RayCrisis & nature/science defying elements in Shooters.

[ST Dragon]

In almost every single Shoot Em up we see various fictional and sci-fi elements and rarely bother to check on their scientific aspect or possible validity.

For example, today I was playing RayCrisis on the PC and there was one thing that caught my attention.

At the stage “Consciousness Part”


You descend into an area where there is a large vertical tubular stream of liquid, which is elevating and passing through the level and large battle ships flying around it. At some point you enter the tube and the fight with the end level Boss commences.

I was wondering, what is this tube supposed to be really? Is it made of liquid, the surrounding area made up of air and the battleships flying over? Or is it the other way around? The tube made up of air and the whole area surrounding it engulfed in liquid and the battle ships actually being submarines that float around the void of the tube?
How could (if?) this be “explained” scientifically?
What were the Taito artists thinking when they conceived this idea?

What other similar elements can you think of in other shooters?

[ZOM]

Uhm... Spaceships shooting pew pew lasers maybe?

[BIL]

Taito's artists seemed fond of Bernal Spheres. You fly over one in Gekirindan's first stage, and through destroyed ones in Darius Gaiden's Zone E and Metal Black's third stage. Not a Taito game, but you're in the middle of one in Hyper Duel when it's suddenly obliterated.

In RC's context I'd guess the resemblance is just artistic, and the tube is a conduit. Equivalent to a bloodstream or so forth. Maybe it's a membrane permeable to stuff outside it, hence the player just dropping through and the boss "antibody" showing up. I really don't know enough concretely about RC's setting to say more... it's all metaphysical anyway, iirc.

RC had a great premise... it's like X-Mulitply set within an artificial life-form. It's too bad most of the game's stages don't take advantage of the setting, aside from Consciousness and the last battle.

[Seelen]

or maybe underage maids who can fly? I think it would be easier to list the few things that ARE realistic about these games =P

[ST Dragon]

High powered lasers that can cut through steel like hot butter can be created today and powerful rockets that can reach Mars too.

I was referring to other more scientific/nature defying elements.

[ST Dragon]

or maybe underage maids who can fly? I think it would be easier to list the few things that ARE realistic about these games =P

Yeah that’s true, but let’s just concentrates to the ones that really stick out shall we?!

Primarily sci-fi, space themed shooters and not unholy marriages of science, technology & sorcery seen in Shikagami No Shiro & Esp.Rade

[Udderdude]

Militaries that award your pilot extra ships based on wacky, arbitrary rules like blowing up enemies in front of their face, blowing them up within a certian time of eachother, collecting objects that fall out of their ships for no apparent reason, etc ..

The fact that your pilot appears in a new ship 1-2 seconds after apparently being completely obliterated .. (Bonus, name a military shmup where this doesn't happen, hint, WW2)

Ships that defy all laws of aerodynamics by being able to start and stop on a dime anywhere on a 2 dimensional plane, but are completely unable to move on the z-axis.

etc etc. conclusion : videogames don't make sense

[jpj]

moving faster than bullet

[SockPuppetHyren]

Homing Lazers...which just happens to be the best idea for shmups ever.

[kengou]

I love how, in a real space ship, if you destroy red colored aliens they drop a glowing orb thing, and if you fly your spaceship into it, you can choose to make your spaceship upgrade itself.

[ZOM]

Homing Lazers...which just happens to be the best idea for shmups ever.

+1

[Ex-Cyber]

The sheer amount of awesome it takes to single-handedly fight off an alien invasion in a zillion-dollar prototype spaceship warps reality around the pilot.

[Thunder Force]

Is it made of liquid, the surrounding area made up of air and the battleships flying over? Or is it the other way around? The tube made up of air and the whole area surrounding it engulfed in liquid and the battle ships actually being submarines that float around the void of the tube? How could (if?) this be “explained” scientifically?

There is nothing in Raycrisis' stages that requires any "scientific" or otherwise real explanation, as the narrative takes place inside a VR simulation. Your question has much in common with asking to explain the rules of a dream.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

Another odd effect is found in Gaiares stage 2, after the snake-like midboss--it definitely has some non-intuitive gravity effects going on. Gravity pull down makes sense, but gravity pull up, without the presence of a black hole, is definitely different.

