Japan Trip W/Pictures

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:21 am

a friend of mine went to japan for a few months as an english teacher (i might do this actually if/when i run out of money). and he'd already met his japanese colleague back in the UK. and at tokyo airport, after he touched down, he was waving at his colleague from about 30 feet away, and the guy just blanked him. when he asked later on a few days after, the guy said "sorry i didn't see you. all you foreigners look the same." there weren't any other white guys coming off the plane, and he's 6'2 with ginger hair

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:35 am

It doesn't at all surprise me the chap didn't wave to a foreign guy in a public airport.

I would like to point out though that even though this type of behaviour is typical, not all Japanese are the same. My girl friend (not girlfriend) in Japan ran up and hugged me in the middle of a crowded street in Ikebukero when she saw me.

She's heavily, heavily westernised though.

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:45 am

Skykid, regarding your rant about Japan, I would very much agree with you that the level of perversion here is extreme. Japanese men are very immature when it comes to women and have no clue how to relate with them. The amount of sex crimes, ranging from abuse in the home to molestation on the trains, is sickening. I read a study that said around 91% of women admitted to having been molested. Every girl I've dated here has told me they were straight up raped at one point in their life and it has caused me to build up a disgust and hatred for the men here. Fucking savages.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:55 am

NTSC-J wrote:Skykid, regarding your rant about Japan

Ah, let's not call it a 'rant', or else you'll get me in trouble! Just my two bits is all.

But yes, I heard similar things this time around. Many local trains from Tokyo to Kyoto to Osaka have 'female only' carriages to stop men fondling schoolchildren on early morning trains - a sorry state of affairs indeed.
This happens (and has happened for many years) and nobody does anything about it because it's customary to ignore other people's 'business'. Apparently Japanese girls don't know how to say no anything, because it would be considered impolite - even to the old bloke with his hands between their legs.

Such activity in the UK would see the chap get his head kicked in in about thirty seconds flat (as in keeping with our 'reserved' culture.)

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:14 am

I realise it's not actually the place that many otaku (which we all are) seem to think it is

http://www.outpostnine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1396

et married, get a green card, speak fluently and earn a living - but you'll still never really be accepted by people around you,

When you hit language fluency this diminishes to almost nothing. Sure, you're not a citizen and most likely won't be, but it's hard to dehumnize (or should I say easier to relate to?) someone you talk to.

The more you notice how people avoid you entirely - eye contact, floor space, general communication - the more you feel like a true outsider.

Trust me, it's not you. Japnaese habitually ignore other Japanese, too. We can sit here and point fingers as to why all day long, but I'll go out on a limb and say that condensed society does not help. If you come into contact with a million people every day, are you going to give a shit about any of them you don't know?

Naoko told me that she considered Japanese people to be 'mentally ill'

Sounds like every other typical Japanese that moves away for more than a year. The problem w/ this is that she's not taking the good w/ the bad, of which there is plenty. I often catch myself thinking that westerners are physically ill (obese) and massively under achieving. Of course this is a retarded view point as there are far fewer obese people than not, but I get quite fucked off when I try to get anything done, and have to deal w/ the lowest common denominator. From my experience (which is extensive) Japanese don't half ass service, where as westerners (outside of banks) quite often do. Is it true? Based on observation, abso-fucking-lutely. But, I live w/ it, as it's just a difference. When I am able to genetically engineer my own personally preferred race, I won't have to deal with it. Until then, I'll have to live with itt.

But it's all wasted, because Japanese men seem to be utterly clueless and completely hopeless at communicating with women.

The result is a case of mass perversion

it seems that this suppression of emotion, measured ignorance and forced discipline has literally started to break down natural communication.

You've made quite a few assumptions in just a week.

My girl friend (not girlfriend) in Japan ran up and hugged me in the middle of a crowded street in Ikebukero when she saw me.

I got onto my wife for public lack of PDA one time. I think I tried to kiss her or something and she pulled back as we were on the street in broad daylight. She said, "only ugly people in Japan do that." What an observation.

And finally, the best quote from the link above:

An understanding of Japanese is critical in understanding the society, cultural quirks, and other miscellany in this country without going entirely batty.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:05 am

Thanks GP, I had a feeling you'd be a good person to comment.

Personally, I don't think that 'mentally ill' is the right choice of words - I think she's finding a way to make a point by taking it to an extreme.

I consider a lot of English people to be mentally retarded, so it's all relative. The amount of downright idiocy that has to be suffered living in Britain is a daily challenge, most of which is fueled by alcoholism.

I apologise for making any assumptions - in fact, these perceptions over the course of my holiday were actually encouraged by the input of other people during my trip: that's an important point, and why I footnoted that the comments could be entirely wrong.

Every culture has its problems, which include racism. There's no denying that.

As I mentioned earlier in the week, Japan is wonderfully efficient, at least on the surface, and the service, attention to detail, and practicality of the little things is a joy to experience. All I was saying is that I found the constant shuttering out of other people and the non-interaction quite cold after a while - perhaps it's just something that personally turns me off.

