7th Dragon for the DS - Uber-traditional RPG ahoy

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Cthulhu
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7th Dragon for the DS - Uber-traditional RPG ahoy

Post by Cthulhu »

Although I originally passed on it, one of my friends who generally has good taste in games recommended that I pick up 7th Dragon for the DS. Apparently the game has done fairly well sales-wise, so it took a bit for NCS to get restock on it, but I finally laid my grubby little hands on it today and played it for ~2 hours.

I must say, I'm glad I have it and I'm really enjoying it, but this is exactly the sort of game that the phrase "old school" was created to describe. You slap together a party of four adventurers (7 classes to pick from, take 4 characters of your choice), divvy up their skill points (game is directed by the same guy as Etrian Odyssey, so the skills work similarly), and then hit the road a questin'.

The game looks fairly nice - not amazing sprite work, but good. Some things look better than others, naturally. Monsters so far are not animated, but you do see little animations of your characters attacking. Battles are turn-based. Difficulty is medium-high - both you and your foes do a lot of damage. I don't know how you'd get along without a healer (but the game will let you go without one if you really want).

Storyline - the world is being persecuted by a bunch of dragons. Kill them. But first, do a bunch of menial quests to get stronger. :lol:

Music by Yuzo Koshiro. Nuff said. :D

Game is linear so far but I've been told it opens up later on. Whole thing is very "quest focused" - you get quests from the guild and do them. Lots of optional quests later on, but to be strong enough to do the "missions" (storyline advancing quests) you need to do a lot of them.

I'd highly recommend this game to RPG fans. People who grew up on 8 & 16 bit RPGs will dig it. I really doubt it will change anyone's mind if they're not a fan of the genre already. Other random side note - one of the producers of pre-online Phantasy Star and Skies of Arcadia is a higher-up on this game as well (apparently it's her first RPG project since Skies). No idea if an English version is going to be released or not; as with all RPGs, I would not recommend importing it unless your Japanese is at least decent (preferably good).
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Post by Pixel_Outlaw »

Sounds a bit like Dragon Warrior 3?
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Post by UnscathedFlyingObject »

What is it with all these 1rst person dungeon crawlers on portables nowadays? They're like a dime a dozen. Starting to lose their novelty.
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Post by Cthulhu »

Pixel_Outlaw wrote:Sounds a bit like Dragon Warrior 3?
In a way yes (the customizable party / genero-heroes part), in a way no (the skill system is a lot more advanced, and the presence of a "quest guild" changes the dynamics a lot). Possibly more yes than no, I'm only a few hours in.
UnscathedFlyingObject wrote:What is it with all these 1rst person dungeon crawlers on portables nowadays? They're like a dime a dozen. Starting to lose their novelty.
This game isn't first person, it's traditional birds-eye-view. The battles are done pseudo-1st person a la Dragon Quest, but nothing else is.

Also, portables make development of niche/niche-ish games like this much more affordable. That's my guess as to why there are lots there but not so much on the regular consoles.
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Re: 7th Dragon for the DS - Uber-traditional RPG ahoy

Post by Specineff »

Cthulhu wrote: Other random side note - one of the producers of pre-online Phantasy Star and Skies of Arcadia is a higher-up on this game as well (apparently it's her first RPG project since Skies).
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Post by Ganelon »

Everything about the game is interesting...except the awful chibi art style.
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Post by robthebanks »

Playing through Etrian Odyssey II right now, and loving it... Will definitely have to check this one out. You seem to have a good eye for the grimy RPGs Cthulu!

Edit: Crap, just realized its in Japanese. I hope a port or a translation project will happen...
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Post by Cthulhu »

Ganelon wrote:Everything about the game is interesting...except the awful chibi art style.
The characters are usually drawn chibi, the monsters are regular looking in battle (some of the bosses look pretty damn neat). The overworld maps are chibi as always.
robthebanks wrote:Playing through Etrian Odyssey II right now, and loving it... Will definitely have to check this one out. You seem to have a good eye for the grimy RPGs Cthulu!

Edit: Crap, just realized its in Japanese. I hope a port or a translation project will happen...
Why thank you. :wink:

The game is still really new, so it's hard to say if it'll get released here or not. It's done well in JapanLand (my understanding is it did better than expected), but it wasn't a smash hit. Wasn't designed to be, really. Since this game doesn't really try to show off flashy graphics, my guess is that Sega will hold off on this until Sands of Destruction is released in early 2010 and see how that does before deciding if they want to port 7th Dragon or not.