Essentially, the gravity forces the ship to always revert to the middle (i.e., move up and the ship is forced down again, move down and the ship is forced up again) and when dodging enemy shots, the shots tend to move in the same direction that the ship is moved.

[ST Dragon]

Speaking of Gaiares, in level 3 after having warped to a black hole infested area of space with purple nebula, you discover a huge Citadel floating in the middle of nowhere.





Or later on in stage 5, you fly between a fire scorched planet like Venus / or star and a frozen ice world. You can tell from the background that there is quite a large distance between them, but later on the 2 stellar objects attract each other and almost collide, while maintaining a minimum distance for your ship to be able to fly through and fight the enemies at the same time.

[ST Dragon]

There is nothing in Raycrisis' stages that requires any "scientific" or otherwise real explanation, as the narrative takes place inside a VR simulation.

I knew that RayCrisis was the prequel of RayForce, but I didn't know that the stages were not "real"
Thanks for clearing that up.

[Observer]

There is nothing in Raycrisis' stages that requires any "scientific" or otherwise real explanation, as the narrative takes place inside a VR simulation.

I knew that RayCrisis was the prequel of RayForce, but I didn't know that the stages were not "real"
Thanks for clearing that up.

Did you notice that you are coming out of a green wireframe mess when you start the game? And everything has a strange look. It kinda gives away the digital nature of the whole thing. Plus bosses get quite surreal and I love it. Usually a Taito trademark: when things look normal a motherfucking giant lobster or a crab will come out with an aircraft carrier and firing lasers.

In short, doesn't have to make sense.

At this rate we would end up questioning how some giant golden diamond-shaped crystal can warp things back in time and reset the world now and then 'until they learn'. Or how it can assemble a big badass cannon out of nowhere.

Or why in Blazing Star we end up fighting a gigantic, deformed alien baby or why there is a cow in Death Smiles and soon a baby firing danmaku out of his eyes Or the surrealistic nature of Darius. Absolute Defender, Tripod Sardine, etc.

But this thread reminded me how badass those homing lasers are.

[ST Dragon]

Excellent quotes Observer! lol!

But I'm still waiting your opinions on those Doujin shooters I posted on the other thread...

[PC Engine Fan X!]

There is nothing in Raycrisis' stages that requires any "scientific" or otherwise real explanation, as the narrative takes place inside a VR simulation.

I knew that RayCrisis was the prequel of RayForce, but I didn't know that the stages were not "real"
Thanks for clearing that up.

So the events that take place in Raystorm, are they considered a three-dimensional spin-off on the 2-D events that take place in RayForce?

If the events in RayCrisis take place before RayForce, do the events in Raystorm follow after what is shown in RayForce? If that is so, then Ray Storm would be considered the "final" chapter in the Ray series.

Or is it that RayForce is a wholly story unto itself (with RayStorm being just another 3-D interpetation of what takes place in RayForce)? Taito sure knows how to mess with shmuppers' heads in screwing the chronological timeline of the Ray series. ^_~

I was stunned to see the ending of RayCrisis that lead to the start of RayForce...I was hoping to see some sort of grand finale conclusion to the entire Ray series as a befitting end but Taito decided to spin things around.

It would be interesting to see if a fourth Ray game could be made...or has Taito always envisioned it's Ray shmup series as a trilogy from the beginning of conception?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[BIL]

Raystorm's story & premise is entirely different from Rayforce's, so I don't think it could be considered a 3D remake. In Storm the governments of colonised planets mutiny against Earth, with the player leading a counterattack on Earth's behalf. Force tells of a last-ditch attack on Earth by exiled humans, after its complete takeover by the Con-Human AI fought in Crisis.

I'd like to know if there's any official word on Storm's place in the series, though... is it a self-contained story that just happens to re-use the R-Grey fighters (for brand recognition + gameplay continuity)? Or maybe it takes place before even Crisis, explaining the ship's presence in later events? Seems unlikely to occur after Force for certain reasons.

edit: Sorry PCEFX, misread your post. Yeah, I think of Raystorm as a spinoff rather than a remake or sequel in the Rayforce + Raycrisis story. It's a trilogy in gameplay only, as far as I know.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Raystorm's story & premise is entirely different from Rayforce's, so I don't think it could be considered a 3D remake. In Storm the governments of colonised planets mutiny against Earth, with the player leading a counterattack on Earth's behalf. Force tells of a last-ditch attack on Earth by exiled humans, after its complete takeover by the Con-Human AI fought in Crisis.

