Extremely popular shmups you don't "get"

Dazzyman · Post by **Dazzyman** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:20 pm

Batsugun (have it on Saturn) I really cannot stand and the layer selections after that are the only shmups I can think of that I just refuse to play.

LSU · Post by **LSU** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:31 pm

In terms of just not being able to play something the way it's supposed to be played, definitely Psyvariar 2 for me. From watching replays, it looks like a great game. But I just find it near impossible to get into the right mindset to play it like that. Guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:55 pm

P_HAT wrote:
SFKhoa wrote:Any Psikyo game for me. :/
Even ZG2?

Even DB?

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:07 pm

moozooh wrote:
captpain wrote:I don't know if you're agreeing or what, but I can tell you it's not something you ever have to think about or deal with, and is in no way a focal point of the game.
It's not a focal point, sure, but the difference in bullet density can go almost twofold from lowest rank to highest. I mean it. I can't help but think about it when I realize it's becoming way too dangerous to try going through bullet streams on stage 5, and bombing galore it boecomes.

OK, well the game isn't meant for casual players who are going to find themselves at the lowest rank, and if you are scoring with any level of capability at all then the rank is going to be at its highest (aka the normal) level nearly all the time... excluding immediate post-death areas

1otherS · Post by **1otherS** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:22 pm

I don't like Donpachi for serious play-never got the hang of it.

I love Psikyo+Irem games and Batsugun+Layer Section.

spineshark · Post by **spineshark** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:44 pm

Gradius games, Mushi, DDP (which I play a lot anyway but am not too amazed by)

BulletMagnet wrote:
LtC wrote:It's even more bizzare than in Darius Gaiden where the game music sounds like porn music and you're killing lots of fish -_-;;
I'm no connoisseur, but you must watch some unusual porn.

hahahahaha

Chi_Ryu wrote:I guess Ibara is a bit like Marmite (UK reference, sorry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite) in that most people seem to either love it or hate it.

I'm always amazed by the number of strange British or Australian foods that are pulled out as analogies for "something people either love or hate."

sfried · Post by **sfried** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:31 am

Enhasa wrote:All I know is that Touhou fans are more annoying than Cave fans are more annoying than Treasure fans are more annoying than everyone else.

That, and I just don't understand the Touhou games themselves.

With each you level, you get a progressively different background, abeit the same fodder enemies with very little variation. Sure, the fullfilment seems to stem purely dodging bullets, but just purely dodging bullets? There's very little amount of mix'em'up with the game, and for what's in there apprears too superficially gimmiky (like the progressively limited field of vision in one of the bosses).

They're not bad games, but I get better kicks out of Trouble Witches than Touhou. Maybe I just really dislike purely loli-pandering games with very little gameplay justification.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:52 am

ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: 2.) Everyone else is jumping off bridges, so it's ok for me to do the same. (Also, Cave doesn't jump off bridges)

FIXED. You're welcome.

ChurchOfSolipsism · Post by **ChurchOfSolipsism** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:32 pm

Elixir wrote:
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:
Elixir wrote: How about you try making a better "monkey see, monkey do" analogy without declaring how much you're a racist? Toodles.
Is this worth talking about? Although I would like to hear what makes you think I am a racist... is it just sloppy thinking on your part or are you more of a simple nature? Those of your posts I have read so far make me believe it's the former...
No, I'm not simple minded or a sloppy thinker. Anyone who comes up with a racial analogy over a normal one is inadvertently being publicly racist for everyone else to see. Maybe you don't even know it yet. I've dealt with one whose "yet to come out". What, couldn't come up with a normal one? I know what you were trying to do, but it was poorly worded. If anything, you're the sloppy thinker for not being capable of proving a point without directing people's train of thought onto more pressing matters. Good job, it worked.

doctorx0079 wrote:
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: 2.) Everyone else is jumping off bridges, so it's ok for me to do the same. (Also, Cave doesn't jump off bridges)
FIXED. You're welcome.

I'm German, and I'm not even remotely as neurotic when it comes to race and shit. People, just relax. No one's trying to burn any Jews anymore, least of all us Germans.

cools · Post by **cools** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:04 pm

Zaxxon
Salamander
Ikaruga

brannon · Post by **brannon** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:40 am

spineshark wrote:I'm always amazed by the number of strange British or Australian foods that are pulled out as analogies for "something people either love or hate."

can you name one that isn't marmite or vegemite? :p

to rerail the thread (if that's even a word), i just cannot get into psikyo games that aren't zero gunner 2. i "get" them, i try playing them all the time, i just cannot overcome how utterly i suck at them. i think i'm just too used to playing raizing games where things are a bit more random and memorising every popcorn enemy on the stage is less important.

and while i'm on the subject of why having to memorise things sucks, ikaruga :[

Post by **Ghegs** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:42 am

brannon wrote:
spineshark wrote:I'm always amazed by the number of strange British or Australian foods that are pulled out as analogies for "something people either love or hate."
can you name one that isn't marmite or vegemite? :p

Mämmi.

