Ketsui X and Daioujou Black Label X - Ports for Xbox 360

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:38 am

Not much of an update, but the Famitsu sales report for the week of this game's launch is finally out ... and the game placed 19th, which I believe is below the point of actual numbers being reported. Ahh well.

adversity1 · Post by **adversity1** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:16 am

Elixir, I think you understand now why I had so much hatred for this game a couple pages back.

X-mode in particular does what 8 1/2 says: bends DOJ over a stump, turns it into quick achievement chum. Personally I think achievements can mean something, just like a point total in any shooting game. Look at Ikaruga, if someone has 200/200 in that game, they're pretty goddamn good at the game. It means they can full chain all five stages, and 1CC it. That's awesome.

DOJ on the other hand, anyone who cares will 1000/1000 it, and it looks like it's some pushover game. I don't mean that everything has to be really hard to get, but I wouldn't have minded working for those achievements if they weren't takable in X-mode. Well actually the port quality is really shite so maybe I would've.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:18 am

Elixir wrote:Apparently, the 360 port has safespots: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6260763

WTF? That looks like a purposely programmed safe spot where bullets can pass right through your ship! Class act this port is.

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:30 am

What ever

I really am happy with this game and it has become a favorite of mine… Its all I have played all week and it has been great fun.

I'm off to play some more.

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:03 am

So I finally got my grubby hands on it. My first look at the game's box art felt pretty prophetic - here was a picture of the game's characters crashed and half dead on the ground.

So far, I've seen something wierd. In Black Label mode, a hyper came down while I was fighting the 2nd stage boss. I assumed this is never supposed to happen, you are always supposed to get them in the next level. If that's true, it's a bug. And a pretty bad one, too.

Also I'm not sure about reports of replays being fucked. I downloaded a replay from the scoreboard and it worked. The replay was from the 2nd player side, so maybe that's why it worked. Shit bug in any case.

I didn't experience the terrible load times, since my 360 is more recent. Load times were around 10-15 seconds instead of 60 seconds.

The lack of shot power option in stage select mode is just lame as hell. I'd rather play the PS2 port.

I have played the PS2 and arcade version very little, and even I could notice differences between the arcade and 360 port. That just speaks of lazyness IMO.

Achievements are a joke, as allready mentioned.

Have yet to unlock X-mode but it seems pretty easy/boring anyway.

lol@safe spot video.

If you are on the fence about this, do yourself a favor and just get the PS2 or arcade version. The patch won't be out for at least 3-4 months, and it will probabally only fix the most glaring flaws (crashes in 2nd loop, long load times, bugged replays, etc.)

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:16 am

Udderdude wrote: So far, I've seen something wierd. In Black Label mode, a hyper came down while I was fighting the 2nd stage boss. I assumed this is never supposed to happen, you are always supposed to get them in the next level. If that's true, it's a bug. And a pretty bad one, too.

That's normal. Releasing hypers on a boss is useful, mostly for the stage 4 boss if you don't have one available for the spinning cog part which gives you a good bonus and fills your hypers nicely.

Just got back into DOJ though, and I can't remember how it's done. Bombing possibly? One of the DOJ vets will be able to sort this out.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:39 am

adversity1 wrote:Elixir, I think you understand now why I had so much hatred for this game a couple pages back.

X-mode in particular does what 8 1/2 says: bends DOJ over a stump, turns it into quick achievement chum. Personally I think achievements can mean something, just like a point total in any shooting game. Look at Ikaruga, if someone has 200/200 in that game, they're pretty goddamn good at the game. It means they can full chain all five stages, and 1CC it. That's awesome.

DOJ on the other hand, anyone who cares will 1000/1000 it, and it looks like it's some pushover game. I don't mean that everything has to be really hard to get, but I wouldn't have minded working for those achievements if they weren't takable in X-mode. Well actually the port quality is really shite so maybe I would've.

I think it hit me when I went back to my PS2 port. I have a 17" tate'd monitor sitting beside my LCD, and it made me go "haha holy shit" as soon as I played it after playing the 360 port for a few hours. I saw that safespot vid and thought that it might work on the PS2 version. It should be the other way around, especially since it's on a newer console and has more possibilities. Things like half assed achievements should be taken care of immediately.

I mean, I 1cc'd BL legitimately and unlocked the achievement for defeating the king bee. That doesn't mean shit because you can just continue (if you die to him) and you'll still get it. So in that respect, I feel completely ripped off. It seems like the shittiest games have the easiest achievements.

