Ketsui X and Daioujou Black Label X - Ports for Xbox 360

dmauro · Post by **dmauro** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:36 pm

I was hoping it might be worthwhile to eventually get a j360 in my cabs, but I guess not.

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:06 pm

actually ive been using the SF pad for the whole duration of time i spent on DDP DOJEX. I finally got to 1000/1000 today and the controller works like a dream on DDP DOJ. I put in about 32 hours into DDP DOJEX and i didnt even get to have a chance to use a stick on it. The SF Gamepad worked that well.

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:29 pm

I guess I'm pretty easy to please with ports. Yeah, the loading and menus are crap, and there are a lot of bad design decisions, but the core real game modes work well enough that I can't really complain too much. I even think X mode is a fun little diversion (at least a few plays) and I'm fine with it as a bonus that is removed from the real experience. I can't wait for the Ketsui port personally, as I'll finally get to play it without throwing down nearly a grand for the pleasure.

I half agree that a bad port can turn someone off to a game (I'll never really seek out GigaWing Generations for example) but this port is no where near that bad. It could certainly be better, no doubt, but that doesn't make it a waste of time to pick up if you have no other access to Black Label DOJ.

Fake scanlines? 240p? A shmup jedi craves not these things. They're nice, but certainly not necessary and it's weird to see so much outrage at their exclusion.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:00 pm

8 1/2 wrote:Fake scanlines? 240p? A shmup jedi craves not these things.

Someone please sig that.

antron · Post by **antron** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:19 pm

8 1/2 wrote: Fake scanlines? 240p? A shmup jedi craves not these things. They're nice, but certainly not necessary and it's weird to see so much outrage at their exclusion.

are you playing on a cab or your tv? I bet I can guess which.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:41 pm

What, people play X360 games on a cab?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:51 pm

orange wrote:gee i sure wish these weren't region locked suck a dick game industry

I like this more

antron · Post by **antron** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:51 pm

moozooh wrote:What, people play X360 games on a cab?

if you hack some controllers, yes. I can recommend VGA for high res games, like Raiden IV.

As for low res via SCART, I wouldn't want to be too close to the screen. I get flicker headache.

tommyb · Post by **tommyb** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:51 pm

moozooh wrote:What, people play X360 games on a cab?

Sounds like a total waste of a cab to me.

EDIT:

GaijinPunch wrote:
orange wrote:gee i sure wish these weren't region locked suck a dick game industry
I like this more

HAHA

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:05 pm

antron wrote:
8 1/2 wrote: Fake scanlines? 240p? A shmup jedi craves not these things. They're nice, but certainly not necessary and it's weird to see so much outrage at their exclusion.
are you playing on a cab or your tv? I bet I can guess which.

I'm playing it on cabs and I'm not jumping up and down and screaming like a girl because the port doesn't have scanlines.

Likely because I'm too busy playing the game for all that stupidity

antron · Post by **antron** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:10 pm

zakk wrote:
antron wrote:
8 1/2 wrote: Fake scanlines? 240p? A shmup jedi craves not these things. They're nice, but certainly not necessary and it's weird to see so much outrage at their exclusion.
are you playing on a cab or your tv? I bet I can guess which.
I'm playing it on cabs and I'm not jumping up and down and screaming

VGA or SCART?

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:14 pm

Would you be happy with a bluray that only displayed 480p on your 720p/1080p compatible HDTV? I wouldn't be happy, but maybe some people wouldn't care.

If it can be displayed in a way truer to its original arcade form and the developer chooses not to go through the (very minimal) effort to give that option to those who appreciate it, then people should complain. Otherwise this shit will never change. I thought that after the RFA port w/ its great scanline options (not to mention the great Sega Ages ports that also include this) other companies porting low res games would wise up, but sadly we haven't been so fortunate.

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:32 pm

Most of those visual options in RFA were added via a patch, though.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:33 pm

Yes, but the patch came out long before these current ports. Hence 5pb should have known better.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:51 pm

rfaces' pixel perfect mode looks better with scanlines off on a crt, pretty much only worth it if you're playing on an hdtv and really, really want scanlines

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:02 am

I dunno, I think those fake scanlines in RFA look pretty ass. It's very obvious that the ship is moving behind them, which just makes it look like a thin gray cage has been placed over the screen. I don't think it tricks the eye at all.

I'm not saying this is a well-made package, because it's not. It has tons of little seemingly lazy errors that ideally should have been fixed. But it lets me play the Black Label version of one of my all-time favorite games. Now if the game itself was a chuggy/choppy mess then I'd be all over this with a pitchfork and a torch. Menus and wishlist options are just icing.

Again, maybe I'm easier to please than most of you shmup-o's (where's Twitchdoctor when I need him?), but I grew up with NES ports of 1943 and such, so getting something that plays nearly exactly the same as the arcade version, albeit a bit blurrier perhaps, is just a gift in and of itself. This could very easily just NOT exist at all, and only the handful of people out there with Black Label boards would ever get to know what's up. It's not like it's the easiest pcb to find. Hell if it was gettable at all, I'd already have it in my collection.

