Treasure say YES, dammit... (RS)

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:27 pm

Udderdude wrote:
lawnspic wrote:Also i wonder if a 360 or PS3 could run it under emulation like SSF. It would be very demanding on system resourses.
I don't think SSF is stable enough for something like this. It would also have to be pretty much rewritten for the PS3.

SSF runs RSG perfectly on a decent PC. In fact, it has run every Saturn game perfectly that I've thrown at it.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:07 am

Udderdude wrote:
Elixir wrote:
Udderdude wrote: Because it costs almost nothing to put games on there (compared to a retail release) and they can just pull it if it doesn't sell.
Bullshit, it cost the N+ team something like 120 grand to get their XBLA release.
I'd like to hear the story behind this one, and the N+ team spending a shitload of money isn't the same as MS doing the same.

I couldn't find it, but there's this:

http://www.kotaku.com.au/games/2008/08/ ... aid-2.html
(Apologies for the kotaku link)

Which is even higher. No, you can't just throw anything on XBLA, it costs a fuckton and there's little guarantee that it'll sell well at all. Basically, it's a gamble.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:12 am

John845 wrote:
sven666 wrote:man RSG is already ported to a console, get to doing something new instead i say!
The Sega Saturn? A system that not many people own and the port was in 1998.

yeah i know.. thats what cleopatra played in her palace...

man i will never get into this generation of consoles, its all about downloads and re-released games ive already played for decades, everything i dont want in a new console

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:22 am

bcass wrote: SSF runs RSG perfectly on a decent PC. In fact, it has run every Saturn game perfectly that I've thrown at it.

I had to set it to frame skip of 1, and I'm on a 3Ghz something rather. Not the latest and greatest, but it's at least decent.

its all about downloads and re-released games

Don't forget the bad games.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:50 am

Maybe you need a multi-core PC then, it runs perfectly on my intel quad core. I was literally amazed at how good this emulator was when I first ran it on my new PC.

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:07 am

Yeah, my P4 2.8 cant run it worth shit. I tried it in my wife's AMD 64 bit dual core and it runs perfect using the highest settings. Actually it runs much smoother with the settings set at max (if your computer can handle it) i quess because on the lower settings it skipping frames to keep the speed up on slower CPU's. I think it still runs a little too fast compared to the Saturn version, then again i did not touch any settings manually.

If the 360 and PS3's have multi core CPU's i guess there should be no issue, unless memory is not enough. Mind you im running SSF with 2 gigs of dual channel ram on my wife's laptop and that nothing by today's standards.

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:28 am

unfortunately the xbox360 does not use typical logical processors that your pc does. If i remember correctly the xbox360 is a triple processor each core 3ghz, however each core is not as intelligent as a single 3 ghz processor on the pc. either way, I have a dual 2.6ghz pc to run RSG, it could not run for crap on a single 3000+ amd. I think it would take a considerable amount of work to get it over to the xbox360, so I do understand treasures reservation.

if they took 2 years to port ikaruga which came from a less complicated naomi/dreamcast hardware, porting from the messed up stv/saturn hardware would be a pain.

I do sympathize with the preservation and porting of classic games on current hardware, especially when the games have never made it stateside. I have refused for 8+ years to pay $200+ USD for a copy on ebay.

I am sure that when Treasure ports games they want to make the smallest detail perfect to the original. Frankly most would never notice since they have either never played the game, or have played it on emulation. I think that a less than perfect, yet still highly playable release would be reasonable cost effective to produce.

2 years of porting RSG would indeed be a waste, and could be spent on developing new IP. if it only took the 6 months original slated for ikaruga, I would wait patiently:)

John845 · Post by **John845** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:41 am

Eh, I take those "2 years" that was said with a grain of salt. I'm no software engineer by any means, but 2 entire years to port a game sounds a bit ridiculous to me. Bioshock which is a massive game in scale, took only a year to port to the PS3 from the 360. So who knows what can happen...

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:57 am

Microsoft's submission process for XBLA titles can be quite protracted and I'm sure that had a lot to do with the time it took to get it onto the service. Even after that, you're still at the mercy of Microsoft as it is them who decide when games get released. I doubt it would take a small team more than 12 months to convert these types of games.