Also I don't know if it's the port or Black Label itself, but the suspense is gone. In the PS2 version; which I still have yet to 1cc, it's much harder to work with. Scoring is tighter and so is the first loop in general. I feel a bit disheartened with what I've played overall, but I'm still trying to like it. Thing is, this doesn't make me want to go back to the PS2 port, it makes me not want to play DOJ at all. On one hand, you have the PS2's white label, with anal scoring and a few bugs here and there, and on the other you have BL which is easier but incorrectly ported.

Chaos;head Noah's coming out soon. Can't read Japanese worth a damn, but I'm a big fan of the visual novel which was translated. It's going to have achievements. The main game can take anywhere from 20-40 hours, depending on your reading skill. Plus, there's 6 routes for all of the characters added to the 360 port. With all that, it should take over 50+ hours (providing you aren't simply fast forwarding through the text) to beat and get all the achievements. So does this mean that something that you read is more skillful because it takes longer? The achievements in DOJBLEX aren't skillful at all, because they're poorly executed. And the visual novel is also by 5pb, so, they really don't know what the fuck they're doing.

But it isn't the achievements which bother me. It's the menus and loading times, and an endless supply of bugs. I found another one an hour or so ago: if you're in the menu of a game but change profiles, it doesn't sign you into your new profile with that profile's settings, but rather signs you in and keeps all defaults as if you were playing for the first time. Stuff like this is trivial and shouldn't even exist.

I guess what I'm saying is, I like Daioujou Black Label, but I don't like Daioujou Black Label Extra.

Final verdict:

malik11 · Post by **malik11** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:43 am

freddiebamboo wrote:
Udderdude wrote:Just got back into DOJ though, and I can't remember how it's done. Bombing possibly? One of the DOJ vets will be able to sort this out.

You must deplete your bombs.

howmuchkeefe · Post by **howmuchkeefe** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:23 am

Aren't there safe spots for a few of Hibachi's patterns in the original and PS2 version of DOJ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SsPD2hmAMo

1:03 and 1:35

Or is the problem the legitimacy of the safe spot in Elixir's vid? It looks some bullets are actually passing through the ship's hit box.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:50 am

howmuchkeefe wrote:Aren't there safe spots for a few of Hibachi's patterns in the original and PS2 version of DOJ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SsPD2hmAMo

1:03 and 1:35

Or is the problem the legitimacy of the safe spot in Elixir's vid? It looks some bullets are actually passing through the ship's hit box.

Exactly. The video you posted shows temporary safe spots within the patterns (legit), while Elixir's video has bullets going through the ships hitbox if the ship sits in a certain area at the bottom of the screen throughout the entire boss battle. The video zooms in at 1:43 to 2:08 showing more clearly the bullets passing through the hitbox.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:28 am

Udderdude wrote:I didn't experience the terrible load times, since my 360 is more recent. Load times were around 10-15 seconds instead of 60 seconds.

10-15 Seconds for the initial load from the 360 dash?

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:17 am

any1 got a list of secret achievements/translated to english? thanks

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:47 pm

howmuchkeefe wrote:Aren't there safe spots for a few of Hibachi's patterns in the original and PS2 version of DOJ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SsPD2hmAMo

1:03 and 1:35

Or is the problem the legitimacy of the safe spot in Elixir's vid? It looks some bullets are actually passing through the ship's hit box.

Only a small portion of that can be considered a safespot, and mostly on the first pattern. I haven't managed to replicate the vid I linked, mostly because you can't even practice bosses or high end stages in the port, but you basically just sit there.

Remember, DOJ BL's hitboxes are slightly different. Maybe Type-A Leinyan is the only one that can pull it off.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:59 pm

There's definitely a safe spot almost exactly like that on the Loop 1 final boss's last pattern in the original game too. You can just sit in one spot forever without shooting. Of course, that one doesn't involve bullets crossing over your hitbox and not killing you ...

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:28 pm

So what. Shooting kills you or changes the hitbox? Using Leinyan is somehow better for this safespot? I don't get it.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:33 pm

Here it is in the original game: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm689566

Shooting causes the pattern to change as the boss's life gets lower, but I guess it doesn't matter since he shoots it in this video and he is okay. I've seen a different safe spot in a different video but I can't find it right now, that one is not against the back wall.

No idea what's up with Leinyan though.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:01 pm

how did you do this hatena trick again ^^"

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:48 pm

Gwyrgyn Blood wrote:Here it is in the original game: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm689566

Shooting causes the pattern to change as the boss's life gets lower, but I guess it doesn't matter since he shoots it in this video and he is okay. I've seen a different safe spot in a different video but I can't find it right now, that one is not against the back wall.

