Ketsui X and Daioujou Black Label X - Ports for Xbox 360

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SAM
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Post by SAM »

Erinu wrote:I'm in Japan at the moment and noticed it went on sale. Here's my impressions so far...

- Loading times are really long, installing it to your tiny 360 HDD doesn't make a scrap of difference
- Lack of options such as positioning found in the PS2 ver.
- You can actually chain the fucking Stage 3 boss.. lol..
- The "rail sliding" enemies in Stage 4 seem to to be out of sync
- X Mode is pointless

Summary: Shitty fucking port.
You are already disappointed? Those are just a few of them.

The details bug / enhancement request list is here:
http://wikiwiki.jp/daioujo/?%C9%D4%B6%F ... X360%CA%D4
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Would they fix all this in the coming patch? Looks like more than a month's work to me.

5pd also responsible for Ketsui X 絆地獄, this make me worry... :? :?
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Post by ex.machina »

SAM wrote: 5pd also responsible for Ketsui X 絆地獄, this make me worry... :? :?
Lets hope they will try to improve due to the criticism they are receiving. Since DDP is basically emulated, it should be relatively easy for 5pd to replace the ROM, along with some menu touch up. Hopefully they will now invest a bit more time....

... or they might simply can the game and return to the fun of publishing dating simulations. ;)
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Post by Limbrooke »

ex.machina wrote:
SAM wrote: 5pd also responsible for Ketsui X 絆地獄, this make me worry... :? :?
Lets hope they will try to improve due to the criticism they are receiving. Since DDP is basically emulated, it should be relatively easy for 5pd to replace the ROM, along with some menu touch up. Hopefully they will now invest a bit more time....

... or they might simply can the game and return to the fun of publishing dating simulations. ;)
DOJ BL emulated? eh...
I imagine your last statement is put forward jokingly since it's not surprising that issues have come up. The fact being on 360 allows for certain flexibility anyway since patches/updates can be applied game specifically. Given the track record or lack thereof of 5pb first impressions here seem to be positive but not without fault and I'd say that's fine. Nobody is perfect.

I got the bug list as posted by SAM web translated but obviously some of it is subjective(ie, gibberish).
Here is the translated version of that list: http://tinyurl.com/cbpmj3 (I recommend not viewing this with IE6)
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Post by Sonic R »

Limbrooke wrote: I got the bug list as posted by SAM web translated but obviously some of it is subjective(ie, gibberish).
Here is the translated version of that list: http://tinyurl.com/cbpmj3 (I recommend not viewing this with IE6)
Thanks for the translation…

Anyways…

What a fucking bunch of whining bitch ass babies. Fucking complain about trivial shit. Too many people expect the world to bow to them and their wants and desires and shit on everything else that is not to they standards.

I played the game all day yesterday and the only complain I have are the load times. They are long but then I play games on Sega CD and Turbo Duo and I know of long load times. People become use to things and then cry when they move their cheese. Bunch of people cry over stupid shit fuck them all. Bunch of fucking snobs. Well now I can play DDPDOJ Black Label and never worry about suicide board. Tell me how my ass taste.
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Post by Udderdude »

Sonic R wrote:
Limbrooke wrote: I got the bug list as posted by SAM web translated but obviously some of it is subjective(ie, gibberish).
Here is the translated version of that list: http://tinyurl.com/cbpmj3 (I recommend not viewing this with IE6)
Thanks for the translation…

Anyways…

What a fucking bunch of whining bitch ass babies. Fucking complain about trivial shit. Too many people expect the world to bow to them and their wants and desires and shit on everything else that is not to they standards.

I played the game all day yesterday and the only complain I have are the load times. They are long but then I play games on Sega CD and Turbo Duo and I know of long load times. People become use to things and then cry when they move their cheese. Bunch of people cry over stupid shit fuck them all. Bunch of fucking snobs. Well now I can play DDPDOJ Black Label and never worry about suicide board. Tell me how my ass taste.
I somehow doubt you've played the game enough to notice all the flaws, higher level players obviously can. They are porting a game that's allready been ported, and it's worse than the original port, so of course they are going to get flak for it, and deservedly so.

And some of the flaws are really just something you would never expect to see in a professionally released product. How some of those problems got past MS QA testing, I'll never know.

