Easy shmups being frowned upon (Blast Wind rant)

[jp]

So I was playing through Blast Wind today, running a review for it through my mind (for that is what I do now that the shmup collection is nearing completion and thus the true Saturn website is approaching quickly...), and it dawned on me that the main complaint people have with this game is the lack of difficulty. It has very fun gameplay, some of the best music ever to grace a shmup, OK graphics, replay value due to alternate paths, and fairly solid sound. And yet, everytime it gets brought up HERE, it gets shot down for being too easy.


But! wouldn't this mentality also shoot down like, half of the PC-Engine shmup library? I mean, I'm personally yet to play the Star Soldier games, but its my understanding that they're easier than Nexzr, and IMO Nexzr is a million times easier than Blast Wind. And of course, Gate of Thunder/Lords of Thunder are both incredibly easy, but still highly praised.

So, just out of sheer curiosty, what is it that makes Blast Wind "meh" and a ton of other highly celebrated yet incredibly easy shmups so acclaimed? Because if it wasn't for the constant nagging on Blast Wind's difficulty (or rather, lack thereof), I would probably rate it as an A class shmup...

[Thunder Force]

of course, Gate of Thunder/Lords of Thunder are both incredibly easy, but still highly praised.

Thunderforce III also fits the "very easy, universally praised" category.

Any others?

[BulletMagnet]

Space Megaforce is pretty easy (on defaults, anyways) and most people (myself included) seem to like it...some would lump most Compile shmups into one similar category along those lines, but I haven't played enough of them to say whether or not I'd agree. Harmful Park might be another one (I mention these two mainly cuz they're the only 2 games I've 1CCed, heh).

In any case, I (as you might've gathered) have no problem with relatively easy shmups as long as they're otherwise well made. If a game's easy to beat then it deserves being noted, but doesn't mean the thing isn't worth playing at all.

[jp]

of course, Gate of Thunder/Lords of Thunder are both incredibly easy, but still highly praised.

Thunderforce III also fits the "very easy, universally praised" category.

Any others?

Thunder Force IV and V? I didn't want to throw all of Tecno Soft's stuff out, as Blast Wind was already noted. But I guess we could. ^_^

[Cthulhu]

I don't mind games being easy most of the time, shmup or other. I don't get 1CCs all that often (although I've been lucky recently) or concern myself with them most of the time... yeah, I do complain about a game being too easy ocassionally, but it rarely stops me from enjoying anything.

I do like it when easy games include a difficulty option that makes a noticable difference though... it helps breathe some extra life into a game.

Incidentally, I like both TG16/PCE shmups and Techno Soft shmups a lot.

[Ghegs]

I do like it when easy games include a difficulty option that makes a noticable difference though... it helps breathe some extra life into a game.

Aye. I don't mind easy games, especially when there's a difficulty option available. 'Course, if when the game is played at the hardest setting it still doesn't pose much of a challenge (Gaia Seed), then it's a bit disappointing. Harmful Park, for example, is quite the bitch on Very Hard.

Not every game needs to be insanely hard, the easier games are good for the beginners and the "oldies" who have lost confidence in their skillz. And sometimes it's just nice to blast through an easy shmup when you don't feel like dying a peaceful death in DOJ's last level yet again...

[Cthulhu]

I put the "noticable difference" bit in there because of Nightstriker... I was playing that yesterday and I set it to "very hard" but it wasn't any different from normal -at all-. I've played a couple of shmups where the difficulty settings didn't seem to do much, but I can't recall any offhand...

[scrilla4rella]

I just got my first 1CC on Gate of Thunder . Man is that game awsome! It is one of the few games that makes me want to replay it on a harder difficulty after the 1CC.

Seriously, JP, if your a technosoft/thunder force fan you really need to check out Gate of Thunder. In some ways i'd say it's superior to TF III.

Damn, I need to get me a copy of Blast Wing

c-

[Shatterhand]

Blast Wind is AWESOME.

I guess lots of my fav shmups are easy shmups, as I also love Compile shmups.

But I found Blast Wind to be a lot easier than Thunder Forve V or Soldier Blade, for instance.

Still an awesome game, that should be more played.

[Bar81]

I don't think lack of difficulty is a major issue as long as the game is enjoyable. Frankly, I see problems with Blast Wind outside of difficulty which, while fun, definitely seperate it from the top tier of shmups. Personally, I play Blast Wind when I want to unwind and just blow through a game destroying everything in my path. It's not the world's greatest shooter either technically or gameplay wise but it's fun and that's good enough.

