Ketsui X and Daioujou Black Label X - Ports for Xbox 360

antron · Post by **antron** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:07 pm

unless MS gave them a boatload of cash to do it.

hovis · Post by **hovis** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:13 pm

I doubt it because Microsoft's entertainment division has had to cut back on the amount of money it's been spending, so i can't see them wasting any on what amounts to obscure Japanese shmups that hardly anybody cares about. It will have been a choice by 5PB themselves i imagine, unless there was a deal made a really long time ago (which might be the case considering that they were due to be released Summer 08.)

It's still absurd though, somebody really needs to let them know that releasing these games on the 360 currently is basicly the dumbest thing they could do.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:34 pm

What do you suggest 5pb do? Release them on the underpowered Wii, or release them on the difficult to program for PS3? They were originally planned as XBLA titles, but that idea was rejected, so this is their only other option.

hovis · Post by **hovis** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:42 pm

The Wii is roughly twice as powerful as the Gamecube, which was already a little bit more powerful than the PS2 which ran other Cave shmups fine (as far as i know?). I mean these games aren't Gears of War/Killzone 2 what makes you think the Wii couldn't handle them?

Likewise pretty much every single developer who's worth anything got a grasp on programming for the PS3 about a year ago so that's not really a valid point either. Especially when you consider the sales/profit they're missing out on i mean, common sense and all kinda dictates what their best options would be.

I mean yeah if these were region-free XBLA titles then yeah that would be great but they're not. I'm more concerned with being able to play these games than championing the Xbox 360 and unless 5PB were silly enough to sign an exclusivity deal then releasing these titles as region locked Japanese-only Xbox 360 retail games was not their only other option at all.

RackGaki · Post by **RackGaki** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:16 pm

5pb isn't among those developers, for better or worse. If it takes them one month and twenty thousand dollars to learn a system, it's still too long and too much for a developer their size. Sure, I pulled those numbers out of my ass, but the point is that they don't want to waste any resources that they do not have to.

Personally, I don't think it would have made much difference if 5pb released their ports on the Wii, but the 360 is a better choice for being overpowered and with good arcade sticks available.

All in all, STG's don't make huge profit margins.

antron · Post by **antron** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:20 pm

Elixir wrote: difficult to program for PS3?

this is nonsense, one dude wrote Everyday Shooter.

he says so here:
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/ ... rview.aspx

You're the quintessential one-man garage band game creator, while Playstation 3 is supposed to be incredibly hard to program for. Were you nervous about moving development of EveryDay Shooter from PC/Mac/Linux to Playstation 3? How long did it take you to get the game up and running on the PS3, and what kind of help did Sony provide?

It's only incredibly hard if you're trying to emulate life. This bugs me a lot. The technology in EveryDay Shooter is old. The collision systems are based on algorithms from the 90s, and the graphics/sound technology is based on techniques from years ago. But those technologies/techniques are still incredibly powerful/expressive! I can't understand why people don't use it more often. It's like they're substituting technology for creativity.

hovis · Post by **hovis** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:30 pm

Yeah, deffo pulled those numbers out of your ass. The PS3 and Wii have good arcade sticks also. I mean really if you're a fan of Cave games why would you seriously think releasing them on the Xbox 360 in Japan is a good idea? Don't you want to play them? Or have anyone else play them? I mean considering how long the games have been delayed on the 360 you could argue that their choice of that as the console has proved to be too long and too much for a developer of their size like you said. They've probably spent much more money than they had to by ditching the XBLA releases and being forced into retail releases, then having more delays. Alternately had this been for the PSN then they probably would have been released back in the summer when they were ready. Likewise had they been released for the Wii at least that console has workarounds to play region-locked games.

I mean i suppose if the only console you own is a 360 or you're a fanboy then yeah i guess you'd wanna make excuses for it being a 360-only game. But those of us who own a 360 and other consoles can look at it objectively and think, "Wait, no, Japanese-only 360 retail release is really stupid". I mean personally i just wanna play the games so..

hovis · Post by **hovis** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:33 pm

The whole "PS3 is difficult to program for" thing came about from developers creating games for the Xbox 360 and then porting them to the PS3, the different architecture between the 2 consoles made porting difficult, which is why now the big publishers like EA and Ubisoft make most games on PS3 and then port to 360, because it's easier to do things that way.