And a small update about the difficulty - if you pick a good party combination and pump points into the right skills, the game gets way easier. If you don't, it stays pretty hard. I got lucky and picked pretty much the perfect path with my mage (and acceptable paths with the others) and she can pretty much annihilate anything that gets in my way. The amount of damage the enemies dole out is still pretty high though, so a few missteps still means taking some hefty hits.
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Post by CMoon »

With luck we'll see an english release. The youtube gameplay videos look awesome.
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Post by robthebanks »

Either that, or hopefully one of the guys over at gbatemp will do us the favour of translating it.
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Post by CMoon »

Actually looking at everyone involved (it IS an all-star cast) AND that Sega is behind it, I'd be very very surprised if it wasn't brought over--unless of course the game actually sucks.

RPG + DS = MONEY
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Post by Cthulhu »

CMoon wrote:Actually looking at everyone involved (it IS an all-star cast) AND that Sega is behind it, I'd be very very surprised if it wasn't brought over--unless of course the game actually sucks.

RPG + DS = MONEY
I'd guess the game would get a very similar reception to Mysterious Dungeon (which, incidentally, was also published by Sega here IIRC). Would get mixed scores critically and mixed sales as well, but the people who really get into it would love it. It's not a mass-market game at all.

It's totally awesome if this sort of game is your thing though. :D
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Post by Aleanil »

I think you're right, 7th Dragon would get a reception much like Shiren got, which is sad; Shiren is a great game! 7th Dragon is more of the same, and with the Etrian Odyssey influence on it, I'm ecstatic.

But Sega... yeah... I wouldn't go holding my breath for a release here. The way that Shiren flopped probably makes them a bit more shy about it. Sad :(
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Post by UnscathedFlyingObject »

No surprise considering the Mega Man 1 job they did on the box art.
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Post by kozo »

UnscathedFlyingObject wrote:No surprise considering the Mega Man 1 job they did on the box art.
This. I hate to be a wiener, but when you design things on a daily schedule, you become irritated by box art like Shiren's US work...especially when it had such a pretty JP box they didn't even need to touch.
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Post by robthebanks »

Sorry to be o.t., but has anyone played Deep Labyrinth or Dungeon Explorer? Are they any good?
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Post by Cthulhu »

robthebanks wrote:Sorry to be o.t., but has anyone played Deep Labyrinth or Dungeon Explorer? Are they any good?
If you're talking about the new Dungeon Explorers for the PSP & DS, I haven't played them but I've heard nothing but bad things about them. Hudson hasn't made much that's any good in the last few years either, so I'd probably steer clear. Unlike Mysterious Dungeon / Shiren and Etrian Odyssey, which quickly got hardcore fans onboard, I haven't heard from anyone who got these and really enjoyed them.

The old ones on the Virtual Console are fun though. :lol:
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Post by ZOM »

robthebanks wrote:Sorry to be o.t., but has anyone played Deep Labyrinth or Dungeon Explorer? Are they any good?
I have Dungeon Explorer for the DS and damn how the D-pad kills this game;
The camera is always 45 degrees tilted(like an isometric view), so you're naturally pressing the diagonals the whole time... I think we all know how good the diagonals on the DS work.

As for the game itself, well, the level-design is -for the most part- boring, the texturing is bland and the game just isn't much fun to play.

That being said, since I'm a sucker for Japanese dungeon-crawlers, I enjoyed it quite a bit when it was still new but IIRC I never finished it.

Long story short: if you see it lying around somewhere for 5-10 bucks, it's worth it I guess...
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Post by CMoon »

Aleanil wrote:I think you're right, 7th Dragon would get a reception much like Shiren got, which is sad; Shiren is a great game! 7th Dragon is more of the same, and with the Etrian Odyssey influence on it, I'm ecstatic.

But Sega... yeah... I wouldn't go holding my breath for a release here. The way that Shiren flopped probably makes them a bit more shy about it. Sad :(
Is flopped really the right word when all you are paying for is a localization (IE translation)???

I mean, I would love to see these games be more successful (don't ask me why I don't own Shiren yet), but given that they aren't being marketed to the US in the first place, even minor DS sales might still equal pretty significant cash.

Also, perhaps someone at Sega needs to go take a class from Atlus on how to make money from titles like this. I mean, good lord, Atlus is putting out a clone of the FIRST Wizardy (IE 1978???) and including a free soundtrack. Clearly Atlus gets it--I'm sure Sega can also figure it out.

