Kotaku:
Chances are, if you like shoot 'em ups, you like the Xbox 360. Makes sense as tons of Japanese arcade shooters have been getting Xbox 360 ports.Which is why Microsoft is holding a "festa."
On December 5 in Akihabara, Microsoft's "Xbox 360 Shooting Festa" kicks off. The event will have kiosks with playable shooters as well as "score attack" for DoDonPachi Dai Ou Jou Black Label EXTRA and a stage even for Gothic Lolita shmup Death Smiles.
Other titles on display include Ketsui, Shooting Love 200X, Raiden IV, Otomedius Gorgeous, Senko no Ronde Rev. X, R-Type Dimensions, Galaga Legions, IKARUGA, TriggerHeart EXELICA, XEVIOUS and Galaga.
Info Here [Xbox.com via Dengeki Online]
http://kotaku.com/5099097/xbox-japans-s ... s-december
Discuss
Xbox Japan's Shoot 'Em Up Festa Fires Away This December
Re: Xbox Japan's Shoot 'Em Up Festa Fires Away This December
It will be hold by Microsoft?bcelmo wrote:Which is why Microsoft is holding a "festa."
I hope that means MS is planning to support japanese shmup developers in the future (and allow more shmups on XBLA)!
WTB: Arkanoid II Revenge Of Doh PCB, Outzone PCB, Fixeight PCB
Xbox360 is definately the platform of choice this generation for shmups. If you add all XBLA, XNA and retail shmups available or upcoming (even if there are a lot of crappy games out there), the MS machine has a bigger STG library than the Dreamcast. However i think that, if we don`t get a method of making it region free in the near future it will not achieve the rank of "cult classic" as the DC has
MS always thinks global. Some of the shooting games (shmups and boarderliners) on xbla were quite successful, so now they're simply investing more money and effort into it.bcelmo wrote:However i think that, if we don`t get a method of making it region free in the near future it will not achieve the rank of "cult classic" as the DC has
I expect this to be some sort of test run that will be expanded to western territories in the future...one way or the other.
MS thinks global but not in the way most of us here will probably like.
We like money too, but only important amounts...
Like asian rgps trying to now appeal to western markets, microsoft are trying to make their system relevant to japanese gamers. That paralleled with the relative ease/affordability of the the xbox compared to the ps3 is giving microsoft a basis upon which to try and push there wetern brand over the home brand of sony...
... shooters a niche of this japan relevant front...
Recent trends suggest to me they're kind of charitable to japan shmups just to push their system and foreign brand in japan. This charity will not extend to making region free versions or global shmup projects unless the game is comprehensively translated in all languages, and - particularly if you want it on xbla as oppossed to disk - has a recognisable name in english.
They're not bothered about releasing a gears of war 2 for japanese speakers, what on earth would give you much hope to see western versions of shmups? ...
The only way we'll see this is if a publisher wants to take up the mantle of any game and push it - something I doubt we'll be seeing in times of budget watching.
Ideally I'd see region free disks of all niche games no matter what their language format or title - why not increase you market as wide as possible? But microsoft will not sacrifice a single part of their system/service promotion schemes to do this.
The days of seeing arcade ports and 'ambitiously' titled games (such as ikaruga) on xbla are more or less over as microsoft continues its idea of what marketing to the 'wider audience' entails... which basically amounts to 'big dumb' and 'target specific'.
And unfortunately I can't see the western shmups market as one of their 'target specific' audiences and they will be so paranoid of tainting their bigger picture that they will not push shmups - espcially jap shmups - in a western market or even as part of their global plan ...
In an ideal world they'd just organise xbla better to make it more viable to have sections for less popular games and/or have region free games... but 'people don't like menus' and all kinds of dumb market protection ideas will prevent this.... ergh ...
The company that made it not possible to use a mouse in case you thought of the 'console' as a 'computer' ... well I'm sure it helped to protect sales of halo to people who didn't want to buy another peripheral ...
... but in relaity wii sells peripherals like hot cakes, and by doing this you basically made sure that mmos would be less likely to crop up on 360 ... how much money could that have made? And all because you wanted to protect your halo crowd? Really? Oh well...
I'm done with being an optimist these days
*edit - i apologise for the probable spelling mistakes and length of this - it just annoys me
We like money too, but only important amounts...
Like asian rgps trying to now appeal to western markets, microsoft are trying to make their system relevant to japanese gamers. That paralleled with the relative ease/affordability of the the xbox compared to the ps3 is giving microsoft a basis upon which to try and push there wetern brand over the home brand of sony...
... shooters a niche of this japan relevant front...
Recent trends suggest to me they're kind of charitable to japan shmups just to push their system and foreign brand in japan. This charity will not extend to making region free versions or global shmup projects unless the game is comprehensively translated in all languages, and - particularly if you want it on xbla as oppossed to disk - has a recognisable name in english.
They're not bothered about releasing a gears of war 2 for japanese speakers, what on earth would give you much hope to see western versions of shmups? ...