In the case of games like this the whole "Oh it's too difficult to make for the PS3!" is quite frankly, completely and utterly wrong in just about every single regard.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:14 pm

It's excruciating to watch someone act so butthurt over these titles being region locked. The 360 has a proper arcade stick too, so I don't know why anyone would ever consider bringing that argument into the picture. Hell, you can even use a Saturn controller via a (expensive) adapter. It's tedious but it works.

Anyway I've wasted enough time defending these games. Have fun whining about 5pb and Cave's decisions, I guess.

hovis · Post by **hovis** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:32 pm

RackGaki mentioned arcade sticks on 360, i was just pointing out how the Wii and PS3 have arcade sticks too.

I don't understand how this equates to whining and being butthurt though, i'm a fan of Cave games who would like to play them. My original post was enquiring about the possibility of these games coming to other systems. I don't see why you'd get upset over that unless you're just an Xbox fanboy? I mean i own a 360 myself but i'm more interested in playing the games than trying to make up silly counter arguements when someone points out how their choice of platform/release for these games isn't the best of ideas. I just think that since these games are region locked it would have been better for both them as a company and the fans if they released the games on a different platform.

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:46 pm

Jesus Christ. Do we have to go through this same shit every fucking week?

sideshow · Post by **sideshow** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:06 pm

I bit the bullet and bought a japanese 360 and a assload of more people will be forced too also once Ketsui gets ported.

rancid3000 · Post by **rancid3000** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:34 pm

sideshow wrote:I bit the bullet and bought a japanese 360 and a assload of more people will be forced too also once Ketsui gets ported.

I'll be doing the same. I already have my US xbox, got a good black Friday deal.

One bad thing about that is that Final Fantasy XIII will not be released on the Japanese 360 and it will be region locked to the US. It will be a PS3 exclusive in Japan. So I'm going to be searching like crazy for the cheapest Japanese 360 I can find until the games come out. Must... play... Ketsui!

PepsimanVsJoe · Post by **PepsimanVsJoe** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:21 pm

If it's about sales I really don't understand the problem. Otomedius posted incredible numbers(for a niche genre) and handily trounced TF6 which had the benefit of a much larger userbase. Also in Japan Shiki 3 sold way more copies of the 360 version than the Wii.

Face it, the 360 is where the shooter market is and considering how niche it is shooter devs(who make most of their money in the arcades anyway) don't really see the point in moving to another system.

originalz · Post by **originalz** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:54 am

PepsimanVsJoe wrote:If it's about sales I really don't understand the problem. Otomedius posted incredible numbers(for a niche genre) and handily trounced TF6 which had the benefit of a much larger userbase. Also in Japan Shiki 3 sold way more copies of the 360 version than the Wii.

Face it, the 360 is where the shooter market is and considering how niche it is shooter devs(who make most of their money in the arcades anyway) don't really see the point in moving to another system.

This is what people are not paying attention to.

In Japan, the 360 is no mainstream success at all, but it is very, very popular with hardcore niche gamers. In 2ch threads, you'll see many hardcore gamers bash the PS3 and praise the 360's Japanese-focused game libraries. This niche of hardcore gamers are the ones who like shooters and other niche titles. They already bought the system for games like Raiden and future promise of other titles.

It's not necessary to port these games to other systems, the hardcore shooting fans already own a 360 and will buy the game. Wii has proven itself to be a miss for shooters, with poor sales of Shikigami 3 and the Milestone collection. PS3 is more complex to develop for and has higher development costs, this has been echoed by many people unless they are supported by Sony which I doubt these niche publishers are. If they put shooters out on the PS3, it just splits the userbase and pisses everyone off. PS3 exclusive shooters won't sell well because all the fans are already on the 360, potential is lost. Putting it on both systems increases development costs and I highly doubt sales will increase enough to make up for the extra costs. 360 is cheap to develop for, is the cheaper system to buy (so it's a more attractive offer to the fans), and so far the games have sold well enough. Everyone wins, except importers, but if they're hardcore enough they'll just buy a J360.

