As far as I am aware, there is a 63mm and 42mm microswitch version. Which do you think would be better for shooters? Also is it better to get the universal or 4/8 way only?
Thanks!
suzo Series 500 stick
I can't find any info on the microswitches you mention: Are you referring to the lever/ actuator lengths on the switches themselves?
All things being equal: A longer lever/ actuator will need a lighter activation force... It's hard to say without understanding the whole joystick mechanism to determine what would be "better", aside from personal preference...
Any pics/ further info?
All things being equal: A longer lever/ actuator will need a lighter activation force... It's hard to say without understanding the whole joystick mechanism to determine what would be "better", aside from personal preference...
Any pics/ further info?
"All that matters really is taste. He might like the game, he might not." - Anonymous
I hadn't actually seen anything but the 'standard' version of the stick, which I'd guess is the larger micro switches.
They're awesome. The version I have is like this but with red gates:
http://ultimarc.com/images/eurostik.jpg
The human race has not created a more perfect joystick, EXCEPT ... for the older model which used a rubber bearing instead of the spring method, and had slightly nicer movement.
They're awesome. The version I have is like this but with red gates:
http://ultimarc.com/images/eurostik.jpg
The human race has not created a more perfect joystick, EXCEPT ... for the older model which used a rubber bearing instead of the spring method, and had slightly nicer movement.
System11's random blog, with things - and stuff!
http://blog.system11.org
http://blog.system11.org
My Suzo stick has the left microswitch too close to the stick so that sometimes it doesn't return to centre from left, and more often there's a delay in returning from the left. I've tried opening the plate and holding the left switch away from the stick when reassembling but it doesn't help much. But for that flaw it would be great.
What are the makes of the microswitches in these Suzos?
I loved these sticks in the Arcades back in the 80's... they were definitely my favourites... currently I'm tweaking a custom stick which I think is even better!... The microswitches play a very prominent role...
I loved these sticks in the Arcades back in the 80's... they were definitely my favourites... currently I'm tweaking a custom stick which I think is even better!... The microswitches play a very prominent role...
"All that matters really is taste. He might like the game, he might not." - Anonymous
It varies, the older ones all have Cherry ones in my experience, not sure what the new one came with.
System11's random blog, with things - and stuff!
http://blog.system11.org
http://blog.system11.org
Re: 63mm and 42mm microswitches
I think I've found some info; seems like a typo in the OP. It sounds like it should be 6.3mm and 4.8mm, and refers to the electrical terminal of the microswitches for quick disconnects, soldering etc.; so it wouldn't affect the physical characteristics of the joystick. It's in the PDF brochure, page 162:
http://www.suzo.com/cataloguefiles/20.pdf
... Also looks like they still use Cherry microswitches. I was under the impression these Suzos used levered/ actuated microswitches; but these new ones don't, according to the replacement pics on page 162?
@ Mikey: Maybe replacing the microswitch might help?
I think I've found some info; seems like a typo in the OP. It sounds like it should be 6.3mm and 4.8mm, and refers to the electrical terminal of the microswitches for quick disconnects, soldering etc.; so it wouldn't affect the physical characteristics of the joystick. It's in the PDF brochure, page 162:
http://www.suzo.com/cataloguefiles/20.pdf
... Also looks like they still use Cherry microswitches. I was under the impression these Suzos used levered/ actuated microswitches; but these new ones don't, according to the replacement pics on page 162?
@ Mikey: Maybe replacing the microswitch might help?
"All that matters really is taste. He might like the game, he might not." - Anonymous
*BUMP*
I've found some of my unanswered questions in this thread, after acquiring, and messin' with some new and old Suzos; remembered this thread, so here's an FYI, IME:
Microswitches:
- Cherry D44 series
- Cherry D42 series
- Cherry D41 series
- Saia XG series
All these can be found in both Suzos; they significantly affect the feel of them. D41/ D42 work amazingly well with the older Suzos (with rubber centering)... I'd say the Saia XGs are the worst...
- Older Suzos have longer shafts below the control panel (need more clearance, especially if you mount the 'pivot' below the CP and add a dust cover above it). You can easily mod them with Happ compatible shafts (and I presume iL etc. that have a 10mm diameter). The Happ Supers shaft is a nice compromise between bat-tops and ball-tops... If you do this mod, you'll need to change actuators, because the stock shaft in older Suzos taper at the lower end (unlike newer Suzos)...