Could it have been better? Sure. Should it have been better? Yeah, probably. But fuck it. Back to enjoying one of the greatest shmups of all time in the comfort of my own home.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:03 am

Twiddle wrote:rfaces' pixel perfect mode looks better with scanlines off on a crt, pretty much only worth it if you're playing on an hdtv and really, really want scanlines

Yeah, it makes it playable on an HDTV. Actually games with scanlines played on an HDTV, like the Sega ages ports, look just as good if not better (due to the perfect geometry) than the original arcade PCBs in 240p on an RGB monitor.
RFA's scanlines don't look as natural as Sega Ages, though, for some reason.

8 1/2 wrote:It's not like it's the easiest pcb to find. Hell if it was gettable at all, I'd already have it in my collection.

BL PCBs are quite easy to find these days, BTW, just ask any PCB retailer, they all have them in stock, and the price has been dropping for awhile now (still pretty expensive though).

Ultimately the display is not the main problem with this port. Stuff like it crashing once you get to the second loop is what really breaks this port.

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:17 am

one of the things that impressed me with RFA (demo) was all the visual options. it also had some good settings for practice as well. I have the US release on preorder and anxiously await it's arrival.

On Topic: Hopefully ketsui will get some more attention in the area of options, and hopefully DOJ can have some things resolved in a patch. I think some complaints are valid: fake scanlines and more choices for the visual filter are definately not challenging to implement. DOJ does let you scale the image and disable the blending filter, but this is meager at best.

On the other extreme, supporting 240p via a non-standard connection type is a bit much. keep in mind the 360 was designed for 720p games and an HDTV... The majority of the 360 user base is not putting their box in cab.

I enjoy the core DOJ game. Lets hope the Ketsui port does at least a bit better in the area of polish.

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:28 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
nem wrote:Remind me again what adverse effect it has on anything if there's an inferior port of Ketsui available to the larger audience?
Because...

kemical wrote:just got this game in the mail yesterday, first impressions:

DoDonPachi is better.

Wah wah wah, some random stranger on the Internet doesn't like a game quite as much as I do! These low-class mongrels never should have been given the opportunity to ruin my personal enjoyment of such a priceless work of art! I belong to an elite minority because it's impossible to subdivide a population into any other type of minority!

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:43 am

hmm i think he's being sarcastic guys

tommyb · Post by **tommyb** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:54 am

Just for the record, this game kicks my ass all over the place.

I got a 200 some chain on stage 1, once. I rule.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:29 am

So I downloaded and watched the second place player's replay (since the first place one wouldn't D/L.. I guess it's longer than 80 minutes) for Black Label.

First oddity, it says that the guy got to stage 1-7. Okay...? Well, I play the thing and it works... no odd bombing or anything. The guy has a pretty good run through the first loop (220 million or so) and begins loop two. He gets through the first stage and then the replay decides to spontaneously re-load stage 1-2. It was confusing as hell for a few moments... I was thinking, "Why has his score reset.. and what the hell happened to the rank?!?"

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:06 pm

Enhasa wrote:I belong to an elite minority because it's impossible to subdivide a population into any other type of minority!

I'll notify the papers... do you even understand English?

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:13 pm

EOJ wrote:BL PCBs are quite easy to find these days, BTW, just ask any PCB retailer, they all have them in stock, and the price has been dropping for awhile now (still pretty expensive though).

just make sure to inquire about a DOA warranty

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:29 pm

They also like to die.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:00 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
Enhasa wrote:I belong to an elite minority because it's impossible to subdivide a population into any other type of minority!
I'll notify the papers... do you even understand English?

Are you sure? Do they still believe you after you told them that some random guy can clear dodonpachi without shooting and couldn't provide proof?!11one

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:45 pm

EOJ wrote:RFA's scanlines don't look as natural as Sega Ages, though, for some reason.

RFAs scanlines are darker and thus more prominent (and less natural looking) than the Sega Ages implementation. Scanlines are such a trivial option to include, seriously, it's a ten minute coding job, if that. Some enterprising HDTV manufacturer should make a model with a scanlines option on (with variable intensity). I'd buy one in a shot.

agustusx wrote:On the other extreme, supporting 240p via a non-standard connection type is a bit much. keep in mind the 360 was designed for 720p games and an HDTV... The majority of the 360 user base is not putting their box in cab.

As EOJ pointed out, 240p is a non-issue if they implement a decent scanlines option. Actually, it's quite refreshing to hear someone admit that low-res games look better on a HDTV (with a decent scanlines option) than a PCB via an RGB low-res monitor.

antares · Post by **antares** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:22 pm

In RFA you can choose between two different scanline modes and then adjust the visibility of them between 1 and 100%. You can find the best looking solution for you. Imo it's perfect, the best looking fake scanlines I've ever seen.

The scanlines in Sega Ages look a bit to intense for me. In Mame or various emulators I've never seen good looking scanlines.

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:54 pm

antares wrote:In RFA you can choose between two different scanline modes and then adjust the visibility of them between 1 and 100%. You can find the best looking solution for you. Imo it's perfect, the best looking fake scanlines I've ever seen.

Sounds like it should be a new industry standard

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:13 pm

antares wrote:In RFA you can choose between two different scanline modes and then adjust the visibility of them between 1 and 100%. You can find the best looking solution for you. Imo it's perfect, the best looking fake scanlines I've ever seen.

The scanlines in Sega Ages look a bit to intense for me. In Mame or various emulators I've never seen good looking scanlines.

If you use MAME32 Plus! you can vary the intensity.