You, like my friend Gary, are perfectly comfortable living with it - I just reckon I'd do better with regular visits.

As for the perversion thing, I still consider some of what I saw to be absolutely inexcusable. I've always been aware of the extreme 'tastes' of the Japanese - and yes, I love porn too - but there is a line.

DEL · Post by **DEL** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:16 pm

An interesting thread, and its good to read the input from NTSC-J and GaijinPunch.
I've never been there. The closest I get is that I live in the most Japanese Estate in London, with Japanese school, the London Tokyo Property office, Japan Services Estate agency and many Japanese families as neighbours.
We were invited round to a young Japanese family's house last year and I was shocked to hear the stories of their 9am to 12pm work hours

.

I always knew about the Japanese guys molesting girls on trains, but I didn't know it was THAT commonplace

. So much so that they have introduced girls-only carriages.

As for the people & culture, its gotta be one of the strangest in the World, with plusses and minuses. I suppose the Samurai ethos of 'No such thing as a prisoner of war' and commiting Hara-kiri performed to avoid the dishonour of capture, has passed down into the current culture. The Rape of Nanking springs to mind. The Japanese have been described as cruel and the Samurai code might go some way to explain this.
Maybe...I dunno

UnscathedFlyingObject · Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:23 pm

Everywhere in the world I've lived in is full of pricks so I'm never surprised to hear anywhere is full of pricks. It's just that different cultures different kind of pricks.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:46 pm

UnscathedFlyingObject wrote:Everywhere in the world I've lived in is full of pricks so I'm never surprised to hear anywhere is full of pricks. It's just that different cultures different kind of pricks.

Japan isn't full of pricks - there's more of those in the UK for sure (here people don't understand the concept of 'personal space' at all.)

Del is more along the right lines I think. I too wondered about the historical course of things leading up to modern Japanese culture.
I don't know exactly why what we would consider serious sexual abuse is tolerated, why people don't talk up or make arrests - but I do accept that this is a foriegn place and people have learned to accept it as part of their culture. Doesn't make it right, but I feel bad passing judgement as someone who has been raised in a completely different environment.

The only thing I can pinpoint is the massive sense of pride amongst Japanese people. I wouldn't say this is pivotal, but 'pride' in essence means that people choose not to be obviously emotional, and the entire body language seems structured so it's near impossible to suffer embarassment or lose face.

The aforementioned 'rape of Nanking', a massively prominent point in the history of Asian warfare, was suddenly removed from Japanese history textbooks not so many years ago, creating a huge rift and riots in asia. Once again, if it's a pride thing, sometimes you need to swallow that stuff rather than attempt to brush it under the carpet. It's stunning that the government actually attempted this (I'm not sure if it was even re-established.) Putting it in perspective, Germany wouldn't stop teaching younger generations about the holocaust - the reprecussions would be devastating in educational terms.

However, this speculation and analysis doesn't stop it from being an utterly fantastical place full of talented, kind hearted people. As linked by GP, Japan has plenty to see aside from arcades and anime, hopefully expressed in my little diary.
If you haven't been, you ain't lived.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:41 pm

There's definitely a "weirdness" to the quite... or lack of talking to you get from people on the street. To be honest, I like it. It seems in American some in is always up in your shit... whether it be someone selling you something, someone needing a buck for the train, greenpeace wanting you to smoke pot to help the environment, or whatever. At the sales counter, I'm always upsaled... trying to milk it. It's the polar opposite of Japan. I can't say which is right or not, but as someone that's laid back and starting to feel a little old, the anonymity of Japan is worth a lot to me.

Nanking

A Chinese resident of Japan made a movie a year or so ago called Yasukuni. I need to go see it. It was one of the handful of movies China allows in every year. They let anything in that bashes Japan though. However, I think you're mistaken the circumstances. Way back when (not long ago, actually) the invasion of China & Korea was wiped from history text books, saying it was too violent for children. I dont' think any history is too violent for children, personally. The world is what we make it, and all events up to now is what have made us what we are. I think everyone, even the young and innocent, shouldn't be denied that.

Samurai code might go some way to explain this.

Pretty sure the Samurai code states somewhere you should kill yourself in the privacy of your home. These days it's a freakin' disaster. Jump in front a train: 100,000 people are late for work. Use chemical solutions you find on the internet: your whole building is at risk. And my favorite, jump off a building: land on someone.

I wish I was making those up.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:07 pm

Thanks for the steer dude.

gaijinpunch wrote:They let anything in that bashes Japan though.

True, although contrary to historic relatons, the two countries have made a recent agreement to work together for economical strength. Most of asia is pretty eager to get a slice of the new Chinese economical growth.

That film you mentioned, is it the one by the director of Kekexili? If so I was looking forward to it, I just didn't know it was finished. That director has some mad skills. EDIT: No it's not the same director, I haven't heard of this one.

gaijinpunch wrote: Jump in front a train: 100,000 people are late for work. Use chemical solutions you find on the internet: your whole building is at risk. And my favorite, jump off a building: land on someone.