- Older Suzos have different gates; they come with square gates and also a 'bloated'/ bulging square gate (i.e. square with curving sides; makes circular motions smoother, but still retaining easy to find corners)...
- Older Suzos have different actuators; round instead of square...
- Older Suzos uses a rubber 'ring' for centering; definitely nicer than the spring centering found in the newer models... But this may vary depending on its condition... Also, a Suzo Inductive feels much nicer in this chassis!
Basically some of the main differences covered. After revisiting these sticks from a long break, I didn't like the standard handles anymore; much prefered a typical bat-top or a ball-top over them...Which brings me onto these:
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/inde ... cts_id=228
Anyone try any of these? In a Suzo or otherwise? They have various textured versions; are these durable? Thanks in advance...
I've found some of my unanswered questions in this thread, after acquiring, and messin' with some new and old Suzos; remembered this thread, so here's an FYI, IME:
Microswitches:
- Cherry D44 series
- Cherry D42 series
- Cherry D41 series
- Saia XG series
All these can be found in both Suzos; they significantly affect the feel of them. D41/ D42 work amazingly well with the older Suzos (with rubber centering)... I'd say the Saia XGs are the worst...
- Older Suzos have longer shafts below the control panel (need more clearance, especially if you mount the 'pivot' below the CP and add a dust cover above it). You can easily mod them with Happ compatible shafts (and I presume iL etc. that have a 10mm diameter). The Happ Supers shaft is a nice compromise between bat-tops and ball-tops... If you do this mod, you'll need to change actuators, because the stock shaft in older Suzos taper at the lower end (unlike newer Suzos)...
- Older Suzos have different gates; they come with square gates and also a 'bloated'/ bulging square gate (i.e. square with curving sides; makes circular motions smoother, but still retaining easy to find corners)...
- Older Suzos have different actuators; round instead of square...
- Older Suzos uses a rubber 'ring' for centering; definitely nicer than the spring centering found in the newer models... But this may vary depending on its condition... Also, a Suzo Inductive feels much nicer in this chassis!
Basically some of the main differences covered. After revisiting these sticks from a long break, I didn't like the standard handles anymore; much prefered a typical bat-top or a ball-top over them...Which brings me onto these:
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/inde ... cts_id=228
Anyone try any of these? In a Suzo or otherwise? They have various textured versions; are these durable? Thanks in advance...
"All that matters really is taste. He might like the game, he might not." - Anonymous
By the way, a few weeks ago I tried something: removing the octogonal restrictor. Now it moves differently. I couldn't say if its better or not for shoot'em ups (it's perfect anyway), but in fighting games it has improved because you can feel the circle and not it doesn't hit every side of the restrictor. As regard the microswitches, just try different modes and see which feels better. Once I also had the problem of the stick not returning to center, and then I replaced the switches with another brand which has no poblems at all. Also, be aware when you install the plate that pushes the switches in position, because you can place the switches 1 mm closer or futher away from the actuator. In this kind of stick witch such short engagement, that matters. In my stick I have this stick mounted in wood, using a homemade dustwasher. I have made another stick with the same procedure, but using different wood thickness and glasspack. I find the total height of the stick more confortable that way. You can see them here:
http://www.alvarezeninternet.com/battlebox/
http://www.alvarezeninternet.com/Ikarug ... index.html
http://www.alvarezeninternet.com/battlebox/
http://www.alvarezeninternet.com/Ikarug ... index.html
@Mikey:
The Omni-Stick Prodigy is basically a Suzo mounted on a metal sub-panel; the picture above should give you an idea of the balltops mounted above a metal panel...
I picked up a "standard" version of the balltop shaft, which needed extra notches for the e-clips, near the top of the shaft (so that I was happy with the mounted height). Easy to do with a power tool or a simple hacksaw...
There is also an "Omni-Stick Prodigy" version of the balltops that might have more suitable/ favourable notches for the e-clips; and could even be the version pictured above (could check with their customer support)...
@Elaphe:
Some nice work there. As a matter of curiosity, what brand/model of microswitches did you finally settle with?