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:46 am

i dont get the big deal about ibara. its basically a clone of battle garegga. Ibara was not too appealing to gameplay as the lolli's took much of the attention.

brannon · Post by **brannon** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:54 am

spineshark wrote:I'm always amazed by the number of strange British or Australian foods

Ghegs wrote:Mämmi.

:[

clp · Post by **clp** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:07 pm

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP wrote:i dont get the big deal about ibara. its basically a clone of battle garegga. Ibara was not too appealing to gameplay as the lolli's took much of the attention.

its basically NOT a clone of battle garegga , i play both a fair bit and never ever think hey this is just like garegga or vice versa , ibara is more a hybrid of garegga and bakraid with some of its own mechanics thrown in , seriously the play styles are not similar .

SpiffierRabbit · Post by **SpiffierRabbit** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:28 pm

Any of the Stirkers series, don't enjoy them as a shmup!
Layer Section or the Darius Series either!

spineshark · Post by **spineshark** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:46 pm

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP wrote:i dont get the big deal about ibara. its basically a clone of battle garegga. Ibara was not too appealing to gameplay as the lolli's took much of the attention.

The Roses are not lolis (except maybe Meidi, but even then that'd be singular). Scandalously attired, yes, but that's not related to whether or not they look like young girls.

clp wrote:its basically NOT a clone of battle garegga , i play both a fair bit and never ever think hey this is just like garegga or vice versa , ibara is more a hybrid of garegga and bakraid with some of its own mechanics thrown in , seriously the play styles are not similar .

Garegga : Ibara :: Gradius : Parodius

(OK technically Laserfight = Gradius but anyway)

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:47 am

While I like to think I "get" why any game would be liked by some people (go Ghegs's sig), I'll join in with the people who have been noting which games have more popularity outside the shmup community than inside it. Usually because such people get exposed to games in the genre only through other tacks.

Axelay (Nintendo Power had it on the SNES top 20, would not have had nearly the success on Genesis) and Einhander (it's Square) are perfect examples and have already been mentioned a lot. Aegis Wing is another simply because it's simple and free. Also Jets n Guns for Machinae Supremacy, Xenon 2 for Amiga folks, and Raptor and Tyrian for the old shareware days.

I think another good angle is all the freeware shooters that the indie crowd really likes for whatever dumb reason. Some people like Warning Forever here, but it is an genre classic elsewhere. Even more so with the follow-up game, Rayhound, which I've never seen anyone mention here. Same with Guxt (it's Pixel omg), and same with all the Cactus games. #1 though for me in this category though has to be Fraxy. I don't know anyone who isn't complete noobsauce who cares about this game, but somehow it is some kind of indie all-time great. I think it's the mere concept of the level editor + the fact that Something Awful members are all such incredible sheep. I don't really follow what these people think, but I'm sure you could go on tigsource or somewhere and find tons of examples.

The best example of a game that has a lot more popularity here than outside is Batrider. Generally, English-speaking Internet people who play any shmups, who don't belong to this site, only care about either indie/doujin games (mostly Touhou), lots of Cave if they are wapanese, possibly Treasure, or possibly games on Sega consoles or TG16 (includes developers like Compile, Tecnosoft, and GRev). Since the big three are generally considered to be Cave, Raizing, and Psikyo, this means games from the last 2 are generally unknown.

brannon · Post by **brannon** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:24 am

Enhasa wrote:Axelay (Nintendo Power had it on the SNES top 20, would not have had nearly the success on Genesis)

it would have had much better music though :[

i must say i love warning forever in spite of how dumb the scoring system is; it makes you think it's all about getting big chain bonuses, then you watch a replay of a super high score and the player will totally ignore chains and go solely for speed. i think the idea is that it's supposed to be a balance between going for big chains and not running out of time, but it clearly needs some tweaking to make it actually work properly. or maybe i'm just not paying enough attention, which is probably quite likely. with all that said, it feels wonderfully slick and polished, and is a perfect example of something that you can pick up and have fun with for ten minutes when you're bored without having to go trawling through forum threads to be able to start playing it properly. as incredible as batrider is, i've probably spent more time reading about it than i have actually playing it, which i'd imagine most people wouldn't have the patience to do.

most of the other indie shmups are only really fun for a couple of credits, though, and don't really deserve the fan following they get. the only other two i enjoy are noiz2sa, which most people seem to pass over in favour of rRootage, and torus trooper, which very few people seem to actually get at all. i wouldn't say any of them have any real depth to them, though.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:31 pm

ROBOTRON wrote:
Ikaruga...after loving RSG I thought this game was going to rock...i don't like it, nice concept, poor execution.