Edit: Regarding other DS rpgs (and I don't want this to mutate into our other DS RPG thread), please give some attention to the Dragon Quest games if you haven't. About 30 hours into DQ5 and it is truly a great game! I find myself alternating between these games and the Etrian Odyssey games.
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Post by MR_Soren »

Glad to hear all the positive talk about 7th Dragon. I've been interested in this since the day it was announced.

Regarding SEGA, I think they could go either way on localizing the game. I expect it to get a us release, but I won't be surprised if it's not from SEGA when it comes over.
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Post by Vincere »

Question : how can you guys still play RPGs while being arcade aficionados? I simply can't. I can't spend hours and hours in a storyline game anymore. I've tried to play Star Ocean on PSP or Dragon Quest IV on DS but left them after a few hours.

God, RPGs are so boring.
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Post by Cthulhu »

Random update: holy crap this game is long. I'm nearing 20 hours in and I think I'm less than 1/3 done. :shock: I've been doing every quest (or at least, pretty much every quest) that has come up though, so that's been keeping me busy.

I've heard that the game is in the 40-60 range before you do the bonus stuff. I'm thinking it will be on the high end of that for me, but we shall see.

Incidentally, there's a meter on the map that shows how many of the dragons in the world you've killed (it starts at 666... ooh, scary :lol: ) and I'm down to about 530.
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Post by MR_Soren »

Vincere wrote:Question : how can you guys still play RPGs while being arcade aficionados? I simply can't. I can't spend hours and hours in a storyline game anymore. I've tried to play Star Ocean on PSP or Dragon Quest IV on DS but left them after a few hours.

God, RPGs are so boring.
Play an RPG that's focused on gameplay instead of story. I can't play those games you mentioned either, but I can enjoy strategy RPGs like Fire Emblem, or something traditional like Nocturne which has the best turn-based combat system ever made.
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Post by CMoon »

Vincere wrote:Question : how can you guys still play RPGs while being arcade aficionados? I simply can't. I can't spend hours and hours in a storyline game anymore. I've tried to play Star Ocean on PSP or Dragon Quest IV on DS but left them after a few hours.

God, RPGs are so boring.
It really may just not be your thing. For a lot of people there is a nostalgia factor; or at least for whatever reason, that sort of exercise in repetition pleases people. Thank god I don't have to explain why I enjoy them, because I probably can't. That said, I enjoy them immensely, but I also get something completely different out of them than the an 'arcade' experience.

I also cut my teeth on the original wizardry in the late 70's, if that makes any difference.
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Post by CMoon »

MR_Soren wrote: Play an RPG that's focused on gameplay instead of story. I can't play those games you mentioned either, but I can enjoy strategy RPGs like Fire Emblem, or something traditional like Nocturne which has the best turn-based combat system ever made.
It's funny you mention that because I'm really tired of SRPGs. I love the DQ games, but also Nocturne. Actually I think DQ and SMT are the two franchises I am really following. What's your take on Etrian Odyssey then? Plenty of game play mechanics but also pure dungeon crawl with random fights (seems most people hate this.)
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Post by Cthulhu »

Random encounters have never bothered me all that much (provided that the encounter rate isn't absurdly high - 7th Dragon is a little higher than I'd like, but not one that drives me away). JRPG storylines still entertain me even though most of them are cleanly cut from the same mold, even today.

Guess it's just a genre that I'm meant to enjoy.
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Re: 7th Dragon for the DS - Uber-traditional RPG ahoy

Post by handsome_rakshas »

Cthulhu wrote:
Music by Yuzo Koshiro.
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Post by GaijinPunch »

Play an RPG that's focused on gameplay instead of story. I can't play those games you mentioned either, .
Senjoy no Valkyria is the best thing to hit the SLG genre.... ever, I would say. Better than any RPG that's come out in years as well. Light story, heavy game.
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Post by Cthulhu »

If the Famitsu numbers available on net forums are reliable, then this game sold ~110,000 copies total during it's stay in the top 20 (which was around 4 weeks). That's pretty good for a hardcore-oriented game like this. Nevertheless, I'll stick with my earlier prediction that Sega will see how Sands of Destruction does before they consider releasing this one overseas...

In other news, I'm over 30 hours in and I think I'm just under halfway done. Good god there's a lot to do in this game. The storyline is still "DRAGONS BAD GO KILL DRAGONS," but there's a lot of charm in the world and the characters. Definitely enjoying this game a lot still, not losing steam as I progress.
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Post by robthebanks »

PLZ TRANLATE

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