Before you come at me with your OMG PCB ELITIST bullshit you seem to love trotting out .. I don't own a single PCB.
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Post by moozooh »

Sonic R wrote:What a fucking bunch of whining bitch ass babies. Fucking complain about trivial shit. Too many people expect the world to bow to them and their wants and desires and shit on everything else that is not to they standards.
I love the transition from your previous "I Suck" attitude to this.
Sonic R wrote:I played the game all day yesterday and the only complain I have are the load times.
Stop fucking complain about trivial shit.
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Post by Sonic R »

Udderdude wrote: I somehow doubt you've played the game enough to notice all the flaws, higher level players obviously can. They are porting a game that's allready been ported, and it's worse than the original port, so of course they are going to get flak for it, and deservedly so.

And some of the flaws are really just something you would never expect to see in a professionally released product. How some of those problems got past MS QA testing, I'll never know.

Before you come at me with your OMG PCB ELITIST bullshit you seem to love trotting out .. I don't own a single PCB.
Right I am a piece of shit thanks for the reminder. OMG sorry the game is not to your ivory standards and you feel compel to bitch and whine about trivial shit and go to your friends home and local arcades and play a version that fits your high standards Fuck you too tell me how my ass taste.
moozooh wrote:
Sonic R wrote:I played the game all day yesterday and the only complain I have are the load times.
Stop fucking complain about trivial shit.
You're right… what better time to take a piss when loading up the game or to grab a cold beverage of preference :P

In real life, I couldn't care less about load times… unless its Willy Beamish on Sega CD where I fall asleep when waiting for it to load :lol:
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Post by Kron »

Sonic R wrote:Anyways…

What a fucking bunch of whining bitch ass babies. Fucking complain about trivial shit. Too many people expect the world to bow to them and their wants and desires and shit on everything else that is not to they standards.
Surely the lowest standard expected should be that they are totally faithful ports of the original games.
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Post by freddiebamboo »

Erinu wrote: - You can actually chain the fucking Stage 3 boss.. lol..
WTF? That sounds real strange, have they changed some enemy placements or shortened the start up time of the bosses?
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Post by mrtie »

Elixir wrote:
adversity1 wrote:Also confirmed that a Hori EX 2 is inferior to arcade Seimitsu. Scored 30 mil higher this time at the arcade. Sigh...time to mod my stick.
HRAP EX2's use common ground, so have fun with that.
Hrap may be common ground but the Hori EX2 most certianly isn't. However it's not rocket science to throw a JFL or a ls32 inside one, just a pain in the ass an a lot of dremel work.
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Post by kemical »

whats the trouble with common ground, that is usually a great a bonus...
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Post by Acid King »

Sonic R wrote: Right I am a piece of shit thanks for the reminder. OMG sorry the game is not to your ivory standards and you feel compel to bitch and whine about trivial shit and go to your friends home and local arcades and play a version that fits your high standards Fuck you too tell me how my ass taste.
You've seriously got the worst case of martyr complex since Icycalm.
Feedback will set you free.
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Post by Sonic R »

Acid King wrote:
Sonic R wrote: Right I am a piece of shit thanks for the reminder. OMG sorry the game is not to your ivory standards and you feel compel to bitch and whine about trivial shit and go to your friends home and local arcades and play a version that fits your high standards Fuck you too tell me how my ass taste.
You've seriously got the worst case of martyr complex since Icycalm.
Sorry.
I'm not Jesus of Nazareth. I'm just a fellow who enjoys playing video games for recreation. I can't be bothered with asinine details that are not to the standards of the highbrows.
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Post by jpj »

i like the new sonic R 8)
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Post by Acid King »

Sonic R wrote: Sorry.
I'm not Jesus of Nazareth. I'm just a fellow who enjoys playing video games for recreation. I can't be bothered with asinine details that are not to the standards of the highbrows.
You forgot "...and posts silly, reactive whining every time someone criticizes a console port."

Anyway, the port sounds serviceable. As long as there are no serious glitches or changes, it's ok in my book. Not to mention, they have the ability to patch it so there's room for improvement. Seems like they're intent on pleasing the fans so hopefully we'll see some updates.
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captpain wrote:Basically, the reason people don't like Bakraid is because they are fat and dumb
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Post by sven666 »

zakk wrote:
Erinu wrote: - You can actually chain the fucking Stage 3 boss.. lol..