[freddiebamboo]

Not all shooters should be DOJ hard, sometimes it's nice to play something a little less stressful (and frustrating!)

And it's always nice to get a 1cc

[professor ganson]

of course, Gate of Thunder/Lords of Thunder are both incredibly easy, but still highly praised.

Thunderforce III also fits the "very easy, universally praised" category.

Any others?

Just played TF III for the first time today and it didn't strike me as all that easy, though it obviously has that reputation. I only had time to play for about 20 minutes--- perhaps after a few hours with it the parts that I'm getting stuck on won't be a problem at all.

[zinger]

I also find TFIII quite hard (but I don't think I've played much longer than 20 min either). Anyway, Elemental Master (also by Tecnosoft) is really easy and REALLY good.

[professor ganson]

I guess lots of my fav shmups are easy shmups, as I also love Compile shmups.

I suppose Compile games are a bit on the easy side, though my favorite right now, Neo Zanac, is not exactly easy. The power-ups and extra lives are plentiful, but so are the enemies! What a freakin' awesome game!

[professor ganson]

I also find TFIII quite hard (but I don't think I've played much longer than 20 min either). Anyway, Elemental Master (also by Tecnosoft) is really easy and REALLY good.

Nice to hear that E.Master is really good. I've been thinking about getting it for awhile; I really should do so.

[Metal Gear Okt]

Zanac Neo is one of my faves, and it's definitely on the easier side.

[professor ganson]

Zanac Neo is one of my faves, and it's definitely on the easier side.

Well, I can get pretty far in it on 1 credit, but it never feels like it is easy to do so. Though I will say the bosses are rather easy so far.

But if this is an easy game, its being easy does not at all count against its excellence IMO.

[Shazzner]

Speak for yourself, I suck at most of all of them.

[BrianC]

I also find TFIII quite hard (but I don't think I've played much longer than 20 min either). Anyway, Elemental Master (also by Tecnosoft) is really easy and REALLY good.

Nice to hear that E.Master is really good. I've been thinking about getting it for awhile; I really should do so.

BTW, you can make it harder by playing in Japanese mode (according to a faq at gamefaqs).

[Shatterhand]

Zanac Neo is one of my faves, and it's definitely on the easier side.

Zanac Neo, coupled with Aleste 2, are my fav shmups ever.

Zanac Neo is a little harder than Zanac EX (Or Zanac NES), still a little easier than the original Zanac on MSX. Actually, a lot easier.

Zanac on MSX is NOT easy. I think Compile begun to make easy games after Zanac EX. Zanac EX isn't exactly VERY easy, but it isn't hard either. Before that. Zanac is a bitch, Guardic is hard as hell, Final Justice is annoyingly hard, and Gulkave is pretty difficult too.

None of those hard games from them is better than their later stuff.

[EOJ]

Blast wind is fun, if it's too easy just jack up the difficulty. One thing of note, JP you said something like Blast wind has "Some of the best music ever in a shmup"?? I have to disagree, BW's soundtrack never struck me as great, it's good but nothing noteworthy. Many NEO-GEO shmups have better soundtracks (Blazing Star, Pulstar, Last Resort), and loads of Saturn shmups have better soundtracks too (Souky, RSG, Hyper duel, etc). But I must concede "good", "great", "better", and "best" are all relative terms.

[ST Dragon]

Lords of Thunder for the SEGA CD is very easy indeed compared to the DUO, as it can be completed in one go, with no practice. (Gems are given out very generously through out the levels compared to the DUO)

The DUO LOT, took me some tries before I could 1cc it.

[dave4shmups]

So I was playing through Blast Wind today, running a review for it through my mind (for that is what I do now that the shmup collection is nearing completion and thus the true Saturn website is approaching quickly...), and it dawned on me that the main complaint people have with this game is the lack of difficulty. It has very fun gameplay, some of the best music ever to grace a shmup, OK graphics, replay value due to alternate paths, and fairly solid sound. And yet, everytime it gets brought up HERE, it gets shot down for being too easy.


But! wouldn't this mentality also shoot down like, half of the PC-Engine shmup library? I mean, I'm personally yet to play the Star Soldier games, but its my understanding that they're easier than Nexzr, and IMO Nexzr is a million times easier than Blast Wind. And of course, Gate of Thunder/Lords of Thunder are both incredibly easy, but still highly praised.

