I now know why some people do not play video games.

[D]

[I'm talking about 30 somethings and younger people here]
"I am not good in video games" they say.
I think this has to do with some people who only like to play sports they're good at. They only cheer for sports teams that win. Like in the 90's everybody was for the bulls.....blech
These people do not like to get their asses wooped by a video game.
They feel that for video games you need a certain affinity. I am not very good at video games so I don't play them.
That doesn't make any fukking sense. IMHO I don't see any reason the show a big disinterest in video games unless you have other hobbies that take alot of your time already. As for me personally I'm up for anything you can throw at me.
What really goes on inside the minds of people that say they do not "like" video games? I'm sure they would have at least a little fun if they opened up a little. I have nothing against people that dislike but I always wonder why they frown upon us gamers. It's not like we're doing drugs or anything. So I ask what do you do? "well...I watch movies". I say I watch movies too. whadeyathink? what are your encounters with people who ask you surprisingly if you play video games too?

[Lordstar]

computer games are just another type of media like Music or movies, Maybe its not there yet? I know people as a whole still think its just a kids toy or its just for geeks sitting alone in there rooms. Its one of the reasons why there is so much drama when some kid who plays halo blows away his familly with a shotgun. Becuause no kids toy is meant to do this to a young person. Not that a computer game alone can do that.
and the ratings are there for a reason.

[shinsage]

whoa amazing some people don't like the same things

[szycag]

What really goes on inside the minds of people that say they do not "like" knitting sweaters?

[sven666]

What really goes on inside the minds of people that say they do not "like" knitting sweaters?

..proboably..

[indstr]

http://onlyagame.typepad.com/only_a_gam ... asual.html

Surprise surprise, people have different gameplay needs ... And most of the high profile games being released are still catered to the hardcore gamer. It's uninteresting to a lot of people, and if they were to ever try get into videogames, they would need different kinds of games. This is not bad or something to be looked down upon (the whole "casual games suck" mentality), it's just different. It's not encroaching upon the hardcore games' market share, it's just expanding the market.

What I'm saying is, maybe the people who don't play games might enjoy casual games if they just gave them a chance. Or maybe they might enjoy other more open-ended things that we might consider "non-games"...

Unstructured play, if you will.

Perhaps?

[trivial]

meh wife likes crochet and non-casual games. not sweaters, those are for destroying.
it's a matter of how much attention she wants to give at the moment.

we both skip cutscenes and "strategy" when that means deliberation. sandbox = suck.

[indstr]

we both skip cutscenes

I used to watch cutscenes religiously as a kid, thinking that one day, a video game would have an epic and meaningful story. That day never came, so now I skip cutscenes like the plague. God damn, videogame writing is awful.

[captpain]

I think arcade games are fun for everybody... I mean, there are certainly a lot of people who wouldn't like them, but I can't think of anyone I know under the age of 60 in real life who wouldn't have fun popping a quarter in a Pac-Man machine, or even DonPachi for that matter!

[indstr]

I think arcade games are fun for everybody... I mean, there are certainly a lot of people who wouldn't like them, but I can't think of anyone I know under the age of 60 in real life who wouldn't have fun popping a quarter in a Pac-Man machine, or even DonPachi for that matter!

Are you serious????

Please read these articles -- http://blog.ihobo.com/2007/08/roger-caillois.html

Particularly it would be helpful if you read the one about "Agon", which is challenged based play. The kind of play you, and me, and everybody else on these forums enjoys. You will recognize a lot of yourself in the article. But it will also help you realize that there are other types of play that other types of people enjoy. Notice that there are three, completely separate types of play he speaks about - Alea, Mimicry, and Ilinx... All of which are completely valid types of play OTHER than challenged based, that games could possibly be based on -- and that other people enjoy.

People that enjoy nintendogs... I really would not go so far as to say they would also enjoy Dodonpachi.

I think understanding why people play games, and why there are different ways of playing, can help us understand why some people don't play games at all. And figure out how to design games that they would play

[trivial]

yay Caillois! College of Sociology > *

but the only ludology I want to read takes place before the Reagan administration and involves druggy girls.

[neorichieb1971]

Some people only play games if money is involved, or some other trophy or materialistic item is on the table. Basically, people need to gain to put the effort in. A basic videogamer usually wants to beat someone at something without getting his ass of the chair.