????
i want to hear more about this too, you can keep your stage chain going into the bossfight (ala DDP DFK) or what do you mean?
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Post by jpj »

i can't imagine that's possible :?
do you mean chaining into the midboss (because the timing of the popcorn enemies before it is not quite correct) ???
RegalSin wrote:Videogames took my life away like the Natives during colonial times.
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Post by Cthulhu »

Acid King wrote: Anyway, the port sounds serviceable. As long as there are no serious glitches or changes, it's ok in my book. Not to mention, they have the ability to patch it so there's room for improvement. Seems like they're intent on pleasing the fans so hopefully we'll see some updates.
Except for the load times, the rest of the complaints seem superfluous to me. I'm happy I bought it (even though I have the PS2 version) just to support more Cave home ports.
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Post by Elixir »

mrtie wrote:Hrap may be common ground but the Hori EX2 most certianly isn't. However it's not rocket science to throw a JFL or a ls32 inside one, just a pain in the ass an a lot of dremel work.
The EX2 (the black HRAP with a Sanwa stick and Hori buttons) is a fake JLF because it's common ground. I can't browse SRK because it's overloaded, but I'm fairly confident in saying that.

Anyway, my copy arrived today and I tinkered with it. I'm quite happy with the result. The menus are irritating and it took me a bit of digging before I found people on my friends list at the leaderboard section, since you need to use the dpad to switch between.. I don't know what.

As for the menus, I'm used to them because X = OK, O = Cancel. It's not usually like that for Japanese games, though. At least in the original DOJ for example, O is OK. Once you select Black Label, a bunch of other options come up, which seem to control differently to the previous ones. The previous ones are simply "X to proceed, O to go back" but the pre-game options use the Start and Select buttons, for some reason.

The loading times aren't that bad. I was expecting something much worse, actually. I'm extremely pleased with the "quick restart" option which is present (when pausing the game) and it resets the game immediately and faster than what it takes you to reset the PS2 version, shoving you back at the ship select screen.

As for in-game, well, I've never played Black Label before but I immediately noticed that chaining is easier and you're less likely to break your chain to the following:

- Picking up a powerup
- Chaining from a large ship with a laser to a small ship with a laser
- Chaining a small ship with your shot seems to have a longer chain time

But as for the port, the only irregularities I've detected have been the additional slowdown on the final pattern of the Stage 2 boss. Pre-game, the options also have a practice menu, but it lacks detailed configuration so you're not allowed to enter, say, Stage 3 with 2 or 3 hypers (like a normal run) or start at the boss. The configuration options are nice, but like someone said earlier, there's no configuration to change the position of the screen. The "horizontal control" option is there, too. I haven't seen that shit since Raiden DX.

My main complaint is that the screen is blurry. It doesn't look right. In comparison to playing it on a CRT, that is. Right now, I'm playing the game on a 1680x1050 monitor (which has black sides) and it feels a bit crammed, as well as unnaturally blurry. It isn't game breaking to play the game in yoko, I'm just not used to it any more.

I also installed the game to my HDD, but I haven't played since. I don't know what the loading times are like with the game installed. Thankfully the game is only 3.4GB to install, unlike a lot of other games which are 5-6+ GB or more. I only have a 20 gb hdd so I'm trying to be as conservative as possible here.

The game also came with a nicely detailed hand book. I like it. It shows the hitbox locations of both ships, which have changed from the original: Type-B's hitbox is further up, to the head of the plane and Type-A's hitbox is slightly lower. It also shows where all bee locations are for all stages.

In short, I think it was worth buying. A patch is coming, and it's not like it's unplayable until that happens. I don't recommend using the 360 dpad (although I was able to make it to Stage 5 on my first try, I ended up bombing on places which I would've normally been able to pass but wasn't capable of doing so thanks to the lack of dexterity in the 360's dpad) so definitely consider getting a SFIV stick, HRAP or SFIV pad if you want to get more out of this game. I wouldn't hold out much hope for a US release but I would most certainly put this down as a game to buy if you're getting or own a JP 360 (yeah, it's obviously region locked).

