Next-gen discussion

[Vexorg]

To be honest, I haven't paid a whole lot of attention either, other than a little bit at E3. I don't really care much about the games for the next generation either. I'm most interested in some of the under-the-hood changes the X360 is going to bring though. For one thing, having all wireless controllers will be nice (although I imagine by the time it's said and done everyone will be using them) and the fact that X360 controllers should also be usable on a PC will be a plus too. I also happen to like the idea of having Media Center Extender capability in the X360. On the surface, Revolution sounds like it has some potential, but that one I'm just going to wait and see on. I don't know if I'd pick one up at launch, but I suspect that like other Nintendo stuff, it will eventually be worth getting one for the first party stuff. They can move stuff pretty well as long as they have compelling software (right now in Japan, the DS is outselling the PSP by a significant margin thanks largely to Nintendogs). As for Sony, I'm not really going to make and judgments on their stuff until we see actual code running on an actual system. I doubt anyone but the forum trolling fanboys (as seen on various mainstream boards, not here thankfully) believes that the videos they showed at E3 came from an actual PS3. To me, something seems just a bit off about the whole thing, almost like they had to rush the first mockup they could find in the lab out the door.

[judesalmon]

I think all three of the next-gen systems will be equally-powerful, so it comes down to what games come out for each system.

The PS3 will be probably be the best bet as it will have the most support and will home to more of the quirky stuff, like the PS2 is. My two favourite genres are the shmup and RPGs, and like the PS2, I can see the PS3 being home to the majority of these.

[Stormwatch]

The only next-gen game that got my attention is Alan Wake, and that's mostly because it's from the creators of Max Payne.

[raiden]

Just a question to everyone complaining about the new systems being nothing more than the same stuff with prettier graphics:

Why do you get excited about new Cave games? Why did you buy Border Down, or Shikigami no Shiro 2, or Gradius V? Isn't "the same stuff with new graphics" exactly the kind of thing this forum goes apeshit over every time a new shmup is released? Has it ever occured to you that a FPS fan might feel the same way about the idea of Halo 3 or Perfect Dark Zero as people here felt at the announcement of R-Type Final or ESPGaluda?

well, I don´t go apeshit over every new shmup release either. Like in other genres, I´m always asking if the new game actually has any exciting new ideas, if it´s just a rehash of old concepts that might have been done better already, or if it has new ideas which I simply don´t like. From the games you mentioned, ESP Galuda is the only one meaning anything to me.

Regarding FPS games, I like the genre in general, but I don´t like the way it focuses on realistic settings increasingly with recent releases. I prefer cheesy stuff like Duke Nukem or a sick atmosphere like Quake over the militaristic WW2 or Vietnam settings by far.

Regarding racing games, I like the genre in general, but I don´t like the way they focus on car tuning and feature unlocking, which I consider as ways to make the genre playable for everyone, but losing any challenge in the process. There´s also a noticeable trend towards simulations, which doesn´t even disturb me as much for the effect it has on car handling as for the effect it has on course selection, because more and more racing games get the same courses again and again: real world racing tracks, of which there aren´t that many. I found it exciting to play on tracks like Suzuka or Nuerburgring at first, but now they are recycled in most new releases, I can´t stand it anymore. Same with cars: Where have all the fantasy creations of previous racing games gone to? Nowadays you compare how game X´s Dodge Viper or Ferrari handles compared to game Y´s variation of the same cars. That´s boring to me.

[MadSteelDarkness]

I pretty much know for sure that I'll be buying each of the new consoles at some point. However, I won't pick any of them up until there's something released that I really want to play. None of XB360's announced launch titles appeal to me personally (except maybe a couple of the racers), so I'll sit it out until something really strikes my fancy.

[jp]

You have to remember than Xbox is only 3 or so years old, this is the first time nextgen is being forced on us so early.

Hmmm...Saturn > Dreamcast, anyone?

Will Microsoft suffer the same fate as Sega?