I wish I was making those up.

Ha ha, it's crazy! I heard that people commit suicide with loads of cash in their pockets so as not to inconvenience those that find them, and pay for body disposal. Now that's polite!
Also, my mate's wife was delayed due to a train jumper and was forced to take a taxi. Apparently she then billed the rail company for the cab fare, and then JR rail charged all receipts from every passenger on the train in the same situation back to the suicidee's family.

In a perverse way though, it all makes perfect sense.

Way back when (not long ago, actually) the invasion of China & Korea was wiped from history text books, saying it was too violent for children.

Surely the real reason for this is because Japan were the invaders? It's been fine for kids in education up to this point so I can't see any other explanation?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:04 pm

The Suicide stuff (money in pockets) is a myth. Apparently the train stations do bill the next of kin (by minute though, not by some tallied number from customers) but AFAIK, it doesn't have any legal ground to hold. I should look it up once and for all as I'm quite interested myself.

Yasukuni is the name of the shrine which is visited by people paying respects to those lost in war: including the generals and whatnot responsbile for the pre-WWII invasion of neighboring Asian countries. Koizumi raised a stink about it when he visited it at the end of his term, with many people saying he was promoting those old politics.

I think it's unforgivable to rewrite history, but Japan is hardly the first to do it. I don't remember any negative spin on Vietnam in my history books in school, and they certainly didn't talk about killing (accidental or on purpose) citizens. For what it's worth though, it goes both ways. They don't play the "you dropped 2 nukes on us, give us money" card either, although that is most definitely still in the history books.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:38 am

GaijinPunch wrote:The Suicide stuff (money in pockets) is a myth.

Are you sure bud? I know you've lived there a few years but Ai was born there and she told me it as gospel truth. She and her friends once found a chap hanged in Shizuoka in the forest and they actually robbed the wad of cash he'd left in his pockets.

Koizumi raised a stink about it when he visited it at the end of his term, with many people saying he was promoting those old politics.

He's that Richard Gere looking feller. He's pretty cool that guy. Been on the news a lot recently right?

They don't play the "you dropped 2 nukes on us, give us money" card either, although that is most definitely still in the history books.

No point worrying about that now, Japan has been America's bitch ever since those nukes cooled off.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:20 am

Are you sure bud? I know you've lived there a few years but Ai was born there and she told me it as gospel truth.

The most commplace phenomenon would be taking off one's shoes. It's more or less to let everyone know it wasn't an accident. I'm not saying some people wouldn't think ahead, I just don't think it's the norm. I've never heard of it anyway. Besides, I mean... what are you going to do if you find a dead body? Go scouring the pockets for money?

I looked on Wikipedia's Japanese Suicide page, which is quite extensive (makes sense, actually). There's a lot of legal mumbo-jumbo that I'm far from familiar with, but I did get the following:

-There was a case in June of 2005 where someone jumped in front of the Yamanote Line. It was stopped for 45 minutes, affected over 110,000 people, and the cost incurred by JR was said to be several million dollars.

-The next of kin can be billed for damages (which are obviously expensive) from the suicider's assets. It doesn't list which law it is specifically, but previously in the article (in parenthesis) it says that even if the railway wins the case, often the family simply defaults on the loan not having enough assets, or (and I love this one) simply disown the deceased family member, wiping their hands clean. I assume in the latter, the railway has a case saying they can take the suicider's assets full stop, but if it's a salaryman, you can assume there's not going to be much. The paycheck generally goes to the wife's bank account.

This is obviously a big issue as it makes cost of railways go up.

Anyways, there was no issue about dough in the pockets.

He's that Richard Gere looking feller. He's pretty cool that guy. Been on the news a lot recently right?

Yeah. My uncle-in-law actually looks like him.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:20 am

Very interesting stuff, and it's nice to see an offtopic thread on race and society that doesn't go down the f17 route

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:28 am

GaijinPunch wrote:It seems in American some in is always up in your shit...

I hate it when that happens, people calling the cops because they don't have enough FREEDOM FRIEZ

also, this thread made me lol

Finished reading "The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle" by Murakami Haruki.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:21 am

freddiebamboo wrote:Very interesting stuff, and it's nice to see an offtopic thread on race and society that doesn't go down the f17 route

It's jpj's avatar. I believe it's used when negotiating cease-fire's.

Then again, I should get medals for being tolerant. I get people trying to tell me all the time that I'm a sucker for believing in God, and it just bounces off me. It's a little known fact that I am unoffendable.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:39 am

GaijinPunch wrote: It's jpj's avatar. I believe it's used when negotiating cease-fire's.

It's a little known fact that I am unoffendable.

Dude, I really hope there's nothing been said that you would consider offensive anyway. I've enjoyed the open discussion with you, your input has been insightful.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:13 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:It's jpj's avatar. I believe it's used when negotiating cease-fire's.

sig-worthy

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:26 am

jpj wrote:great stuff
now get some sleep and try not to look at your bank balance for a few days

Ha Ha Ha!
That was spontaneously funny!

Good one!