Why is the picture quality on HDTVs so bad?(I'm not kidding)

[Domino]

I would like to upgrade to a LCD but the problem is that I still use my Laserdiscs a lot (I like the format, DVDs are lame at times ). If I run the LD thru composite I know it will look like horseshit on LCDs.

I was thinking about buying a LCD monitior with HDMI inputs so I can run my DVD player via HDMI (for upscaling) and I have a XRGB2 for anything SD. Then again I herd that the XRGB2 are flicky with LCDs.

[worstplayer]

Worst math ever, seriously.

Bitrate/resolution ratio has never been linear, and the codecs used are different. That's why a DVD ISO and an HD rip floating over at torrent trackers weigh similarly.

Hell, you wouldn't even get the same picture with the same codec at different settings. Go to super-play.co.uk and see how many runs weigh over 300MB, yet look like they've been freshly crapped out. (For comparison, this is a good example of the opposite.)

Please don't use this argument in the future, it's misleading at the very best. :\

Yeah, I didn't know they can use different codecs.
But come on, those "HD" rips with same size as normal DVD rips? Did you try watching one? Even those "crapped out" videos from super-play put them to shame (As far as compression goes of course).

[moozooh]

Most of the 4-6GB HDrips that I've had (admittedly it's not too many, about a dozen perhaps) look flawless. I guess it might be due to preferring H.264 rips over XviD, since XviD is way less effective, especially at high resolutions. Also might be the problem of the guy who did the encoding, not all of them know how both to combine a good quality/size ratio together with good picture quality. It's actually pretty hard (always gets lots of time wasted in the process).

[jpj]

i miss you tagging your posts PCEFX

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I would like to upgrade to a LCD but the problem is that I still use my Laserdiscs a lot (I like the format, DVDs are lame at times ). If I run the LD thru composite I know it will look like horseshit on LCDs.

I was thinking about buying a LCD monitior with HDMI inputs so I can run my DVD player via HDMI (for upscaling) and I have a XRGB2 for anything SD. Then again I herd that the XRGB2 are flicky with LCDs.

For Domino,

If your SD monitor has S-Video input, you might want to take advantage of the crisper visuals afforded that video connection route (assuming if your LD player can output in S-Video). ^_~

Alright just for you, jpj, I'll tag my posts -- it's all done by hand anyways. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[antron]

TV stores often split one signal into dozens, and hence look like shit.


As for HDTV,
If you are a sports fan, the difference is obvious. There is no going back to SD. SD is shit. you cant see the puck. you can't see the cheerleaders pubic hair sticking out. and you can't buy it on DVD no matter how good your SD tv is.

[Davey]

I recently bought an HDTV. My TV usage is like this:

5% TV (all local network stations)
25% DVDs
70% Xbox 360

My previous set was a no-name brand CRT I bought on sale back in college, maybe 5 years ago. Here's what I've noticed:

TV: Anything broadcast in HD looks really great. I'm just using a regular, cheap-o indoor antenna. SD content looks like total shit, but pretty much everything I watch is prime time on Fox (720p) or NBC (1080i), so no big deal.
DVDs: They look decent, but not great. I know my receiver can upscale it to 720p or 1080i, but I haven't messed around with it yet because I can't find my remote.
Xbox 360: Looked ok at first, but I was using composite cables. Once my HDMI cables came in the mail, games looked incredible.

Basically:
HD on HDTV = way better than CRT
SD on HDTV = puke

[Domino]

I would like to upgrade to a LCD but the problem is that I still use my Laserdiscs a lot (I like the format, DVDs are lame at times ). If I run the LD thru composite I know it will look like horseshit on LCDs.

I was thinking about buying a LCD monitior with HDMI inputs so I can run my DVD player via HDMI (for upscaling) and I have a XRGB2 for anything SD. Then again I herd that the XRGB2 are flicky with LCDs.

For Domino,

If your SD monitor has S-Video input, you might want to take advantage of the crisper visuals afforded that video connection route (assuming if your LD player can output in S-Video). ^_~

Alright just for you, jpj, I'll tag my posts -- it's all done by hand anyways. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

My LD player can output in S-Video put the problem is that since LD is a composite format it would look better running it in composite.

[jonny5]

My LD player can output in S-Video put the problem is that since LD is a composite format it would look better running it in composite.

what? .....ummmmmm......huh?

[trivial]

LD is analog composite video. The only possible advantage of s-video is obviated if your TV has a decent comb filter.

[Ed Oscuro]

My LD player can output in S-Video put the problem is that since LD is a composite format it would look better running it in composite.

what? :? .....ummmmmm......huh?

Different varieties of composite, good ol' terminology confusion :p

Also, DVD uses hilariously outdated codecs, and I'm not sure what worstplayer's math was supposed to be proving. It was like

Maths!
Random conclusion is reached!

[Domino]

LD is analog composite video. The only possible advantage of s-video is obviated if your TV has a decent comb filter.

From what I heard only use S-Video if you are using a TV made in the early 90s that supports S-Video. If running this on a HDTV it's best to use composite since the comb filter is much better (running it via S-Video will cause the player to run its own outdated comb filter).

I run my LDs via the XRGB2 and running it in composite or in S-Video will look the same.

[D]

It's because people are morrons and do not set their tv's to optimal settings. And I am talking about non-hardcore consumers and sales people. These guys are dense and do not care about pq and also use whatever cable came with the thing they bought. If they have a displayed image they are happy. you tell them that different cables give better pq, but people do not care about this at all. They stretch the hekk out of 4:3 broadcasts which angers me so much. But that is just the downfall of mankind!
Go look on avforums, find the best (plasma) tv in your buying range, buy, go home, fiddle with it (the tv) and prepare to be amazed. Well if you use decent cable types that is. component, rgb SCART, hdmi/vga/dvi. Offcourse crt is better, but where can you buy a HD (ready) 50" crt?