Edit: I also forgot to mention that the settings were on Very Difficult for BL before I hit the "default" button. Check yours.

Also, the game says it's copyright 2008 5pb, but they published it in 2009. I'm just nitpicking now though.
Last edited by Elixir on Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by mrtie »

Elixir wrote:
mrtie wrote:Hrap may be common ground but the Hori EX2 most certianly isn't. However it's not rocket science to throw a JFL or a ls32 inside one, just a pain in the ass an a lot of dremel work.
The EX2 (the black HRAP with a Sanwa stick and Hori buttons) is a fake JLF because it's common ground. I can't browse SRK because it's overloaded, but I'm fairly confident in saying that.

Anyway, my copy arrived today and I tinkered with it. I'm quite happy with the result. The menus are irritating and it took me a bit of digging before I found people on my friends list at the leaderboard section, since you need to use the dpad to switch between.. I don't know what.

As for the menus, I'm used to them because X = OK, O = Cancel. It's not usually like that for Japanese games, though. At least in the original DOJ for example, O is OK. Once you select Black Label, a bunch of other options come up, which seem to control differently to the previous ones. The previous ones are simply "X to proceed, O to go back" but the pre-game options use the Start and Select buttons, for some reason.

The loading times aren't that bad. I was expecting something much worse, actually. I'm extremely pleased with the "quick restart" option which is present (when pausing the game) and it resets the game immediately and faster than what it takes you to reset the PS2 version, shoving you back at the ship select screen.

As for in-game, well, I've never played Black Label before but I immediately noticed that chaining is easier and you're less likely to break your chain to the following:

- Picking up a powerup
- Chaining from a large ship with a laser to a small ship with a laser
- Chaining a small ship with your shot seems to have a longer chain time

But as for the port, the only irregularities I've detected have been the additional slowdown on the final pattern of the Stage 2 boss. Pre-game, the options also have a practice menu, but it lacks detailed configuration so you're not allowed to enter, say, Stage 3 with 2 or 3 hypers (like a normal run) or start at the boss. The configuration options are nice, but like someone said earlier, there's no configuration to change the position of the screen. The "horizontal control" option is there, too. I haven't seen that shit since Raiden DX.

My main complaint is that the screen is blurry. It doesn't look right. In comparison to playing it on a CRT, that is. Right now, I'm playing the game on a 1680x1050 monitor (which has black sides) and it feels a bit crammed, as well as unnaturally blurry. It isn't game breaking to play the game in yoko, I'm just not used to it any more.

I also installed the game to my HDD, but I haven't played since. I don't know what the loading times are like with the game installed. Thankfully the game is only 3.4GB to install, unlike a lot of other games which are 5-6+ GB or more. I only have a 20 gb hdd so I'm trying to be as conservative as possible here.

The game also came with a nicely detailed hand book. I like it. It shows the hitbox locations of both ships, which have changed from the original: Type-B's hitbox is further up, to the head of the plane and Type-A's hitbox is slightly lower. It also shows where all bee locations are for all stages.

In short, I think it was worth buying. A patch is coming, and it's not like it's unplayable until that happens. I don't recommend using the 360 dpad (although I was able to make it to Stage 5 on my first try, I ended up bombing on places which I would've normally been able to pass but wasn't capable of doing so thanks to the lack of dexterity in the 360's dpad) so definitely consider getting a SFIV stick, HRAP or SFIV pad if you want to get more out of this game. I wouldn't hold out much hope for a US release but I would most certainly put this down as a game to buy if you're getting or own a JP 360 (yeah, it's obviously region locked).

You are thinking of the Hori EX Pro...the EX2 is a cheap all hori stick retails for around $50. It's all good.
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Post by Cthulhu »

A side note about the book: if you can read Japanese it's a very helpful little guide, although there's nothing there that I imagine can't be found online. It reminds me a lot of the one that came with Ibara. It does feel a tad like they're trying to cram a bit too much info into a small book, but it was a very nice freebie.
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Post by Elixir »

Haha what the fuck I made it up to Hibachi's line pattern with an Xbox 360 pad. Score of 111 mill.

And I had an extra life going into him, but I didn't bomb on his bubble pattern.. ah well, I'm getting close.
mrtie wrote:You are thinking of the Hori EX Pro...the EX2 is a cheap all hori stick retails for around $50. It's all good.
Oh people mod those? I thought their buttons were soldered.

