Next-gen discussion

[jp]

Maybe redundant, but I couldn't find the old thread and I'm too lazy to use the Search function, so I'll just make a new thread, and one without "Dear such-and-such" in the title:


Xbox 360 - I am... impressed. Today in EB they had a list of games you could pre-order for the launch, and while I'm sure some will get bumped back, that was still a pretty f'ing impressive list. IMO Microsoft has really come through so far and they've done something that I've felt other companies have hidden away from for too long: Actually showed us some games/gameplay. But yes, Gears of War and Oblivion on launch? Hmmm... impressive, a bit close to finals for me though.
I think their lack of a solid direction with backwards compatibility will hurt them though... but at least they're trying, and despite not even having complete hardware at E3, at least they took a chance and showed off some actual gameplay (albeit running less than perfect). Kudos to MS, I shall more than likely buy your new console for Gears of War and Oblivion have peaked my interest. Also, your's was my favorite of this gen anyways.


Revolution - Nintendo almost had it. Almost. "Backwards compatible with the NES/SNES/N64/GC", ROCK ON Nintendo, you got it! And this is the sentiment I've found a lot of people to have. Today, in fact, I was talking to a friend of mine and he was excited about the Revolution being super backwards compatible and all of that. Then I told him the real deal, and he virtually lost all excitement on the spot.

Imagine the dismay of everyone when they learn that Nintendo is pretty much going to screw them over in this concept. Only Nintendo 1st party? Pay-per-game? Rewards for buying other games? I'm sorry, but isn't the latter already what you did on the GC/GBA? And why would anyone pay for an old NES game would they could just use Nesticle or whatever else? I CAN play every old NES game I want on my Dreamcast (or my NES mind you!). In the end, I think Nintendo's backwards thinking on this issue is going to shoot them in the foot, they almost made it, but not quite.

As for the games, my prediction is that the Revolution will be a home console version of the DS. And while the DS is the greatest idea for a handheld gaming system ever, I don't see it working as a home console, even for me, and I love the DS.

PS3 - I have found that, on this forum at least, there is no point in formulating or trying to express an opinion on anything Sony related, and thus, I'm not even going to bother.

[Specineff]

http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/26/comment ... /index.htm

I think the industry is headed for another crash.

And then Sega will re-emerge and take us to the promised Hardcore Gamer's land.

[neorichieb1971]

I forecast a nextgen crash around 2007. It will be a suicide one though. What will likely happen is MS and Sony will launch their machines at a loss and find the mainstreamers are still happy with their PS2/GC and Xbox.

If you look at the PC's that are out there.. How many of the people have 3.2ghz processor with a 512mb graphics card? Probably about 15%.

The rest of the people have slower PC's that do what they want them to do.. And the fact is that PS2/Xbox and GC all have a ways to go before they are challenged 100%. Criterion say PS2 is only at 60% with "Black" and "Burnout 3".

If Xbox 360 comes out at $300 its twice as expensive as the competition.. The games are $60 which is inconsistant with trends of late. The games coming out offer the same gameplay as whats on offer today. Eventually people will settle for whats out, not whats coming out!

[mannerbot]

XBox 360 has Halo 3. 360 and PS3 will also have Madden 200_. This is enough to ensure their success.

[neorichieb1971]

People are sheep then.

I am boycotting all nextgen consoles this time around. Was going to buy an Xbox but just looked at EBgames.com and the list of launch titles is appalling.

Call of Duty 2
The Darkness
Ghost Recon 3
Madden NFL 06
Perfect Dark Zero
Project Gotham 3
Dead or Alive 4
Quake 4
Tony Hawk's A.W.
Tigerwoods 2005


Is anything up there really nextgen?

[PaCrappa]

I too am not buying in this round. Only because I have way too much stuff to play. If I milked all the time out of each and every game I have now and is on my wanted list, it would take me til long after the day I die. And if that's the case, why buy new hardware? Not a big deal, no hate, leave me alone about the subject.



Pa

[Marc]

I dunno, Perfect Dark is one game that really was held back by the technology it ran on. If the sequel is as ambitious as the original, I'd be very excited about this indeed...

[sethsez]

I forecast a nextgen crash around 2007. It will be a suicide one though. What will likely happen is MS and Sony will launch their machines at a loss and find the mainstreamers are still happy with their PS2/GC and Xbox.