I don't think the execution is poor, I just think the concept gets boring after ten minutes, and frustrating ten minutes later.
Regardless, I also feel Ikaruga ain't as great as they say.

Never really 'got' R-Type (I like Leo greatly though), and I find Pulstar and Blazing Star to be equally boring.

KindGrind · Post by **KindGrind** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:11 pm

I don't get the love for R-Type either. I mean, can you think of a cheaper game to play, especially the frst time through? Also... Gradius doesn't cut it for me either for pretty much the same reasons. Sacrilegeous as it may seem, I prefer the Darius series to the two I just mentioned.

I understand people don't get into Silvergun and Ikaruga, as these require lots of memorization and repeated practice as well. While I like Iky better, I'm always amazed everytime I play RSG, which is about once a year. I did put 100+ hours into it in the past at some point, so when I pick it up to play I can do pretty well, so maybe that explains why I like it quite a bit.

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:36 pm

I actually like Kenta Cho games, they're simple but fun with good presentation, and I think they are pretty well respected here. I like parsec47 the most, I know others like noiz2sa. Me and stanski love Torus Trooper and we seem to be the only ones, but the pure speed makes it pretty fun. rRootage is a very good pick-up-and-play game for learning bullet hells, and also once you're better at it, you can use -nowait option to remove all the slowdown. Really, most of his games are decent and usually well-thought-out, including the non-shmups. They're good games to play late at night when you're really tired and wouldn't be able to handle something more complicated.

Avist Torch · Post by **Avist Torch** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:24 pm

To me, PARSEC47 and rRootage have the problem of ridiculous momvent speeds and even more ridiculous slowdown at heavier patterns (it's not the fact that there's slowdown that's a problem; it just that it's horribly implemented). I didn't know about the no-slowdown option, though.

Torus Trooper is entertaining enough, but not particularly engaging.

zSection · Post by **zSection** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:13 am

I don't get mushihimesama on the PS2

I finished it on my 3rd attempt with 2 lives remaining. Way too short, Is this actually popular? I used the 2nd choice, the red weapon

bucklemyshoe · Post by **bucklemyshoe** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:33 am

Raiden 3

the game was just boring.

shikigami no shiro II

i want to like this game but i can't. the enemy placement really bothers me.

corbie · Post by **corbie** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:56 am

Any Gradius game. I hate the entire series. I have yet to play a Gradius game that I could stick with for more than 5 minutes. It's probably the only shooter series I can think of that I just absolutely despise. And Radiant Silvergun is another popular shooter that I find far too slow-paced for my own personal tastes.

Rozyrg · Post by **Rozyrg** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:46 am

Psyvariar 2 for me, too. Don't get it and don't have a clue what's going on.

Most 'bullet hell' shooters don't really appeal to me anyways, though.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:12 am

Galaga.

I'm bored with it. I can't play it any more. I can still play Ms. Pac-Man and have fun but not Galaga. And this is coming from a guy who still plays 1942 occasionally.

Also I hope you guys aren't still playing Star Force. Star Soldier is way better.

I don't remember Zanac being so great. But it's been a couple years.

zaphod · Post by **zaphod** » Thu May 12, 2011 9:14 am

KindGrind wrote:I don't get the love for R-Type either. I mean, can you think of a cheaper game to play, especially the frst time through?

Actually, the original arcade r-type was very much not cheap. level 4 in particular is designed so that you will not be against the back of the screen when the first one comes from behind, and you won't be near the edge when the first few enemies fly in from it. the last enemy before the boss is$ a BIG hint that the boss will enter from the rear. and besides, the game already taught you in level 3 that you need to enter the right half of the screen. instead of "now how was i supposed to dodge that?" the reaction is more like "oh crap! i need to move! Whew! I'll remember that next time."

Later games, since they are for consoles, do not have that same fine balance. People think that because people aren't dropping in quarters to play that gives them a license to throw in cheap shots and have places that death is essentially unavoidable if you haven't seen it before.

ChainsawGuitarSP · Post by **ChainsawGuitarSP** » Thu May 12, 2011 9:58 am

I don't get why Raiden is considered so influential to the genre given that it was just a rip off of Twin Cobra.

What I really don't get though is the whole concept of Parodius. I mean, wasn't Gradius already a decidedly non-serious series to begin with? there are way too many running jokes to make me think otherwise...

Also, R-Type isn't "cheap". Hell, Super R-Type is kind enough to set you back at the beginning of each stage upon death to avoid any recovery-related issues! other developers should take note of this~

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Extremely popular shmups you don't "get"

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Re: Extremely popular shmups you don't "get"