I would concur it is the interface people don't like, not exactly the games themselves. If you can relate to the game and controls immediately, you will want to play, simple as that.

[Ed Oscuro]

IRT topic:

Because they're frozen in a block of ice?

What really goes on inside the minds of people that say they do not "like" knitting sweaters?

It's much more fun to play with the string, if you're a cat. Mesmerizing anyway.

I bet that lots of people enjoy the skills it takes them to watch their soaps and figure out who shot J.R. (or Mr. Burns for that matter).

[captpain]

I think arcade games are fun for everybody... I mean, there are certainly a lot of people who wouldn't like them, but I can't think of anyone I know under the age of 60 in real life who wouldn't have fun popping a quarter in a Pac-Man machine, or even DonPachi for that matter!

Are you serious????

Please read these articles -- http://blog.ihobo.com/2007/08/roger-caillois.html

Particularly it would be helpful if you read the one about "Agon", which is challenged based play. The kind of play you, and me, and everybody else on these forums enjoys. You will recognize a lot of yourself in the article. But it will also help you realize that there are other types of play that other types of people enjoy. Notice that there are three, completely separate types of play he speaks about - Alea, Mimicry, and Ilinx... All of which are completely valid types of play OTHER than challenged based, that games could possibly be based on -- and that other people enjoy.

People that enjoy nintendogs... I really would not go so far as to say they would also enjoy Dodonpachi.

I think understanding why people play games, and why there are different ways of playing, can help us understand why some people don't play games at all. And figure out how to design games that they would play

I think you're confusing game enthusiasts with just regular people who could sit down at a cab and have fun for 15 minutes. I know basically everyone can just sit down and play arcade games and enjoy themselves in the right atmosphere.

Of course people aren't going to buy them or anything but the games are designed to be attractive for anyone to just laugh at and pop a quarter into.

[Elixir]

That doesn't make any fukking sense.

Yes it does. People who don't play video games aren't good at them. They want to spend their time with something that they're already average or fairly good at. For example, I can't be bothered using a stick because I'm more fluent with a pad. Same logic. I can't get into IIDX yet I like Pop'n. Same logic. A small amount of people can jump right in and be good at them (let's say, gifted people), and the majority need a fair deal of practice. I know a handful of people who are amazingly good at every single game they play - Megaman 9, IIDX, Puzzle Fighter, Bomberman, etc. But it's extremely rare.

Liking and disliking something, and being good or bad at something is the same logic. People want to stick to what they know and improve on it, over taking up new things, or at least that's the case for most people in most situations. This is basic logic. It makes total sense. If you can't see this then you are a fool.

[shinsage]

it's not about being good or bad at a game, it's about not liking the game itself or being into games at all.

[D]

That doesn't make any fukking sense.

Yes it does. People who don't play video games aren't good at them. They want to spend their time with something that they're already average or fairly good at. For example, I can't be bothered using a stick because I'm more fluent with a pad. Same logic. I can't get into IIDX yet I like Pop'n. Same logic. A small amount of people can jump right in and be good at them (let's say, gifted people), and the majority need a fair deal of practice. I know a handful of people who are amazingly good at every single game they play - Megaman 9, IIDX, Puzzle Fighter, Bomberman, etc. But it's extremely rare.

Liking and disliking something, and being good or bad at something is the same logic. People want to stick to what they know and improve on it, over taking up new things, or at least that's the case for most people in most situations. This is basic logic. It makes total sense. If you can't see this then you are a fool.

Well, I think it's only that these people 'think' they're not good at games. But perhaps they are if they would ever really sit down for a few minutes and focus a little bit. And why would you need to be good to enjoy games?
Well, this is my guess that these people are just like that. They would not waant to lose to someone else. They might feel inferior or even emberassed. Hell, maybe the thrash talk really got to them?
For me games are all about fun. It's nice to win, but only if it is a real challenge. Anyway, it's not bad that some people hate games, no problem at all, mo' fo' me! But I think alot of people do not get it (yet) and that it is all about having a little fun and not take gaming so serious. They are intimidated or something like that perhaps. The next time I will ask: you don't game? why? do you have epilepsy? Are you hands broken? bad eyesight?