No idea what's up with Leinyan though.

I think this needs to be pixel perfect. I can't pull it off.

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:51 pm

All I can say is that, as somebody who's never played the arcadee or PS2 versions, I've got absolutely no problem with what I've been playing on the 360. Out of all the shmups on the console, this is the one I've had the most fun with straight out of the box.

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:13 pm

can any1 explain this secret achievement? its in engrish

When the part of the simultaneous destructive stage 1 boss is turning, it destroys, appears 2 hyper items

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:21 pm

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP wrote:can any1 explain this secret achievement? its in engrish

When the part of the simultaneous destructive stage 1 boss is turning, it destroys, appears 2 hyper items

Destroy the stage 1 boss's options when they're in their spinning attack pattern (you'll get 2 hyper items instead of just one if they're killed at this point).

I'm still missing 2 of the secret achievements... if you look at the in-game listing, the one beneath the achievement listed above (the 2 hypers from the stage 1 boss) and the one at the very bottom. What are these?

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:32 pm

Kiken wrote:
PsikyoPshumpPshooterP wrote:can any1 explain this secret achievement? its in engrish

When the part of the simultaneous destructive stage 1 boss is turning, it destroys, appears 2 hyper items
Destroy the stage 1 boss's options when they're in their spinning attack pattern (you'll get 2 hyper items instead of just one if they're killed at this point)

i did this but no achievement. am i suppose to destroy the 2 options right at the end of the boss before it dies?

edit:wtf? i did it at the end of the boss,then collected the 2 hypers by bombing while it was spinning, no achievement still

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:51 pm

Just one more little weird thing in this game: You can't continue in practice mode. I was just chunking through stage 4, trying to improve my chain, and not really focused on survival. I finally died out, and I just got the "Game Over" screen. Quality work there.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:57 pm

Uh, but can you continue in practice mode in, like, any other game ever?

JigsawMan · Post by **JigsawMan** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:00 pm

Does anyone play this with a VGA cable on a LCD monitor? I swear that the aspect ratio is all screwed up in tate mode, it looks really long rather than filling up the full width on the screen. I am using Dell 2107FP monitors.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:33 pm

I can't rotate my monitor, but yes, I wouldn't be surprised if that was screwed up as well.

Replays are also screwed up. I downloaded two different replays on the leaderboards and they both spazzed out, bombing then dying immediately. Not being able to continue in practice mode is stupid as well, but I've already mentioned this before.

tommyb · Post by **tommyb** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:14 pm

So, I really wanna play DOJ, and I don't have a Jap PS2, but I also wanna play Trizeal and Exzeal, so what would you recommend?

I've been reading all this negative shit about DOJ BLEX, and I can't afford both, so can I get a few opinions on what one I should get first?

Edit: In case you didn't realize what I was trying to decide between, BLEX and Shooting Love 200X

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:18 pm

Kiken wrote:
PsikyoPshumpPshooterP wrote:can any1 explain this secret achievement? its in engrish

When the part of the simultaneous destructive stage 1 boss is turning, it destroys, appears 2 hyper items
Destroy the stage 1 boss's options when they're in their spinning attack pattern (you'll get 2 hyper items instead of just one if they're killed at this point).

I'm still missing 2 of the secret achievements... if you look at the in-game listing, the one beneath the achievement listed above (the 2 hypers from the stage 1 boss) and the one at the very bottom. What are these?

the 50 gs achievement is to beat X mode with all characters. and the one below the 2 hypers for stage 1boss is to select Piper as your character in X mode. do you have any tips or a video for the achievement im having trouble with???

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:29 pm

Elixir wrote:I downloaded two different replays on the leaderboards and they both spazzed out, bombing then dying immediately.

Could it be that the replay somehow uses the control scheme of the player recorded?

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:33 pm

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP wrote:
Kiken wrote:I'm still missing 2 of the secret achievements... if you look at the in-game listing, the one beneath the achievement listed above (the 2 hypers from the stage 1 boss) and the one at the very bottom. What are these?
the 50 gs achievement is to beat X mode with all characters. and the one below the 2 hypers for stage 1boss is to select Piper as your character in X mode. do you have any tips or a video for the achievement im having trouble with???

I have the use Piper one. It's the one above that but below the 2 hypers from the stage 1 boss. Someone said it has something to do with the two large tanks in stage 2...?

As for the two hypers at the stage 1 boss... umm, don't bomb? I mean, the very first time I triggered them, I got the achievement (I was playing in Black Label).