[Kaiser]

Well question, i'm buying a HDTV soon, a Toshiba Regza will be good enough for PS3 and that next-gen stuff? I have a chance to buy 37" inch one in next 2-3 months because i saved up cash for it with brother and we're moving out to a larger apartment. 37XV550 model to be exact

[Udderdude]

I know exactly what the OP is talking about, I've been to Futureshop, etc. and seen 50' HDTVs on display running SDTV (NTSC 640x480) content. It looked god-awful.

You think they would just get some blu-ray players and hook those up to all of them. Some of them were running that, and it looked amazing.

[Turrican]

Thanks for dusting off the old crystal ball for us, O Magnificent Carnac. Smellovision's going to be a failure, huh?

I tend to agree that it's a good idea to hold onto an old-fashioned tube, the best that can be found. Won't last forever but hopefully it'll last long enough. Probably the future holds expensive upscalers for most of us, I'm afraid.

There's no need to be magicians, after all. It's a predictable reaction coming from any gamer who's in love with the videogames of his youth.

[Ceph]

I would imagine that for instance for laser TVs there will eventually be upscalers that "upscale" sdtv like that:

image line
blank (black) line
image line
blank (black) line
image line
etc.

Using this, the picture quality of SD sources should be similar to what it is on a real sdtv.

[moozooh]

2x scaling + 1/2 scanline insertion? That's possible on every display. Analogue displays do a similar thing natively, which is what allows them to display lower resolutions in fullscreen. The only question is, whether there will be the option to do that.

[jpj]

just buy a HD CRT
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-WS32Z40 ... B000FMRXPI

[system11]

watching tv at your friends house, i'm assuming you were watching a digital cable tv feed? if so, block noise from that source is a problem even with sdtv's. the cable companies are trying to push huge amounts of digital tv feeds down outdated lines, causing blockiness, frame drops, even blank screens.

We've got digital cable, this is exactly what's going on. The most telling thing is the 'main' channels have a MUCH better quality feed than smaller channels - some of which are borderline unwatchable. The PPV movie feeds are also better quality than the normal (subscription) movie channels.

None of them even come close to a good Blu-Ray player, with a good BR disc, on a good HDTV. Some of the stuff I have at home is stunning to watch, although you have to be wary of quick "HD" conversions of older material. Some of it looks better than it ever has, some is nothing but a dirty copy of the DVD, rescaled with a little noise reduction.

[D]

Anyway, this entire thread is false.
Its not guns that kill people, it's people that kill people
Its not bad hdtv's, it's people that set hdtv's badly!
And for reference and/or starting point I'm a fan of Panasonic plasma's. So start with that and I dare you to find something better than that. They're cheap also! Good luck!

[fd_analog]

Simple answer: nothing will ever beat a CRT, SD-def TV. End of story.

Exactly. I spent 8 years in R&D for a well respected Japanese electronics manufacturer. It's completely true.

[fd_analog]

HD on HDTV = way better than CRT

That is technically impossible.

[moozooh]

Also, nothing will ever beat VHS. That's a proven fact, because I spent 23 years in R&D for a major electronics manufacturer. Also, true.

[Ceph]

Hahaha.



"I believe in horses. The automobile is a transient phenomenon"- Wilhelm II, German Emperor, 1905



I seriously doubt that CRT is better than Laser TV (colors, contrast, sharpness, brightness).

[D]

I'm sure that a Pioneer Kura will almost if not beat a crt.
THE FUTURE IS NOW!
My panasonic plasma does not beat a crt, but it is close enough to not be anal about it, and I'm known for being anal about pq, aren't I?

Oh yeah and before I forget. Color tv sucks. I've got one of the best b&w tv's ever made. The Sony Bull-S-808. This screen has better contrast than any color tv can ever have. I watch blu rays on b&w now. color is so overrated. Stereo too. I listen to mono only. cheaper too, I only have to buy 1 speaker And the + side is that I never have to fiddle with the balance knob ever again.

[brokenhalo]

Also, nothing will ever beat VHS. That's a proven fact, because I spent 23 years in R&D for a major electronics manufacturer. Also, true.

fucking win.

[Ceph]

Pioneer Kura

You mean "kuro" (which is Japanese for black). Again, I'm certain that Laser TV is better than any plasma.

[D]

Pioneer Kura

You mean "kuro" (which is Japanese for black). Again, I'm certain that Laser TV is better.

yeah kuro, It probably is better, but laser tv is probably more expensive. Anyway, it's all about the people operating it. Do not expect the average person to optimize settings, they don't care!
When I bought my Sony 720p 50" lcd tv, the shop set the image quality to look like shit. I came home and turned sharpness from 100 to 0 and my smile was like this

[emphatic]

I did own a (rather cheap) 32" CRT, but as it did not have RGB or component inputs (only antenna/s-video/composit) I bought myself a Panasonic Plasma. Been happy with it from day 1. This probably has to do with:

* If I want to play games, I go to the other room and play on my cabinets 29" screens (4:3 = win)
* The only thing aired we ever watch on the plasma is the childrens shows (analogue cable TV, would look horrible on LCD)
* All movies/TV-Shows are watched in 720p from HDMI

Before I *upgraded* (as this thread clearly says that HD is bad) I connected my HTPC to the CRT using S-Video. Lots of interlacing/flickering going on, and 1024x768 stretched by the TV to 16:9, weak colors. The Plasma's colors/sharpness/contrast is extraordinary.

If you buy a plasma/LCD and only watch movies/tv-shows in hi-def, *you* won't miss the CRT unless you keep one next to your plasma at all times.