Your ideal vert shmup

John845 · Post by **John845** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:30 am

So say a company like Treasure or Cave decide that there next game will be a vert shmup. The budget they have is similar to a game like Gears of War 2 (millions of dollars). So pretty much any feature can be put into the game. So to sum it up, what kind of shmup would you like them to make? Something sort of like Ikaruga? Color switching mechanic, close quarter areas (stage 3 for example), constant chaining. Or something like Dodonpachi DOJ? Bullet hell, fast bullets, lots of enemies onscreen, loads of explosions. Or even Radiant Silvergun? Loads of bosses, great music and cool backgrounds.

For me, it would be a mix of numerous games. Ikaruga's art direction, Mushi style bullet hell (slow bullets), loads of bosses and long game length like RSG, lastly, Dodonpachi's onscreen enemy count, explosions graphics, and movement speed. It would be a dream to play such a game.

Any other ideas?

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:36 am

If Treasure were to work on Radiant Silvergun 3 (or Ikaruga 2: Project RS-3 if you will), they would incorporate new gameplay mechanics to match with their cool art astethics and overall design. When you stop to think about it, Treasure's only made two arcade shmup titles compared to some of the all-time arcade PCB developers like Cave and others like them. Still is regarded as a very exclusive game niche that are made by the fans for the fans. It's like this analogy: horror film makers make horror films for the fans...if you don't patronize them when they come out on the big screen, they won't make more. Simple concept right there. ^_~

Of course, with the Japanese, they love to incorporate such deep scoring systems, chaining systems, etc. to whet the ferocious appetite of the danmaku fans. Are there any more new ideas or concepts that can be applied to the danmaku genre or has it reached an unpentratable glass ceiling stalemate? Why not take a hefty sledehammer and try to break that so-called glass ceiling and see what happens? It would be quite interesting to sit in on a Cave staff roundtable and see what ideas are thrown around for it's latest arcade PCB offering. ^_~

When Cave was designing Progear No Arashi on the CPS2 arcade platform, they first tried it out as a vertical oriented game but it didn't work out. So their next option was to try it out in horizontal screen orientation. They said it was a very hard game to work out the kinks and all but they finally managed to pull it off. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:37 am

Cave already made Dodonpachi...

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:44 am

Your proposal that shmups even need multi-million dollar budgets is pretty much flawed. Shmups are one of the few genres that can still be made on a low budget and make up for that with interesting/unique game rules (scoring system, etc.) and interesting boss patterns. You don't need millions of dollars to make interesting bullet patterns.

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:28 am

John845 wrote: budget they have is similar to a game like Gears of War 2 (millions of dollars).

long game length like RSG,

when talking bout budget of games that spend 10-20 million to dev and another 10-20 to advertise I agree with Udderdude that that would be more than excessive.

regarding the long game length, I can't say that's a ideal for me. Playing a shmup that takes an hour to beat wears on my heart...

As far as elements in my ideal STG:

Multiple difficulty settings
At least a few ships to choose from
Uniqueness- Surprise me
explosions or blood

intimidating bosses
released stateside
addictive gameplay (excluding the scoring system)
scoring system that doesn't require a math degree when configuring your autofire settings...

For console versions:
Score Attack
Some sort of practice or simulation mode
give me an arrange mode
should be progressive scan or HD

a second soundtrack to pick from

I can't say what the ideal gameplay would be since I like a variety of styles and my preference really depends when you ask

Dragoforce · Post by **Dragoforce** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:36 am

Lolis! Lots of them!

Something with a little less complicated scoring system, like Espgaluda with Death smiles-like visuals. Perhaps with an added VS mode as well?

LtC · Post by **LtC** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:33 am

Ideal vertical shmup:

-Same amount of game content (Stages, weapons, modes, difficulties, secrets, ships etc.) as Tyrian.

-Level design and graphics by Cave in similiar to DOJ style

-Boss design by Siter Skain (I love Kamui and RefleX bosses)

-DoDonPachi scoring system.

-Soundtrack... can't think of anything myself, hur hur.

-Release for PC.

-Online play possibility plus online rankings.

John845 · Post by **John845** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:33 am

Coop online play on a bullet hell shooter I have yet to see, so that would be interesting. Also it would be nice to have Cave release one of there shooters on the PC platform.

atro_city · Post by **atro_city** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:54 am

Armed Police Batrider 2. Seriously, 18 ships and 18 bosses (coincidence?) alone gives Batrider a ton of replay value. If a sequel were to ever come out, I would have to say bye to all my free time.

orange · Post by **orange** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:00 am

so i'm thinking something like a cross between gradius 6, ketsui, and garegga

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:36 am

Make it ground-based and it's all good.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:37 am

I just want something along the lines of ESP Ra.de. Its tough, but its pretty, has a great sound track and there are only a few mechanics.

Why not make a 40 level game with only 3 lives instead of a stupidly hard game with 6 levels where you can't see the backgrounds half the time?

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:52 pm

agustusx wrote:
John845 wrote: budget they have is similar to a game like Gears of War 2 (millions of dollars).

long game length like RSG,

when talking bout budget of games that spend 10-20 million to dev and another 10-20 to advertise I agree with Udderdude that that would be more than excessive.

regarding the long game length, I can't say that's a ideal for me. Playing a shmup that takes an hour to beat wears on my heart...