"All that matters really is taste. He might like the game, he might not." - Anonymous
After pissin' about with the height, here it is, temporarily mounted below a wooden CP:
... Looks pretty much like a Seimitsu LS-32.
Some random thoughts:
- The standard shaft doesn't come with a dust cover, but a 10mm one, like the one for the LS-32, will fit.
- You'll need a lot of clearance below the CP; you can always trim the length.
- The balltops seem permanently attached to the shaft.
- Adding notches (for the e-clips) and adjusting the shaft length, relative to the pivot point affects: Throw, deadzone, stiffness, centering etc.
- Adding spacers and adjusting shaft length relative to the surface of the CP, mainly affects grip and controllability.
- Adding notches: You'll have to compenstae for the compression of the springs. Use the stock shaft on the Suzos for measuring. I used the older Suzo, with the rubber centering, and its pivot differs from the newer Suzos. The rubber doesn't vertically pull down like a spring; and it doesn't use a cylinder for a pivot, but instead, uses a smooth undersided dome/hat. And this can be lubricated, if mounted below the CP.
- Leaving excess shaft lenght below the actuator affects centering, stiffness etc.
As mentioned earlier, not sure how the Omni-Stick Prodigy version of the shaft differs from the Standard version, but if you're prepared for some modding/ experimentation, these stainless steel shafts are really nice!
... Looks pretty much like a Seimitsu LS-32.
Some random thoughts:
- The standard shaft doesn't come with a dust cover, but a 10mm one, like the one for the LS-32, will fit.
- You'll need a lot of clearance below the CP; you can always trim the length.
- The balltops seem permanently attached to the shaft.
- Adding notches (for the e-clips) and adjusting the shaft length, relative to the pivot point affects: Throw, deadzone, stiffness, centering etc.
- Adding spacers and adjusting shaft length relative to the surface of the CP, mainly affects grip and controllability.
- Adding notches: You'll have to compenstae for the compression of the springs. Use the stock shaft on the Suzos for measuring. I used the older Suzo, with the rubber centering, and its pivot differs from the newer Suzos. The rubber doesn't vertically pull down like a spring; and it doesn't use a cylinder for a pivot, but instead, uses a smooth undersided dome/hat. And this can be lubricated, if mounted below the CP.
- Leaving excess shaft lenght below the actuator affects centering, stiffness etc.
As mentioned earlier, not sure how the Omni-Stick Prodigy version of the shaft differs from the Standard version, but if you're prepared for some modding/ experimentation, these stainless steel shafts are really nice!
"All that matters really is taste. He might like the game, he might not." - Anonymous
^^ Which one? The modded one or the Suzo 500?
These sticks have some of the shortest, stock throws; but your "ideal" stick? Only you'd know...
There are some subtle dynamics that can be reproduced by modding pretty much any stick, but some of these dynamics are inherent to certain stick designs; because of some fundamental design choices...
Unless you have the know how to reproduce these dynamics or explain exactly what you're looking for, then it's difficult to say this is your "ideal" stick. Stating that you want an ultra-short throw is a good start, but not really enougth. Usually this means you want an ultra-fast, return-to-neutral (not equal to return-to-centre); but the shortest distance doesn't necessarily mean the fastest one you can accurately control...
E.g The LS-32 doesn't have the shortest throw, nor engage distance (deadzone); but it has some subtle dynamics because of how the deadzone area is designed to work with long-levered microswitches...
These sticks have some of the shortest, stock throws; but your "ideal" stick? Only you'd know...
There are some subtle dynamics that can be reproduced by modding pretty much any stick, but some of these dynamics are inherent to certain stick designs; because of some fundamental design choices...
Unless you have the know how to reproduce these dynamics or explain exactly what you're looking for, then it's difficult to say this is your "ideal" stick. Stating that you want an ultra-short throw is a good start, but not really enougth. Usually this means you want an ultra-fast, return-to-neutral (not equal to return-to-centre); but the shortest distance doesn't necessarily mean the fastest one you can accurately control...
E.g The LS-32 doesn't have the shortest throw, nor engage distance (deadzone); but it has some subtle dynamics because of how the deadzone area is designed to work with long-levered microswitches...
"All that matters really is taste. He might like the game, he might not." - Anonymous