Never assume that a new model will fail because people are happy with the old one. If that were the case, we never would have progressed beyond the NES... I mean, most people were perfectly happy with that, right? Hell, plenty of people consider it the best system ever made. So why didn't gaming stop there?

If you look at the PC's that are out there.. How many of the people have 3.2ghz processor with a 512mb graphics card? Probably about 15%.

A top of the line PC costs WELL above any game console, and it does far more. Additionally, no games are made only for one video card... if I want to play Doom 3, it doesn't matter if I have something by nvidia or ATI. But if I want to play Katamari Damacy and I only have an Xbox, I'm SOL. Apples and oranges.

And the fact is that PS2/Xbox and GC all have a ways to go before they are challenged 100%. Criterion say PS2 is only at 60% with "Black" and "Burnout 3".

And when we're at 60% on the 360 and PS3, it'll be much more impressive than Burnout 3 and Black. What takes a lot of trickery and intimate knowledge of the hardware to acheive on the PS2 will probably be dead simple on the PS3, allowing the developers to focus on other things.

If Xbox 360 comes out at $300 its twice as expensive as the competition..

Didn't hurt the PS2. People understand that new tech costs more.

The games are $60 which is inconsistant with trends of late.

Actually it's quite consistant. Why do you think we've been seeing so many "limited edition" games released at this price point lately? Companies are testing the waters.

The games coming out offer the same gameplay as whats on offer today.

Just like from the PSOne to the PS2. Or for that matter, the NES to the SNES. Launch games aren't the best way to judge a system's potential.

Eventually people will settle for whats out, not whats coming out!

When is this going to happen?

[Thunder Force]

Was going to buy an Xbox but just looked at EBgames.com and the list of launch titles is appalling.

Call of Duty 2
The Darkness
Ghost Recon 3
Madden NFL 06
Perfect Dark Zero
Project Gotham 3
Dead or Alive 4
Quake 4
Tony Hawk's A.W.
Tigerwoods 2005

I thought Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion was also supposed to be an X360 launch title.

[neorichieb1971]

Well Sethsez,

I believe the nextgen titles are just prettier titles of whats out already.

The nextgen consoles get support from the consumer when the consumer see's there is no support left for the current generation of consoles. What I see happening is that the devcos might not want to jump ship to nextgen just because a manufacturer is releasing a new spiffy machine.


Lets face it the price of making games is going up. The nextgen consoles have zero userbase right now. If when 360 comes out people say buy on average 100k of Project gotham 3, but then buy 3.5 million copies of some up to date racer on the ps2 (Say Burnout 4) then it is likely other companies will see more potential to work with the larger consumer base at cheaper costs. Look at what happened on Dreamcast for example, more copies of games were still being sold on ps1.. Dreamcast is one such example where it was not exploited anywhere near its potential.


You have to remember than Xbox is only 3 or so years old, this is the first time nextgen is being forced on us so early.

And look at PSP sales, they are average to good.. Technology does not sell games, games sell technology.

[Turrican]

PS3 - I have found that, on this forum at least, there is no point in formulating or trying to express an opinion on anything Sony related, and thus, I'm not even going to bother.

Huh? Come on jp, spit it out. I can't make a sense out of the above phrase.

attempt to a translation no°1 = "I'd like so much to bash Sony, but at the moment their PS3 doesn't offer enough reasons to complain"

attempt to a translation no°2 = "I would like to give my unbiased two cents on the matter, but you're here at shmups are a bunch of stupid Sony fanboys"

Whichever it is, cut it out and talk. Or you'll have to rename the topic:

2/3 Next-gen discussion.

Just like from the PSOne to the PS2. Or for that matter, the NES to the SNES. Launch games aren't the best way to judge a system's potential.

Not every generation gap is troublesome the same way. Nes to Snes was quite an easy task (it was just a matter of bigger, better and such), while it's general consensus that Psone to PS2 resulted in a drastic quality drop, from which PS2 took some years to recover.

Actually, since the Psone software quality was already decreasing during the end of '99 / 2000, and the first year of PS2 was absolutely mediocre, the whole industry had quite a slump in quality. I'm really happy that those days are gone.

[neorichieb1971]

The problem about talking about Sony machines is the hype surrounding them. If we are to believe what was put in front of us at E3, Sony is the king and undisputed champion already.