As far as elements in my ideal STG:

Multiple difficulty settings
At least a few ships to choose from
Uniqueness- Surprise me
explosions or blood
intimidating bosses
released stateside
addictive gameplay (excluding the scoring system)
scoring system that doesn't require a math degree when configuring your autofire settings...

For console versions:
Score Attack
Some sort of practice or simulation mode
give me an arrange mode
should be progressive scan or HD
a second soundtrack to pick from

I can't say what the ideal gameplay would be since I like a variety of styles and my preference really depends when you ask

The Superplay of Radiant Silvergun done by Japanese SWY-WIZ ace shmup player clocks in at almost an hour of solid shmupping. ^_~

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:58 pm

galaga.. but you know.. in HD!

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:06 pm

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:The Superplay of Radiant Silvergun done by Japanese SWY-WIZ ace shmup player clocks in at almost an hour of solid boss milking. ^_~

Fixed. >_>

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:53 am

Undeadline, but prettier. And harder.

null1024 · Post by **null1024** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:23 am

Ok, here's my ultimate shmup:
4 player co-op [with mixed online and same machine players ala Halo]
Plays like a cross between Dangun Feveron and Ikaruga [which will probably be REALLY hard to pull off]
Practice mode for console version.
HUGE, HUGE, multi-part bosses. Think of every boss being like the final boss of most games [but easier], and having the final boss be beyond huge [I love boss fights, as long as they are interesting].
Extremely smooth and nice object and background models [Ikaruga, while not being extremely smooth, is a good example of having nice models].

And this will probably never exist.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:29 am

Hitogata Happa, which is already vertical and already forces you to suicide in order to kill bosses. Except with Ketsui's scoring system. Platine Dispositif would have to edit the dolls because as it stands, there's only a couple that are actually worth using. The difficulty is really accurate, and for the most part I wouldn't change much about Hitogata Happa, aside from trying to make it more enjoyable.

Platine games are a bitch to purchase, but I'm proud to own them.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:01 am

orange wrote:so i'm thinking something like a cross between gradius 6

So V-Five or that other Toaplan game (their first vert)?

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:45 am

Damocles wrote:Undeadline, but prettier. And harder.

I wouldn't mind that either.

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:04 am

Strikers 1945 2

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:20 pm

It would have to be "COMPILE" like in my humble opinion...maybe elements of RSG in terms of length and other features. Konami or Compile musics.

mirkvid · Post by **mirkvid** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:13 pm

atro_city wrote:Armed Police Batrider 2. Seriously, 18 ships and 18 bosses (coincidence?) alone gives Batrider a ton of replay value. If a sequel were to ever come out, I would have to say bye to all my free time.

seconded. APB is the perfect shmup for me.

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:20 pm

Dimahoo + Daifukkatsu + Touhou meets Power Instinct. Dahahahaha...

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:09 am

I would like a vert shmup where EVERY level contained back to back bits of these things, followed by a boss with many individual things to milk and shoot, and the ship would need weapons that shoot staright or wide and have extra power you have to save up for. And have every boss address you. All with an either dodonpachi or mars matrix style chaining thing going on.

1. Busy snipe section
2. dense slow section
3. fast collision section
4. super pocorn section
5. good aiming section (have to shoot just the right thing)
6. To many explosions section
7. overly pretty bullet pattern section
8. harmless super-scare section

Every level would need a GREAT set piece, like a rocket taking off, a waterfall vista, of a tank driving over something, huge airship, nuclear bomb landing, etc.

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:06 am

dpful wrote:I would like a vert shmup where EVERY level contained back to back bits of these things, followed by a boss with many individual things to milk and shoot, and the ship would need weapons that shoot staright or wide and have extra power you have to save up for. And have every boss address you. All with an either dodonpachi or mars matrix style chaining thing going on.

1. Busy snipe section
2. dense slow section
3. fast collision section
4. super pocorn section
5. good aiming section (have to shoot just the right thing)
6. To many explosions section
7. overly pretty bullet pattern section
8. harmless super-scare section

Every level would need a GREAT set piece, like a rocket taking off, a waterfall vista, of a tank driving over something, huge airship, nuclear bomb landing, etc.

If you try to please everyone, you'll end up pleasing no-one.

The great set piece thing isn't a bad idea though.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:44 am

ideal vert must include this feature:

-made by Compile

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:57 am

my dream vert would consist of the following:

- smooth graphics and stage designs i.e. Ikaruga
- firepower i.e. DDP meets Batsugun (rapid fire optional)
- loads of power-ups
- at least stages + addition final stage
- mini bosses half way in each stage
- soundtrack by Hyakutaro Tsukumo, Toshiharu Yamanishi, Tomomi Ohtani, Shinji Hosoe and Yasuhisa Watanabe

versionfiv · Post by **versionfiv** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:50 am

Turrican wrote:ideal vert must include this feature:

-made by Compile

I'm with you there...

clp · Post by **clp** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:22 pm

neorichieb1971 wrote:I just want something along the lines of ESP Ra.de. Its tough, but its pretty, has a great sound track and there are only a few mechanics.

Why not make a 40 level game with only 3 lives instead of a stupidly hard game with 6 levels where you can't see the backgrounds half the time?

because the first 35 levels would send you to sleep .

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Your ideal vert shmup

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