a few prominent titles I've yet to play, I've gotten a solid idea of what I look for in a shooter at this point. Pacing, twitch action and less-linear scoring take priority for me at the moment.

25 - Raiden DX: My personal apex of the genre's decades-tested strengths. Utterly no-nonsense and skill-focused, with depth that demands and rewards study. The medal system, and its implications for stray fire evolves what would've been a solid Toaplan clone into a nerve-wracking test of control. As a fan of sniping bullets and larger hitboxes, DX's core gameplay is all but flawless to me, and with three unique courses and extensive performance grading, it has incredible replay value.

24 - Battle Garegga: Its wildly unconventional scoring tricks, tough-as-nails challenge, and chaotic action have me hooked. I appreciate criticisms of its mechanics being rather obscure... however, with the wealth of knowledge available in 2009, I consider BG's esoterica a wonderful thing to explore.

23 - Strikers 1945 II: Rampant blasting through levels complex enough to give replay value, but never nearly slow enough to tire after a hundredth playthrough. Only Raiden DX's sheer rigor and nearly-equal pace beats this for my desert island shooter.

22 - Dragon Blaze: I'm a huge fan of this game's scoring and the manic point-blank rushing it encourages. Ultra-responsive controls and a very nice hitbox give it an incredibly smooth feel.

21 - Mars Matrix (Dreamcast): Has a very similar effect to Dragon Blaze on me, with the same frantic need to keep moving, attacking and generating score. The yoko screen format is put to great use, as is the shield and close-range attack.

20 - G-Darius: Now that I've played the arcade version, this game has shot up my rankings... the manic pacing and incredibly flexible powerup system have addicted me. May rise or drop in the future as I explore its scoring; for now I'm just enjoying the carnage.

19 - Armed Police Batrider: Will almost certainly place higher in subsequent years... the sheer spread of ships, levels and scoring methods is amazing, as is the quality throughout.

18 - Rayforce: RF is neither rampantly-paced nor free-form in its scoring... however, the routines it demands for high scores create exactly the kind of hair-raising twitch gameplay I love. The defiant lack of a bomb and its brutal rank are harsh, but spot-on controls ensure a tough experience, not a hampered one.

17 - Progear: One of the most tactile scoring systems I've had the pleasure of grappling with, and in a hori to boot. The strange and always fun-to-dodge bullet patterns are another big plus.

16 - DoDonPachi: Rigid scoring paths, but what it lacks in freedom it makes up for with a combination of ravenous destruction and precise execution.

15 - Ikaruga: Another more-restrictive game whose experience I love nonetheless.

14 - Strikers 1999: Although the more streamlined 1945 II wins in my book, 1999 offers more involved scoring, levels and charge mechanics in the same no-nonsense game model.

13 - Zanac Neo: The highest-placing home exclusive on my list. I adore the forgiving yet frantic chaining, and the huge weapon selection. With the difficulty bumped up to max, the hour-plus game length seems to fly past.

12 - Raystorm: A great example of cinematic atmosphere and arcade pacing / scoring depth. Fantastic stage designs both artistically and in gameplay terms. Like RF, scoring is linear but never feels safe or routine thanks to good level design.

11 - Gun Smoke: Hellish intensity, with interesting and unique firepower. It's simply a rush, being able to strafe 45' while under constant fire and negotiating challenging terrain. Speaking of which (sort of)...

10 - Under Defeat: Slower-paced game with just enough of a scoring system to dangerously complicate mowing everything down, and destruction thumpingly brutal enough to make the weightier pace enjoyable in my book. When it periodically heats up a split-second's hesitation will end you, however.

09 - Kamui: Provided you put it on Hard, my favourite "friendly" shooter. A milder game, but also a rigorously well-designed one with addictive scoring, thunderous firepower and a total lack of dead time.

08 - Psyvariar Revision: Points for well-executed originality and one hell of a nonstop thrill ride. I prefer its pacing to either Medium Unit or P2.