The PS3 just isn't the system for shooters this gen, the faster you accept this then the better you'll feel. Publishers aren't stupid, it's not like they just rolled some dice and decided the system based on that, they've done their research and know which platform is the best choice for their needs.

sideshow · Post by **sideshow** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:07 am

What hurts the PS3 is the expensive blu ray technology that developers are forced to put the PS3 titles on even if those titles dont need that space. I'll be suprised if and when a disc based shmup comes out for the PS3.

msm · Post by **msm** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:20 pm

"Thank you for shopping with YesAsia.com!

With reference to the following item 'DoDonPachi Daioujou Black Label Extra (Japan Version)' in your order xxxxxx, the expected ship out date has been revised to Jun/30/2009."

hope the 'u' is supposed to be an 'a'

also, everyday sooter is great and all but i don't think you can use it as an example of general ps3 development, it's very basic even compared to old cave games

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:47 pm

is this ibara kuro trailer old news

looks like a step up from ibara!

gamingjustin · Post by **gamingjustin** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:09 pm

It's most certainly a step up if you dislike Ibara, because that's definitely a trailer for Dodonpachi Daiojou BLE! It would be neat if Ibara Kuro was coming to 360 but... It's not as far as I know. I have no clue how Gametrailers messed up the name.

antron · Post by **antron** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:17 pm

msm wrote: also, everyday sooter is great and all but i don't think you can use it as an example of general ps3 development, it's very basic even compared to old cave games

my sub Ghz pentium III emulates old cave games fine. (the PC system requirements for Everyday Shooter is 1.7 Ghz)

and the newer PCB are the size of a small notepad. how much could it possibly take to run that? the PS3 could probably emulate it fully in the CPU.

I'm, not complaining. I've got my NTSC-J 360.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:00 pm

msm wrote: hope the 'u' is supposed to be an 'a'

YesAsia's product page does indeed show the release date set for June - P-A still has it listed as "Q1." Guess we'll have to wait and see which one turns out to be correct...weirdly, P-A has moved Ketsui's release date to "TBA", while YA still has it at the end of January. I honestly wonder if anyone has any idea what's going on, heh heh.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:00 pm

gamingjustin wrote:It's most certainly a step up if you dislike Ibara, because that's definitely a trailer for Dodonpachi Daiojou BLE! It would be neat if Ibara Kuro was coming to 360 but... It's not as far as I know. I have no clue how Gametrailers messed up the name.

Bravo.

Yes, it's old news.

BulletMagnet wrote:YesAsia's product page does indeed show the release date set for June - P-A still has it listed as "Q1." Guess we'll have to wait and see which one turns out to be correct...weirdly, P-A has moved Ketsui's release date to "TBA", while YA still has it at the end of January. I honestly wonder if anyone has any idea what's going on, heh heh.

Chances are this is the new release date for Ketsui as well. Maybe they want to release them at the same time to help promote the sales of shmup games over there? In any case, we have over half a year to talk about it now, so let's get something to drink.

RackGaki · Post by **RackGaki** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:22 pm

@hovis

Don't take things personally, I was stating the situation as I see it.

@release dates

At least we have lots to play in the meantime, even if they aren't Cave titles.

dmauro · Post by **dmauro** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:01 pm

I'm looking on the bright side: maybe there will be another price drop before I have to buy a Japanese 360.

TLB · Post by **TLB** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:09 pm

dmauro wrote:I'm looking on the bright side: maybe there will be another price drop before I have to buy a Japanese 360.

:(

More bright side: I have a year to play DOJ before I probably end up getting BLEX. The more I play and understand DOJ, the more I think "Damn, Cave == geniuses!"

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:12 pm

The Yesasia date is just a filler, like how Amazon.co.jp has Deathsmiles listed for 1/11/2011. For Yesasia, they just list it as June 30,2009 because they know it will be released in the first half of the year but they don't know the exact date. They've done this many times before.

TLB · Post by **TLB** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:30 pm

Hm. That's good to know. I'm still probably not going to get it for a year, though xD

JAPJAC · Post by **JAPJAC** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:30 am

Pictures of all THREE Ketsui displays at the Tokyo Game Show `08:

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=1FdLUp1SlA8

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:50 am

Well that TGS vid got me pumped

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:02 am

JAPJAC wrote:Pictures of all THREE Ketsui displays at the Tokyo Game Show `08:

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=1FdLUp1SlA8

You're a Namie Amuro fan?