[Elixir]

Well, I think it's only that these people 'think' they're not good at games. But perhaps they are if they would ever really sit down for a few minutes and focus a little bit. And why would you need to be good to enjoy games?
Well, this is my guess that these people are just like that. They would not waant to lose to someone else. They might feel inferior or even emberassed. Hell, maybe the thrash talk really got to them?
For me games are all about fun. It's nice to win, but only if it is a real challenge. Anyway, it's not bad that some people hate games, no problem at all, mo' fo' me! But I think alot of people do not get it (yet) and that it is all about having a little fun and not take gaming so serious. They are intimidated or something like that perhaps. The next time I will ask: you don't game? why? do you have epilepsy? Are you hands broken? bad eyesight?

They know it. It's a fact. People who do not play video games are not good at video games. You can't expect to be good at something unless you practice at it, but if they're interested, they'll check it out (thank you shinsage you basically just limited the entire gaming industry to a single game). I know I enjoy games I'm good at because I want to get better at them. I don't see why people have to be playing competitively in order to have fun, either.

Actually, this is me. I don't like competitive gaming all that much, although I do play stuff like TF2 and Bomberman. Fighters are fun to watch, but I can't get into them. Why? Because I suck at them and I don't use arcade sticks. This is more of a physical, fundamental issue I have with arcade gaming as a whole though. Everything's saying "hey, go for it"; there's an NZ fighting scene, a massive arcade with BlazBlue, SF4, TvC, almost all KoFs and previous SF games.. but I'm just not interested in fighters in a competitive sense.

Also, yeah. Trash talk gets to people, trust me. Usually it's just a bunch of guys having a laugh, but I can't stand it at all. It's just the little things that keep people away from the activity. I don't mind that people dislike, aren't interested in, or hate gaming. It's pointless to get worried over what other people think about your favorite stuff.

[indstr]

I think you guys are still thinking too much in terms of your peers. People in their 20's.

What of people in their 40's, 50's, 60's, who did not grow up with video games as a dominant cultural form of media? Most of these people simply have no interest in games at all. How do you convince them that they should try games?

[Taylor]

Get them a Wii?

[Elixir]

Get them a Wii?

There's a fine line between making games for casual gamers (see: Boom Blox, Wii Fit, Wii Sports) and making stuff that isn't even as good as Atari 2800 games (see: Ed the Samurai, Wii Babiez, My Horsez, well you get the idea). If you want to consider that gaming, then, by all means go ahead. I don't. I just call it this miraculous word called "shovelware", which mainly consist of developers attempting to cash in on this Wonderful Gaming Craze by making crap, hoping that people will lap it up.

Their logic is that if they make 8 (shovelware) games, and only 2 of them are successful, at least those 2 can fund the other 6 titles that they've made. I know my mother was interested in Wii Sports when she was accidentally dragged into the wobbling vortex which is my stomach in front of the tv, as she walked past. But that went on for 5 minutes and then she went on to something else. Even if she does play Super Granny, Rainbow Islands and Ms. Pacman.

I wonder how many parents, or people above 40 happen to still be interested in the Wii. Above temporary interest for the weird gimmick of throwing a controller around in front of a tv. I'm not going to get started too much on the Wii though, there's so much shovelware these days that it's almost uninviting because half of the console's library is a fucking scam.

[indstr]

I haven't actually played any of these non-games that you call "shovelware". But isn't it conceivable that they actually DO meet the play needs of their target audience? I don't know anything about "My Horsez", but it sure sounds a lot like Nintendogs, which last I checked was one of the best selling DS games. I seriously doubt it would be one of the best selling games if it didn't have some merit. Doesn't it make sense that 7 year old girls would enjoy something different (taking care of dogs) than 25 year old men would like (shooting at stuff)...

???

Most Nickelodeon and movie license games have no excuse though.

And I do know that the lady across the street from me has a Wii, and she's in her 50's. I'm not sure how regularly she's played it though as I've only been in her house once.

[Taylor]

I'm not a fan off the majority of Wii and DS titles either. However, there is no denying they are making a mint catering to the demographics this thread is about. You can argue this and that are not really games, but unfortunately the word 'game' (like 'casual' and 'hardcore') has an extremely vague definition. Certainly they aren't a stepping stone to Ninja Gaidens and DoDonPachis, it's a different audience that likes different things.

[Arvandor]

So then how come if you ask this board how good they are at shooters a decent majority of the answers will be along the lines of "I suck ass at them, but I still love 'em."