Time will tell I guess

No. Because Microsoft isn't a bajillion dollars in debt. Microsoft could kick back and lose money all damn day on their consoles, it'll never affect them unless Windows somehow loses to Linux, which I think any reasonanble person knows will probably never happen.

Huh? Come on jp, spit it out. I can't make a sense out of the above phrase.

attempt to a translation no°1 = "I'd like so much to bash Sony, but at the moment their PS3 doesn't offer enough reasons to complain"

attempt to a translation no°2 = "I would like to give my unbiased two cents on the matter, but you're here at shmups are a bunch of stupid Sony fanboys"

Actually, kind of a mix between both. Here's my response on each:
1. I don't feel like seeing seven essays pop up quoting me.

2. Sony didn't show off anything at E3 except movies, and all of them sequels. There's nothing to really talk about except Blu-Ray technology and a retarded controller. *shrugs*

As for another aspect:
I find it... amusing... that Squeenix is supporting Microsoft now. I know they're throwing FFXI on the Xbox 360 because they're mad at Sony for dropping the HDD, and seeing as how Squeenix + Sega and Nintendo not just dropping the ball, but throwing it out a window and into an adjacent parking lot = the reason Sony got anywhere... eh... I think it could be interesting. I think Microsoft will give Sony a run for their money if they can get the Final Fantasy games on their console, because all MS really needs to take the whole shebang is Japan... and God knows the Japanese live for some Final Fantasy... *though I personally have liked the series since 6*

Call of Duty 2
The Darkness
Ghost Recon 3
Madden NFL 06
Perfect Dark Zero
Project Gotham 3
Dead or Alive 4
Quake 4
Tony Hawk's A.W.
Tigerwoods 2005

Oblivion and Gears of War. Thats all I care about. Maybe Quake 4 and Perfect Dark Zero, but... eh... just not really my thing.

[sethsez]

I think two or three interesting games at or near the launch of a system is pretty much par for the course.

[Darkcomet72]

I think it's been confirmed that the Revolution isn't gonna be Dual screen.

Anyway, It's impossible to talk about the Revolution because there is still so much being hidden. PS3 and XBOX 360 have a year headstart: The Psychological aspect in America: E3. The Rev won't be fully reconized until next year at E3. (That's basically 8 months, because of leakers)

[Vexorg]

Doesn't Sony still own a portion of Square Enix though? To be honest, it surprised me when they started releasing games on Nintendo platforms again, because I figured that Sony wouldn't allow it.

[jordy]

No. Because Microsoft isn't a bajillion dollars in debt. Microsoft could kick back and lose money all damn day on their consoles, it'll never affect them unless Windows somehow loses to Linux, which I think any reasonanble person knows will probably never happen.

Interesting concept of business, not sure Microsoft's CFO, accountants or shareholders would agree.

But agreed Microsoft is not likely to be bankrupted by XBOX 360's failure however that does not mean they cannot and will not 'lose' this generation to Sony due to releasing their product to early.

I'm sure SEGA thought they were on to a winner by releasing Dreamcast early.

J.

[mannerbot]

I think you missed the whole point there.

[FatCobra]

I think it's been confirmed that the Revolution isn't gonna be Dual screen.

Anyway, It's impossible to talk about the Revolution because there is still so much being hidden. PS3 and XBOX 360 have a year headstart: The Psychological aspect in America: E3. The Rev won't be fully reconized until next year at E3. (That's basically 8 months, because of leakers)

You see, the thing with Nintendo is this: they like to be very mysterious. I wouldn't worry about specs, hardware, or how well it makes toast. It's all about the games. Of all forums, we should be the ones who already know that.

I have very little interest in the next-gen, but my thoughts may change in a year or so.

The thing with me and console generations is that, as a kid, my parents always got me the machines on my birthdays. Usually my birthday will be a couple months after the systems' launch dates, so I was always up to date on the latest hardware. But, when the PS2/Xbox/GC era came around, I was off to college, so no next-gen systems for me. So anyway, I got a job to continue fueling my videogaming hobby. Finding a job here in Tampa can be tough, so it was a while before I got one and managed to buy a PS2, just in time for it to become obsolite in a couple of months....