Zeether · Post by **Zeether** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:05 pm

It would be interesting if they added an English voicetrack for the story mode...

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:49 pm

bcass wrote:
J-Manic wrote:Fuck all this talk about a XBLA version. I want a Treasure Collection pack on the PS2 or PS3.
Did you not read the interview at gamasutra? Doesn't look like Treasure will be touching the PS3 any time soon.

Yup. I read it, dick. Doesn't mean I can't dream.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:26 am

J-Manic wrote:
bcass wrote:
J-Manic wrote:Fuck all this talk about a XBLA version. I want a Treasure Collection pack on the PS2 or PS3.
Did you not read the interview at gamasutra? Doesn't look like Treasure will be touching the PS3 any time soon.
Yup. I read it, dick. Doesn't mean I can't dream.

What are you name-calling for? Given that the PS3 is in last place sales-wise, the added complexity of developing on that system, the fact that Treasure are only a very small company, and that they already have experience of developing on the 360, I think it will likely always be a pipedream.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:02 am

I don't think he meant any offense, just kind of a "don't kill my utterly impossible dreams! I like it here!" sentiment, coarse as it is.

kozo · Post by **kozo** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:02 pm

BulletMagnet wrote:I don't think he meant any offense, just kind of a "don't kill my utterly impossible dreams! I like it here!" sentiment, coarse as it is.

I agree. Check the sunglasses - the all powerful smiley. Softening the harsh climate of the interwebs since 1982.

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:20 pm

Yup. BulletMagnet and kozo know how I feel.

I wasn't being serious at all, bcass, except for the "Fuck all this talk about a XBLA version. I want a Treasure Collection pack on the PS2 or PS3" part.

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:52 am

Forget of Microsoft and the original RS.

Project RS-3 for the PC and Xbox 4 all the way!

...

Nah, kidding, don't take things so seriously. But seems to imply the final draft for the game is finished? If so, yes, forget of this as they would be focusing on "Project RS-3", right?

「Project RS-3」の企画草案は出来上がっているとか

01月06日付けの井内氏の日記より。
開発時期も、リリース方法もこだわっていないそうな。

Translation, please? I don't trust Google:

2009/01/06

さて、数年前までシューティングをメインに作っていた人間が、もう外注としてのお手伝いだけで、シューティングを作らないのか？と思われているかもしれませんが、決してそういうつもりではありません。かつて、私の中でProject RS-3（ある種、片方のRS-3）であった物も、すでに何年も前から企画草案は出来上がっていることも事実です。

ただ、私としては、まったく焦ってはいません。もし作ることがあるのならば、その時期が来た時に作れば良いと思っています。リリース方法も「同人」から「メーカー商品」に至るまで、一つではありませんし、のんびりしていたら市場が無くなるとも思っていません。

もちろん、シューティングを作る事は、言うほど簡単ではありません。隙間産業の１つぐらいに捉えて、安易に手を出すと思わぬしっぺ返しを食らいます。作り手として、しっかりした作品を作るには、ある種の「犠牲心」や実質的な「ボランティアのような行為」が必要になるのですが、それはなかなか周囲に理解され難いものです。ですから、その苦汁を舐める覚悟が無ければ作らない方がいいのでしょう。
そうやって、体を壊していれば世話が無いと言われたら、返す言葉もありませんし・・・・・

だから、今は色々なタイトルに関わって、感性の幅を広げるのも良い事かな？という気もしているのです。

http://www.vgmaterials.com/notebook.html

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:15 am

lilmanjs wrote:
Elixir wrote:Radiant Silvergun's overrated, download it play it get over it and move on.
I love the game, but if it comes to xbox live I'd be sad. its way better than that

translation: I like my collector market value

null1024 · Post by **null1024** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:23 am

Observer wrote:Forget of Microsoft and the original RS.

Project RS-3 for the PC and Xbox 4 all the way!

...

Nah, kidding, don't take things so seriously. But seems to imply the final draft for the game is finished? If so, yes, forget of this as they would be focusing on "Project RS-3", right?