[jordy]

You have to remember than Xbox is only 3 or so years old, this is the first time nextgen is being forced on us so early.

Hmmm...Saturn > Dreamcast, anyone?

Will Microsoft suffer the same fate as Sega?

Time will tell I guess

[neorichieb1971]

You have to remember than Xbox is only 3 or so years old, this is the first time nextgen is being forced on us so early.

Hmmm...Saturn > Dreamcast, anyone?

Will Microsoft suffer the same fate as Sega?

Time will tell I guess

Probably not because MS has tons of money. The only similarity is that Xbox360 is already believed to be the weaker system. If Sony can pull of that same trick they did with PS2 > Dreamcast then it might happen.

PS3 will play Sony movies via Blu-ray and 100% backwards compatibility. Last time around this meant more to the consumer (DVD playback/PS1 compatibilty) than the actual PS2 games themselves.

360 does have EA support though, which seems to keep people interested. It seems EA are paramount to any machines success.

[Marc]

I dunno, I think that Microsoft are in a really strong position this time around. And they seem to have been going the right way about enticing developers and titles that should make the machine a more attractive proposition in the East.

For me, I think the Xbox 360 looks great, but this time I think I'm more likely to wait a year and pick one up when the price has stabalised and the launch games are all available pre-owned at a quarter of their original price tag.
Revolution sounds nice, but I really lost faith in Nintendo this time round. This time, the quality of their own titles wasn't enough to convince me to put up with the lack of third-party support.

PS3... doesn't really appeal to me. Don't know why, I'm not a rampant Sony hater. Just that of the three current machines, the PS2 gathers most dust. Definitely won't be buying all three again though, because there are simply too many games and not enough time to do them all justice.

[FatCobra]

I bet you guys are expecting me to start bashing the next-gen at this point.

Well, I'm not. Sorry guys.

That being said, I might not be buying a next-gen system either. I've got better things to spend my money on (I'm buying my Dad's 96 Ford Explorer) than some shiny new console. After all, I do have an SNES collection to rebuild and Saturn shmups to acquire.

I don't know if there will be a crash in 2007, when people realize they're just playing the same drivel, only with prettier graphics. Maybe people will be so fed up that maybe we'll have another golden age of videogames (i.e. Shmups become popular again).

For now, at least for me, the next-gen is a wait-and-see. I mean, I just got my PS2 a few months back!

[SheSaidDutch]

I don't know if there will be a crash in 2007, when people realize they're just playing the same drivel, only with prettier graphics. Maybe people will be so fed up that maybe we'll have another golden age of videogames (i.e. Shmups become popular again).

Umm.....The same Drivel?

I dont know about that!

A mainstreamer could say exactly the same thing e.g

NES-SNES same games,same genre's= The same drivel

[FatCobra]

I don't know if there will be a crash in 2007, when people realize they're just playing the same drivel, only with prettier graphics. Maybe people will be so fed up that maybe we'll have another golden age of videogames (i.e. Shmups become popular again).

Umm.....The same Drivel?

I dont know about that!

A mainstreamer could say exactly the same thing e.g

NES-SNES same games,same genre's= The same drivel

Well, I guess you're right there. I only said that because I had wishful thinking. Not all mainstream games are drivel...I guess the real problem is that with traditional console gameplay, everything's pretty much been done already. Well, the core gameplay anyway.

I am trying to restrain myself from bashing the next-gen (you don't see me saying OMG!!! tEh NeXt-gen is da Sux0rs!!!) but I guess I let something slip. Ooooops...

True that some SNES games were just prettier NES games but some SNES games would not have been possible on the NES (namely the Mode 7 stuff).

[SheSaidDutch]

Well, I guess you're right there. I only said that because I had wishful thinking. Not all mainstream games are drivel...I guess the real problem is that with traditional console gameplay, everything's pretty much been done already. Well, the core gameplay anyway.

I am trying to restrain myself from bashing the next-gen (you don't see me saying OMG!!! tEh NeXt-gen is da Sux0rs!!!) but I guess I let something slip. Ooooops...

True that some SNES games were just prettier NES games but some SNES games would not have been possible on the NES (namely the Mode 7 stuff).