Am I doomed to play last-gen systems for the rest of my life? Is it such a bad thing anyway?

[system11]

Regarding racing games, I like the genre in general, but I don´t like the way they focus on car tuning and feature unlocking, which I consider as ways to make the genre playable for everyone, but losing any challenge in the process. There´s also a noticeable trend towards simulations, which doesn´t even disturb me as much for the effect it has on car handling as for the effect it has on course selection, because more and more racing games get the same courses again and again: real world racing tracks, of which there aren´t that many. I found it exciting to play on tracks like Suzuka or Nuerburgring at first, but now they are recycled in most new releases, I can´t stand it anymore. Same with cars: Where have all the fantasy creations of previous racing games gone to? Nowadays you compare how game X´s Dodge Viper or Ferrari handles compared to game Y´s variation of the same cars. That´s boring to me.

I saw many people claiming MC3 was better than MC2 because "it has licensed cars". They're doing this for the gaming public - and they seem to want reality, something I play games to get away from. Even Juiced which has been long delayed, has had the handling redone to be more sim-like - can't see the attraction at all, PGR2 was the closest to sim racing I like to get these days. Tuning however, I do like - if a newbie can put a bigger engine in his car, a skilled player can too - and in fact the skilled player is likely to make even better use of the extra horsepower. In the days of online racing, purely cosmetic tuning is almost essential now as a game feature - people /do/ like to be seen in /their/ car. I know I do Difference is that I prefer to thrash that car down alleyways and over jumps, with a deep and consistent but entirely unrealistic handling model.

I'm still at a loss to explain the success of Forza. It's just PGR2 with tuning and more sim handling, yet people are praising it like it's the best game EVER. GT4 is more impressive on slower hardware - what gives?

[FatCobra]

I agree with you bloodflowers. MC3 is fun online, not only because of the racing, but just to cruise around and check out other people's rides.

[raiden]

saw many people claiming MC3 was better than MC2 because "it has licensed cars". They're doing this for the gaming public - and they seem to want reality, something I play games to get away from.

yeah, I´m aware of that (same with FPS), and I´m on your side.

Even Juiced which has been long delayed, has had the handling redone to be more sim-like - can't see the attraction at all, PGR2 was the closest to sim racing I like to get these days.

In general, I find sim aspects interesting, things like tank strategy or damage model can add depth to a racing game. What I don´t like is the trend, causing developers to shy away from unrealistic concepts, because those can be just as, if not more exciting. I´m missing new games like Ridge Racer, Wipeout, Crazy Taxi, San Francisco Rush, Hydro Thunder, this kind of stuff, in the current or coming generation.
I should have given Midnight Club another chance on the Xbox, I tried the PS2 version of part2, and that one suffered from both bad framerate and collision handling. When I slide sideways against a wall, I want to scratch alongside or bounce back, but not come to a halt instantly.

Tuning however, I do like - if a newbie can put a bigger engine in his car, a skilled player can too - and in fact the skilled player is likely to make even better use of the extra horsepower. In the days of online racing, purely cosmetic tuning is almost essential now as a game feature - people /do/ like to be seen in /their/ car.

yes, I understand that, but I was rather talking of "broken" tuning systems like present in the Gran Turismo series, where you can just tune your way out of a race you can´t win by skill. This is, of course, especially bad in a game which allows fast cornering by bouncing into the boundary, and it makes perfect sense the latest part offers the option to let the game play itself - that´s about the most consequential way of developers dealing with the realization that they´re just completely unable to make the gameplay fun in itself. Apart from quitting their job.

I'm still at a loss to explain the success of Forza. It's just PGR2 with tuning and more sim handling, yet people are praising it like it's the best game EVER. GT4 is more impressive on slower hardware - what gives?

I haven´t played Forza, but from what I hear it basically remedied all that was wrong with Toca2, for example people trying to bounce other people off the track get enough damage to their own car to reward careful driving.