*snip*

http://www.vgmaterials.com/notebook.html

Hmmm. I trust Google Translator... but I'm still not sure if it says what I think it says... if it does, I just came, if not, false alarm.

dcharlie · Post by **dcharlie** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:26 am

Project RS-3 has been known about for a while, there was a horrid moment where it was reported that the game was "on hold" whilst they concentrated on Sin and Punishment 2 for the Wii, but it sounds like the RS-3 is back in the frame.

unfortunately the xbox360 does not use typical logical processors that your pc does. If i remember correctly the xbox360 is a triple processor each core 3ghz, however each core is not as intelligent as a single 3 ghz processor on the pc. either way, I have a dual 2.6ghz pc to run RSG, it could not run for crap on a single 3000+ amd. I think it would take a considerable amount of work to get it over to the xbox360, so I do understand treasures reservation.

yeah, they'd need to recode it to run threaded, but that's if they chose to emulate. Though i'd have thought the effort to port it would have still been fairly substantial. A well coded for program for symetrical triple core CPU should produce better results than an in line single core processor , but yes, it's all how comes down to coding effort. It'll all come down to costs and if i was Tresure, i'd do it on the proviso that MS cover a baseline number of sales that is above the dev costs.

Or , as mentioned before, ask them for coding resources from MS's now mostly dormant inhouse JPN pool.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:02 am

People are forgetting that Treasure already have a competent 3D engine running perfectly on the 360 that is technically way beyond the capabilities of anything seen in the Saturn version of RSG. Sure, it would probably require recoding for RSG but it's not like they have to start from scratch.

Afterbirth · Post by **Afterbirth** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:40 pm

Yeah, thats true. I think drawing the graphics and zany backgrounds would be simple but I suspect the real issues would be the timing of the AI.

IIRC its VERY precise for scoring purposes. Theres very little popcorn.
Even that wouldn't probably take too long though.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:43 am

I'm pretty sure they'd have access to the timings in the old code. I'd be amazed if a company as meticulous as Treasure didn't have access to their own source code. Even if they didn't, the people who made RSG are still working at Treasure so they'd know what to look for if some degree of reverse engineering was required.

gray117 · Post by **gray117** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:09 pm

vaguaries of translation and sources and egos aside ... I really don't think the issue is technical, they're design and personal interests in rsg combined with an overall company vision ... rsg just doesn't seem to fit in that ... (now... everr again? ... who knows..) ... but hey its nice rsg is so important that its still discussed...

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:11 pm

I disagree. I think it's purely down to how much Ikaruga sold on XBLA. That game may have made a profit (not surprising since it was just one person responsible for the port). The platform just isn't big enough to support a project of that size for a company as small as Treasure. Most of the upper-end sales on XBLA only amount to 200,000 or so. Not a particularly inviting prospect for a small company who would have to invest a small team into the project for 12 months or so.

lilmanjs · Post by **lilmanjs** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:38 pm

the problem with the downloading services is that most people think a game you download is a cheaply made game and not worth the time. like my sister wanted to get Ikaruga for her 360 but thought it would be a short shooter and cheaply made since it was for download. thank god there was a dreamcast port I could show her.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:07 am

Why didn't you get her to download the demo? All XBLA releases have downloadable demos. In Ikaruga's casse, the demo consists of stage 1.

lilmanjs · Post by **lilmanjs** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:43 pm

bcass wrote:Why didn't you get her to download the demo? All XBLA releases have downloadable demos. In Ikaruga's casse, the demo consists of stage 1.

why should I get her to download the demo of a game she can try the full version of.

John845 · Post by **John845** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:34 pm

I think a lot of speculation goes on in here. Treasure is a small company, I'll give it that, but the whole talk of, "Treasure doesn't have the resources" or "Saturn porting is so hard". Do we really know these things? It almost seems like half the people here don't want RSG ported, for some absurd reason.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:12 pm

John845 wrote:It almost seems like half the people here don't want RSG ported, for some absurd reason.

I don't think many people (if any) are against the idea of a port, but past experience has taught many of us that there tend to be many roadblocks between us and the games we play - I'd say taking into consideration what might prevent this from happening is preferable to getting super-hyped over vague hints in a certain direction and likely being disappointed later, but that's just my take.

Afterbirth · Post by **Afterbirth** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:54 am

I find it intresting that according to VG, sales of RS were 300,000 or so, yet Ikaruga (if their site is correct) sales don't even register.

Which makes me wonder if it really is about sales rather then the dated graphics issues cited in the interview.
Or if the site is wrong.