07 - Sengoku Blade: Of all horis I've played, the one that nails a vert's simple intensity the best. Of course it's essentially a Psikyo vert rotated 90'... a bit more individuality would place it higher, but this also brings several benefits as-is.

06 - Gradius Gaiden: The high point of the series for me, in terms of level design and pacing. No real scoring system, but two out of three ain't bad at all when the stages are this diverse and well thought-out. Selectable loops once cleared a huge plus, which Gradius V should've kept.

05 - R-Type II: Just as balls-hard and frantic as Sengoku Blade, but in more traditionally memoriser hori style.

04 - Hellfire: Plays like a hori Gun Smoke, combining unique offense with challenging terrain and brutal intensity.

03 - Flying Shark: Simplicity at its finest. Brings to mind many subsequent shooters, several classics in their own right, yet never makes me want to turn it off in favour of them.

02 - Thunder Cross JP: If just a bit tougher and faster-paced from the outset, this would place higher. The Option controls and (once they arrive) tricky level designs are always involving.

01 - Metal Black: Although initially unwieldy, the gameplay is in fact perfectly suited to the action... neither "scraping" enemies from above and below using the unusual firing radius, nor not using the super beam are exactly obvious at first, but both turn this from cheap and demoralising to tough, engrossing and unique. Bonus stages look awesome, but get old quickly and screw up the scoring with luck factors... otherwise a solid if unfriendly game.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:48 am

Nice top 5 and comments, Bill. :]

BIL · Post by **BIL** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:12 am

Thanks! I'm glad I wrote down a few thoughts now... this is the first year I've really felt able to articulate on this genre.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:40 am

Going to explain the more unusual entries in my list as long as my flu+dysentery allows:

Gradius II - Possibly the only "main" Gradius entry pre-V that has the right amount of challenge. Gradius 3 was a rush job and Gradius 4 was many levels of off to me. The first Gradius was too easy.

Daioh - How do you make a checkpoint shooter work? Cut rank in half when the player dies.

Raycrisis - After going back to this for a bit, I'm not sure where the hate for this game is coming from. The draft blowing your ship whichever way into a laser in Raystorm is mostly averted in this entry, and you can actually see your rank in this game. You can also aim your lock-on cursor freely! If the last boss is nearly impossible, just remember it's worth 3 million points out of 26 million for a reason.

Touhou 7: Perfect Cherry Blossom - Played it again, and it's probably the only Touhou game I'm willing to spend any significant amount of time on these days. Depending on how much seeming randomness ZUN will reduce from UFO, though, that might change.

spineshark · Post by **spineshark** » Fri May 01, 2009 8:56 pm

Top tier was really easy for me. I did limit myself to not putting in more than one game from any developer, though that didn't affect much.

Second tier has a few of my old favorites that don't hold up for me as much to playing them a lot, plus Batrider and Dimahoo, which I like just a little less than Garegga, and Samidare, which is probably my favorite doujin overall, considering music and visuals along with mechanics.

The middle group is a lot me being on a huge Seihou kick, as well as a couple games that are similar to second-tiers that I don't like as much (Darius Gaiden to G, and GIGA WANG to Samidare). Kingdom Grandprix is fun and unique, but it seems kind of mean, unbalanced and random even compared to some of the other Raizing games, and EEE is great but still too straightforward and low on stuff to do. Galuda 2 is my other favorite Cave game, though it's definitely a ways behind Dangun for me. I love the mechanics, visuals and music, but it's just not as fast and fun.

MoF is my favorite regular Touhou since it cuts out all the tedious boss-milking (I'm not opposed to it, considering the Raizing games on my list, but it's so boring in Touhou games). Space Invaders '95 is just fun enough that the silly fanservice covers the gap. EE is probably more brilliant than Extra, but it has even less to do and burns out quicker. Diadra Empty is a crazy visual spectacle, but the poor performance (on my admittedly old-ass computer) and wacky balance holds it back.