I'd like to know if there's any official word on Storm's place in the series, though... is it a self-contained story that just happens to re-use the R-Grey fighters (for brand recognition + gameplay continuity)? Or maybe it takes place before even Crisis, explaining the ship's presence in later events? Seems unlikely to occur after Force for certain reasons.

edit: Sorry PCEFX, misread your post. Yeah, I think of Raystorm as a spinoff rather than a remake or sequel in the Rayforce + Raycrisis story. It's a trilogy in gameplay only, as far as I know.

Thanks for clairification of the Ray series, Bill. I'd have to say that Taito sure knows how to throw a monkey wrench with it. So then a perhaps another prequel or sequel to Raystorm would the next logical step to continue on with the story if Raystorm is regarded as a spinoff game title. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[kengou]

I also like how all the space ships bank into their turns. In space.

[worstplayer]

I also like how all the space ships bank into their turns. In space.

That actually makes sense. Something with hover jets (like Raiden MK2) would bank to use them for sharp turns.
Of course, it would also have to turn the other way to stop, but that would cause input lag so that little bit of un-realism is acceptable

[sven666]

I also like how all the space ships bank into their turns. In space.

That actually makes sense.

umm no it doesnt, there is no use for rudders on a spacecraft.. the only "realistic" movement in a space shmup i can think of is steam hearts which has that 8-way thruster boost to move your ship around..

[worstplayer]

I also like how all the space ships bank into their turns. In space.

That actually makes sense.

umm no it doesnt, there is no use for rudders on a spacecraft.. the only "realistic" movement in a space shmup i can think of is steam hearts which has that 8-way thruster boost to move your ship around..

Sorry, I didn't explain it clearly. Here's what I mean

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Cool comic book inspired drawing...would be even better if it was in full living color. Sharpen up those colored pencils and fill in the blanks of that Raiden II inspired sketch, worstplayer. ^_~

The PSX game of Xevious 3D G+ comes to mind if you use the optional NegCon controller and twist the Xevious fightercraft on the "z" axis...it's that you still can't avoid missles or bullets even if you do move your Xevious ship on the z-axis. Nice little touch of Namco to include this option though.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Jockel]

The sheer amount of awesome it takes to single-handedly fight off an alien invasion in a zillion-dollar prototype spaceship warps reality around the pilot.

[ST Dragon]

That actually makes sense.

umm no it doesnt, there is no use for rudders on a spacecraft.. the only "realistic" movement in a space shmup i can think of is steam hearts which has that 8-way thruster boost to move your ship around..

Sorry, I didn't explain it clearly. Here's what I mean

Nice sketch!
It does portrait some humor too!

[Koa Zo]

The PSX game of Xevious 3D G+ comes to mind if you use the optional NegCon controller and twist the Xevious fightercraft on the "z" axis...it's that you still can't avoid missles or bullets even if you do move your Xevious ship on the z-axis. Nice little touch of Namco to include this option though.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

awesome! I did not know about this.
now, I've just got to dig a NegCon out of storage...
Xevious 3D G+ has actually been in my "now playing" rotation since the beginning of the year.
...and only yesterday I was reminded about the code to unlock the Tekken characters as playable 'ships'.

[kengou]

That actually makes sense.

umm no it doesnt, there is no use for rudders on a spacecraft.. the only "realistic" movement in a space shmup i can think of is steam hearts which has that 8-way thruster boost to move your ship around..

Sorry, I didn't explain it clearly. Here's what I mean

In order for that to work, the ship would also need thrusters on the top/bottom of each wing, because there wouldn't be any flaps or ailerons to roll the craft (no air in space).

Your idea is plausible I guess, but still not a smart design for a spacecraft at all. Also, while we're on space flight, ships in space-based shmups also have engines constantly ignited even for maintaining constant velocity. Realistically they would only fire the main engines when moving up the screen (in a vert), and fire retrorockets in the forward direction when moving back down the screen.

But, I guess we can't expect our arcade games to get space physics correct when most movies can't get it right either.