?

[Ed Oscuro]

Because it's true, at least in my case

You can argue this and that are not really games

o_@

[Elixir]

I haven't actually played any of these non-games that you call "shovelware". But isn't it conceivable that they actually DO meet the play needs of their target audience? I don't know anything about "My Horsez", but it sure sounds a lot like Nintendogs, which last I checked was one of the best selling DS games. I seriously doubt it would be one of the best selling games if it didn't have some merit. Doesn't it make sense that 7 year old girls would enjoy something different (taking care of dogs) than 25 year old men would like (shooting at stuff)...

I think you have, you just don't know it. It's a vague definition but since the Wii and DS, an influx of shovelware has risen. There's no denying it - unfortunately there's no List_Of_Wii_Shovelware on Wikipedia, but I'm tempted to make one. Off the top of my head, there's at least 5 companies who like to cash in with movie-to-game releases, and general crap. Activision, EA Games, 505 Game Street, D3 Publisher, and Ubisoft. If you check their releases on Gamefaqs, you'll bump into at least one or two right away.

Shovelware is crap regardless. I'm sorry if you've never played any, but it's been around since at least the early 90's. Aladdin, the Disney games, Cool Spot, and Goldeneye? Trying to cash in on a recently released movies or cartoons. But some of them struck it lucky and they happen to be amazing games. When I was 6, I didn't care that Aladdin was released on the Megadrive after the movie - the movie which I had never seen before - it was a fun game. I was casual about my gaming back then. I didn't have taste in games, I just enjoyed what I enjoyed. It wasn't until the late 90's in which I decided to become picky about what I want to play.

Sometime around 2002 I started seeing multi-platform releases of movie-to-game shovelware, and that's still happening. You would see a single movie based game released in different quality on the GBA, DS, PS2, 360, PS3, and Wii. The funny thing is that it's the same game, but entirely different on each platform. But movie-to-game based titles aren't necessarily what I was talking about. There's different kinds of shovelware. In Japan, shovelware is considered games released under the Simple Series; I've seen better doujin games. 505 Game Street have been releasing the Simple Series titles in Europe for years now. Their only successful titles are Oneechanbara and Earth Defense Force, sold on the two gimmicks of "half naked chicks with swords" and "gigantic ants".

So out of the 100+ Simple Series titles, only two of them really stand out. And what does that give them incentive to make? A fucking Oneechanbara MOVIE. Come ON. Look at the upcoming releases for Wii. Half of them are crap. Wall-E? Movie to game. Imagine Fashion Party? Shovelware in the highest form. Solitare & Mahjong? Get out. Tenchu? Oh, Tenchu looks like it'll be well done? Has there been a successful Tenchu game since the PS1? No. It's going to be trash. We Cheer? Don King Boxing? GREY'S ANATOMY? All of these games are going t be mediocre or simply horrible, I'm calling it right now. So, unless you have fun finding out "how bad" games are (perhaps you're icycalm in disguise or you really love half naked chicks with swords), avoid them like the plague.

Do I think shovelware is a good thing? No. People might think it's good for the DS and Wii to have a large library, but like I said, half of their library is a fucking scam. The Gamecube suffered the same fate, where a good game would arise every 4 or 6 months. The PSP is suffering the same fate, but it isn't clouded with shovelware, it's just.. slow. In fact, there hasn't been a worthwhile DS game since Chrono Trigger DS, released in November of last year.

Parents have no clue, dude. They'll buy this shit for their kids like they're still buying GTA and Saints Row for them. It's just going to get worse if Ubisoft and the others keep this up. You know, I used to think that they legitimately wanted Senko no Ronde in the US because of how it's a unique game, a cross between a shooter and a fighting game. Now I just think it's because it has ROBOTZ and Americans like FLASHY THINGS.

[Taylor]

Because it's true, at least in my case :lol:

You can argue this and that are not really games

o_@

But

[indstr]

Thread resurrection. I'm popping in to post an extremely relevant interview with Chris Bateman, tackling pretty much all the topics we have talked about here.

Very interesting, and very readable. Highly recommended to everyone on this forum

http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/interview ... s-bateman/

I probably will not be back to read comments because these forums started taking up too much time in my life again and I'm trying to cut them out (again). But happy reading!

[Ed Oscuro]

Wittgenstein spotted!