I think there will be ways to chance the core gameplay of either traditional 2D games and 3D games (variation on a theme etc)

Checkout Super Spy Hunter and Crisis Force for some mode 7ish rotation wizardary

[BulletMagnet]

Just as a quick side point, it seems that a lot of people aren't particularly interested in the PS3 at this point...I haven't kept up very much with the next-gen stuff (about all I remember is that awful boomerang controller), so I can't say a heck of a lot, but what I will say is that for the current generation of consoles, the PS2 is in a league of its own in terms of shmup releases, compared to the other two. If this trend continues with the PS3, it could be a deciding factor for at least some people here...I'm just surprised no one's mentioned that yet (unless I missed it).

[FatCobra]

If Sony can fix the boomerang controller, and if they aren't so picky about releasing shmups, maybe the PS3 will interest me.

I'm not sure I should like the CD-eater (like a car's stereo) design or not.

[BulletMagnet]

Are they "picky" now? Maybe in terms of what they localize, but they've got a lot more shmups released than the others for this generation...and on top of that very few of the GC's shmups are exclusives (I don't think the XB has any exclusives at all).

[FatCobra]

I'm talking about US releases here. I know there's plenty of PS2 shmups in Japan.

Not all of us can afford to import every system made on Earth. And I am sure as hell not going to mod my PSTwo. Damn thing already looks like I could easily break it.

[BulletMagnet]

Damn thing already looks like I could easily break it.

You probably could.

But as far as localizations go, I wouldn't expect very much from any of the 3 companies on the shmup front...then again, remembering some of the slipshod localizations we've gotten in the past, that might not be all bad news. Europe's been getting some action lately on the PS2, though, so who knows.

[Bishamon]

I'd buy an XBox 360 for PGR3 alone.

I'll definitely pick up a 360 and a PS3, though the Revolution is looking less appealing as more inforamtion is revealed.

[captain ahar]

i will probably buy into the next-gen. Xbox 360 almost surely, ps3 maybe, revolution umm...

while this makes absolutely no sense given my previous statement, i am rather disappointed with the future of the industry. i like that the revolution is around 8 times more powerful than the gamecube, i think that was a good move. when sony (hah!) and microsoft decided to really push the graphic boundaries for next gen the prices and costs are going to skyrocket ($299 for the 360 and a very likely $60 per game).

while i did pay more for Harmful Park then i will likely pay for Quake 4, thats a $20 difference devoted to better replay value, an original concept, and collectibility. sucks. i'm rambling.

[SheSaidDutch]

Well I'm going to wait untill all 3 are released and wait an additional year, for/If there's titles I'll be interested in.

but in the mean time I'm selling afew things to purchase a PSTwo to play

Hyper Street Fighter 2
Gradius 3&4
Gradius 5
KOF 02/03
Metal Slug

[raiden]

the PS2´s shmup library is the only factor that makes the system interesting to me, I don´t care about anything else. Considering how long that took, however, I´m just VERY patient with Next-Gen consoles. Whether the industry might crash or just the consoles get cheaper and gain more shmups, I´ll just wait for whatever happens.
Revolution intrigued me quite a bit, but it´s the scope that matters here. I don´t buy a system to play any more of the Mario clones I´m already fed up with. But if I can have Flying Shark (NES), R-Type III (SNES), Bangaioh (N64) and Ikaruga (GC) all on one system, I´m sold.
Regarding the Project Gotham series, I played every part of it for months with a dedication rivalled by no other racing game. But I don´t know whether PGR3 will be overwhelming enough to make me buy an Xbox 360. I didn´t buy an Xbox for PGR1 either, but waited until PGR2 with all new courses and an incredible online mode I could only dream about while playing MSR on DC.

[Specineff]

I agree with most people above. Joe Consumer will probably wait because he's happy with is PS2 and Xbox, unless they are forced to upgrade. Rather than a war or a crash, we might see the market come to a stall. The next console war is going to be a very lukewarm one, IMHO.

[sethsez]

Just a question to everyone complaining about the new systems being nothing more than the same stuff with prettier graphics:

Why do you get excited about new Cave games? Why did you buy Border Down, or Shikigami no Shiro 2, or Gradius V? Isn't "the same stuff with new graphics" exactly the kind of thing this forum goes apeshit over every time a new shmup is released? Has it ever occured to you that a FPS fan might feel the same way about the idea of Halo 3 or Perfect Dark Zero as people here felt at the announcement of R-Type Final or ESPGaluda?