So, just out of sheer curiosty, what is it that makes Blast Wind "meh" and a ton of other highly celebrated yet incredibly easy shmups so acclaimed? Because if it wasn't for the constant nagging on Blast Wind's difficulty (or rather, lack thereof), I would probably rate it as an A class shmup...

I couldn't agree more JP-Compile is my personal favorite shmup developer, and I've played plenty of their games-GG Aleste, in particular-that are VERY easy-But I could care less, because their games are as addictive as hell. Same with a lot of the PC Engine games you mentioned, and same with some of the Twinbee games, and other cute-em-ups.

So yeah, shmups should NEVER get shot down JUST for being too easy.

[Cthulhu]

Try playing Zanac Neo on Zanac X Zanac on "very hard." You'll stop complaining about the game being too easy.

[BrianC]

Aleste GG is easy, but a blast to play. The special mode makes the game much harder, though. One thing that bothers me is that a lot of review sites seem to review games without talking the difficulty into consideration (not a shmup, but Nintendojo's review of the GB Street Fighter II made me cringe since it showed that the reviewer didn't even try the higher difficulties). While not true for all games, some shmups that are easy on the default are much harder on higher difficulties. Blazing Lazers and Gradius III SNES are great examples of this.

[Nemo]

Classic shooters are appealing for their creativity and modern shooters for their challenge and design. Classic shooters aren't hard and people didn't expect them to be so, they're fun for the experience in of themselves. But once fans and developers grew weary of this era due to the fact that it had been taken to its limits, the dawn of manic shooters arose. A great shooter was now defined by how difficult it was to master it, elaborate scoring systems, and bullet patterns. Shooters needed to evolve, so Blast Wind came out about a decade too late since it couldn't compete with its peers and wasn't even as good as most recent classic-style shooters. Blast Wind is a playable game but it really is a vanilla shooter and one of Ts' weakest offerings. Compile did a much better job with Zanac Neo because they at least tried. While the game is stupid easy, it has a scoring system with some depth which adds replay value.

[Thunder Force]

JP you said something like Blast wind has "Some of the best music ever in a shmup"??

Personally I have always agreed with that, and consider it a "gaiden OST" to the masterpiece of TFV...

[jp]

JP you said something like Blast wind has "Some of the best music ever in a shmup"??

Personally I have always agreed with that, and consider it a "gaiden OST" to the masterpiece of TFV...

The final boss music, IMO, is the greatest thing in all of shmup music. Its just so... catchy... and gets you pumped!!!!


Mind you, I have weird taste, as I feel Border Down's music is amazing, and apparently a lot of people hate it (or maybe I'm misreading the forums, AGAIN).


But yeah, I'm not seeing this whole "vanilla game". Blast Wind doesn't have a wacky scoring method, but then again, why does it need one? The hi-score comes from not dying at all and not using bombs, thats good enough for me. I don't NEED to blow up X number of pieces of a boss and then wait for red tanks and then bomb them, rinse and repeat 7 times, in every game I play.


Edit: Just to clarify myself, I do love Batsugun and its tricky yet fun scoring techniques. I am not dissing Batsugun. I love Batsugun. I repeat, I am not dissing Batsugun, Ilovebatsugun. Thank you.

[ST Dragon]

I agree.
Border Down music is very good & suitable for the sci-fi Mars theme of the game.
Tgame reminds me a lot of Aero Blaster (Acade/Genesis/PCE).
Some levels have similar design.

[llabnip]

Classic shooters aren't hard and people didn't expect them to be so

Oh my! Where to begin... Image Fight? Gradius II? Pretty much any early game with aimed shots!

There are many classic shooters that would peel your eyelids back compared to more modern stuff... and I'm not just talking about cheap shooters - there are many fair classic shooters that are just downright amazingly hard to master. Modern manics can actually be easier... once you identify the patterns. There are enough examples out there that nobody can make a sweeping claim a manic is more difficult than a classic shooter. Sometimes that's true... often times it's not.

Back on topic... I really enjoy Blast Wind... except for the graphics. I normally don't care about color choices or graphics in general, but it just seems so badly pixelated and the color scheme is not easy on my eyes. For some reason it just gets to me in this game. The music is top-notch and it's got some great straight-up gameplay which I enjoy.