Edit: Leaderboards show the highest scoring person on your friends list at the bottom?

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Post by Cthulhu »

Sales numbers for this for the first week from Famitsu were posted over on the-magicbox.com. It sold approximately 8,000 units the first week. That's not a big number, but I have no idea how many they needed to sell to break even / profit. IIRC Trizeal for the DC broke even at something crazy low, like 2000. I figure that means they'll sell somewhere around 10k overall, which is the cutoff point for a lightly profitable bishoujo game. Again, not sure what they need, just giving a comparison to another genre that doesn't tend to move all that many units.
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Post by adversity1 »

Elixir wrote:Haha what the fuck I made it up to Hibachi's line pattern with an Xbox 360 pad. Score of 111 mill.
Jesus, if you use a stick and start chaining you can probably top 200 mil. Go for it. I got 119 this morning but I think I'm just gonna use this for practice and get my scores in the arcade until I can get a Hori SE or a better stick. Too frustrating to die in stuff I used to chain well just because of my shitty EX2.
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Post by ex.machina »

Cthulhu wrote:Sales numbers for this for the first week from Famitsu were posted over on the-magicbox.com. It sold approximately 8,000 units the first week. That's not a big number, but I have no idea how many they needed to sell to break even / profit. IIRC Trizeal for the DC broke even at something crazy low, like 2000. I figure that means they'll sell somewhere around 10k overall, which is the cutoff point for a lightly profitable bishoujo game. Again, not sure what they need, just giving a comparison to another genre that doesn't tend to move all that many units.
Hard to say what their costs are, but I also think 8000 copies for first week isn't too bad all in all. Any word on how many copies of Shooting Collection 200x moved in the same period?

Trizeal for DC was probably a cheap port. For DDP, they need to pay royalties to Cave, spend time into realization of the port, etc. All in all it's probably hard to get rich with such niche titles, but I think they will run a profit.
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Post by originalz »

Cthulhu wrote:Sales numbers for this for the first week from Famitsu were posted over on the-magicbox.com. It sold approximately 8,000 units the first week. That's not a big number, but I have no idea how many they needed to sell to break even / profit. IIRC Trizeal for the DC broke even at something crazy low, like 2000. I figure that means they'll sell somewhere around 10k overall, which is the cutoff point for a lightly profitable bishoujo game. Again, not sure what they need, just giving a comparison to another genre that doesn't tend to move all that many units.
No no, it sold 8000 first DAY, this was reported last Friday. Weekly totals shouldn't be out yet.

Source: http://dubai.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/ghard/1235119561/66

I do notice that there are some number differences between the sites, but I think it's pretty absurd to assume that the game didn't move any copies after the first day.

Shooting Love did 2k first day.
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Post by Elixir »

adversity1 wrote:
Elixir wrote:Haha what the fuck I made it up to Hibachi's line pattern with an Xbox 360 pad. Score of 111 mill.
Jesus, if you use a stick and start chaining you can probably top 200 mil. Go for it. I got 119 this morning but I think I'm just gonna use this for practice and get my scores in the arcade until I can get a Hori SE or a better stick. Too frustrating to die in stuff I used to chain well just because of my shitty EX2.
I have yet to consistently chain stage 1 and 2 in a single run but I know I can do it. The 360 dpad is infuriating so I think I'll wait until I get a SFIV pad before seriously giving this a go.

Back to the PS2 port for now, I guess.
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Post by E. Randy Dupre »

I'm using the SFIV pad with it and the buttons are noticably spongy when you're hammering them rapidly. I've had other, more serious problems with the pad - I had to take it to bits as soon as I received it in order to get the RB button to work properly - but this feels like a general build quality issue, rather than a result of me being unlucky again.

I've not played DOJ before, so can somebody quickly run through the main differences between the original version and Black Label for me, please?

Also: I'm really bad at it.

Also also: hell, but it looks (surprisingly) rough. Cave's fondness for pre-rendered sprites, rather than hand-drawn ones, dates their games terribly.
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Post by croikle »

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Post by E. Randy Dupre »

Cheers. If the changes are for high-level play, that probably explains why I'm having trouble noticing them ;)
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