Gunbird 2 is a bit of a pity vote for Psikyo. Their games are kinda fun but just feel too...tenuously constructed for me to really enjoy. Like they'd fall apart if I stared too hard.

Post by **nZero** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:26 pm

Ok, sure, I'll justify some of my list.

Raiden DX - Solid core gameplay, lots of stuff to find and ways to play, basically infinite replay value with lots of variety in the connected stages. The graphical style is consistent, animation is smooth, and the attention to detail is amazing. Top notch music and high-impact sound effects for big explosions. This game is cruel, yet it is love.

Triggerheart Exelica - The whole game is a love/hate affair. Underwhelming presentation, 16-bit styled soundtrack, scoring based around properly using the non-intuitive anchor mechanic... and yet it's some of the most fun I've had learning and playing a shoot'em up.

Thunder Force AC - Like Thunder Force III, but improved in every possible way. Doesn't drag on for as long as Thunder Force IV. I put TFV on my list too because it's fun to blast through every so often, but because of Free Range it doesn't feel that TF-ish.

Soldier Blade - Nostalgia entry. Still epic, even if much too easy. That's why caravan mode is where it's really at.

Raiden IV - While splitting time between the arcade machine and the X360 port, this one grew on me. Pretty much Raiden III done right. I will say I'd have rather the 2-loop mechanic been dropped from X360 mode.

Psyvariar Revision, Psyvariar 2 - LEV- LEV- LEV- LEVEL- LEV- LEV- LEVEL- LEV- LEVEL UP!!

Raiden, Twin Cobra - My favorite proto-shmups. These are the games that got me into the genre.

Under Defeat - Helicopters! With rocket pods. Lots of giant explosions too. And one of my favorite battleship levels ever. Amazing warlike atmosphere, the little touches by G.Rev are genius.

UN Squadron (Arcade) - Kind of like what would happen if Ace Combat was a side-scrolling shmup? Aiming for higher score by not buying special weapons and shields to save money is a nice touch. The SuperNES port butchered this game, I don't care what anyone else says.

Rayforce - I couldn't think of another game I liked so louis- suggested this one.

Bangai-O - I always wanted to vote for this, now I finally can. I love just barely avoiding tons of enemy shots in order to shoot off giant missile/laser swarms and chain together massive amounts of explosions.

Radirgy - The one time Milestone got it truly right. I love darting around picking stuff up from the ground while trying to maintain a 16x multiplier through the boss.

Imperishable Night - The one time ZUN got it mostly right. Lots of characters, but somehow still feels less unbalanced than most Touhou games I've played.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:31 pm

spineshark wrote:tenuously constructed

eh?

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:57 pm

Not sure what he's getting at there.

Also, nZero, I didn't understand the use of "proto-shmup" in your write-up. I'm curious what you meant.

Plenty of cool lists here. I'm glad Bill posted this year.

I can't decide between Mars Matrix and Trizeal for the bottom of my list; otherwise it's done.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:05 am

Trizeal, definitely.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:20 am

ok, finally got some time and will to comment a bit on my list.

Top 5 : Batrider wins over Garegga, very close call, Batrider feels a bit more "complete".

Konami hori shmups : I'm a big fan of these, last year I didn't put that much in not to clutter my list too much, but I decided to include a few more this year. (for a total of 5 konami hori shmups). I wish I couldve included Xexex and Parodius Da! too....

Zen-ichi : I wish i could have included more doujin shmups in my list, stuff like Touhou PCB, Blue wish resurection, Patriot dark. But in the end I feel only zen-ichi is fun/great enough to be in that list.

Psikyo shmups: I really have mixed feelings about psikyo games. I like how straight to the point and quick they are (first loop is always under 15min). What makes the psikyo games lose points are the bosses mostly (and sometimes the lack of any scoring system whatsoever). Most of the bosses(and even levels) become dumb and easy once you know what to do against the right patterns (tap dodge, safe spots) and it feels like your not dodging all that much anymore.

finally, a quick list of my personal honorable mentions(we need a top 50

)

Strikers III
Strikers I
Raiden Fighters 1
Daioh
ESP Ra.De.
Batsugun
Star Force
Tengai
Mars Matrix
Gaplus
Raiden 1/2
Triggerheart Exelica
Halley's Comet

and more...

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:27 am

Rob wrote:Trizeal, definitely.

OK, posted my list. I'm pretty happy with it, mainly because it's got me wanting to play a bunch of things.

BIL · Post by **BIL** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:33 am

nZero wrote:Under Defeat - Helicopters! With rocket pods. Lots of giant explosions too. And one of my favorite battleship levels ever. Amazing warlike atmosphere, the little touches by G.Rev are genius.

I almost wanted to include a sublist for sheer destruction. UD would be rivalled only by DX's intensity and Garegga's outright madness on my list. I really, really like UD's explosions, especially the delayed ones on large vehicles. It's like *THUMP* "Eat that, you" *BOOOOOM* "son of a bitch!"

spineshark · Post by **spineshark** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:46 am

Rob wrote:
spineshark wrote:tenuously constructed
eh?

I dunno, they just look and feel weird to me compared to other games. Fun, and I like the coin system, but I can never really get into them for some reason.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat May 02, 2009 2:57 am

Thought I'd be a man and select a number one this year. Had to be Mars Matrix. The only score-based shooter to not feel tedious and increasingly trivial the better I get at it. I love the ugly "space shooter" appearance, no anime crap and no tate. On a related note, feeling a bit more love for Capcom. Their partnership bumped Takumi up many levels. Before we get Twin Cobra 2 and after Capcom we get Night Raid and Giga Wing Generations. Not their best work. So in addition to those CPS-2 favorites, add CPS-1 Forgotten Worlds and Varth. From now on I'm calling Mars Matrix a Capcom game.

Takumi

Psikyo -- six picks is extreme overkill, but I think they were near flawless for a while and doesn't bump anything off of the list that is deserving, covers all bases. Strikers II is the most enjoyable to pick up and play at anytime and when they hit their stride. Dragon Blaze is their masterpiece, with graphics that seemed to come out of nowhere. I like the pared down ship selection after Gunbird 2 and Strikers 1999 had some waste, showing that they could still cut back and keep their formula tight when necessary. But it's still got all of the great extras like tech bonuses. The only reason this is not #2 is that they were close to swinging the balance from survival to score and that isn't their strength.

New stuff this year -- Sengoku Ace. V-Five. Never thought I'd like an early Psikyo game enough to all clear it. The simple (simpler) style of Ace has its appeal, just took a long time to find it. The style of the game was always one of their best pre-Dragon Blaze. V-Five is like a Pachi I can enjoy and will be my Cave stand-in after Progear takes a bullet.

Batrider/Garegga -- there are lots of things I really like about these two. The thing that really holds them back for me are the more tedious/trivial scoring elements, such as systematically destroying every fragile little gunpod hanging off of the bosses. That's not something I'd want to do every game, or having to pick characters I don't want to use just so I can play the entire game. Awesome games, don't get me wrong.

And after playing it again recently, I don't think Einhander gets enough credit. Maybe this is just about side-scrolling shooters not getting enough credit anymore.

Post by **nZero** » Sat May 02, 2009 3:03 am

professor ganson wrote:Also, nZero, I didn't understand the use of "proto-shmup" in your write-up. I'm curious what you meant.

Shoot'em ups that heavily inspired the design and gameplay of many many following entries into the genre. "Archetypal shmup" wasn't as catchy

Rob wrote:And after playing it again recently, I don't think Einhander gets enough credit. Maybe this is just about side-scrolling shooters not getting enough credit anymore.

Einhander just barely missed my list, actually. Mostly I just thought of it too late to squeeze it in.