The only way we'll see this is if a publisher wants to take up the mantle of any game and push it - something I doubt we'll be seeing in times of budget watching.
Ideally I'd see region free disks of all niche games no matter what their language format or title - why not increase you market as wide as possible? But microsoft will not sacrifice a single part of their system/service promotion schemes to do this.
The days of seeing arcade ports and 'ambitiously' titled games (such as ikaruga) on xbla are more or less over as microsoft continues its idea of what marketing to the 'wider audience' entails... which basically amounts to 'big dumb' and 'target specific'.
And unfortunately I can't see the western shmups market as one of their 'target specific' audiences and they will be so paranoid of tainting their bigger picture that they will not push shmups - espcially jap shmups - in a western market or even as part of their global plan ...
In an ideal world they'd just organise xbla better to make it more viable to have sections for less popular games and/or have region free games... but 'people don't like menus' and all kinds of dumb market protection ideas will prevent this.... ergh ...
The company that made it not possible to use a mouse in case you thought of the 'console' as a 'computer' ... well I'm sure it helped to protect sales of halo to people who didn't want to buy another peripheral ...
... but in relaity wii sells peripherals like hot cakes, and by doing this you basically made sure that mmos would be less likely to crop up on 360 ... how much money could that have made? And all because you wanted to protect your halo crowd? Really? Oh well...
I'm done with being an optimist these days
*edit - i apologise for the probable spelling mistakes and length of this - it just annoys me
"They're not bothered about releasing a gears of war 2 for japanese speakers, what on earth would give you much hope to see western versions of shmups? ..."
Gears of War 2 is not region coded and since the first one didn't sell too well in Japan there's absolutely no need for an official JP version. Similar situation like in Germany (though for different reasons, here...no rating = no official release) MS knows interested gamers will import anyway. This is part of their global thinking, like it or not.
As for the shmups - sure, a title like Ketsui or Raiden IV wouldn't be as commercially successful as Braid or SF2-HD but still, there is a small but dependable base of customers for such titles and the people working at MS know that.
Releasing titles like Ketsui simply isn't very high on their priority list now but this will change if people keep asking for them. Every time those 360 shmup ports are mentioned on Kotaku or any other bigger blog/site gamers say they want to play them. Believe me, this doesn't go unnoticed...
"And unfortunately I can't see the western shmups market as one of their 'target specific' audiences and they will be so paranoid of tainting their bigger picture that they will not push shmups - espcially jap shmups - in a western market or even as part of their global plan ..."
MS knows that they can't keep selling arena shooters forever, so they're looking for ways to evolve their selection of shooting games on xbla. Omega 5 and R-Type Dimensions are part of this evolution. My guess is that the already submitted Under Defeat and current "test run" (Ketsui etc.) in Japan are previews of future steps into shooting game territory which will include western markets.
Gears of War 2 is not region coded and since the first one didn't sell too well in Japan there's absolutely no need for an official JP version. Similar situation like in Germany (though for different reasons, here...no rating = no official release) MS knows interested gamers will import anyway. This is part of their global thinking, like it or not.
As for the shmups - sure, a title like Ketsui or Raiden IV wouldn't be as commercially successful as Braid or SF2-HD but still, there is a small but dependable base of customers for such titles and the people working at MS know that.
Releasing titles like Ketsui simply isn't very high on their priority list now but this will change if people keep asking for them. Every time those 360 shmup ports are mentioned on Kotaku or any other bigger blog/site gamers say they want to play them. Believe me, this doesn't go unnoticed...
"And unfortunately I can't see the western shmups market as one of their 'target specific' audiences and they will be so paranoid of tainting their bigger picture that they will not push shmups - espcially jap shmups - in a western market or even as part of their global plan ..."
MS knows that they can't keep selling arena shooters forever, so they're looking for ways to evolve their selection of shooting games on xbla. Omega 5 and R-Type Dimensions are part of this evolution. My guess is that the already submitted Under Defeat and current "test run" (Ketsui etc.) in Japan are previews of future steps into shooting game territory which will include western markets.
Last edited by Necronom on Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'd take issue that they're looking to diversify xbla - if it hadn't been for developer and consumer pressure they would have already culled a number of games from xbla... If you're looking to diversify why turn down true arcade ports, particularly ddp/ketsui ... under defeat is still in with a chance because it has an english title...
True, in reality I suppose with even jap developers struggling we should first rejioce these games will ever be ported to anything at all.
It would be nice if they were made as easily available as possible - particularly the bigger titles. But the reality is that even thats thinking too far ahead - really we probably just need to make sure they're made in the first place! ... global trends and progressions of the shmups genre into the western 'casual/popular' markets is a future debate...
Sadly I doubt many of the halo types could even name a game like ikaruga/gradius ...
So instead of being down on microsoft initiatives, I'll manage my expectations and say yay to this news!
True, in reality I suppose with even jap developers struggling we should first rejioce these games will ever be ported to anything at all.
It would be nice if they were made as easily available as possible - particularly the bigger titles. But the reality is that even thats thinking too far ahead - really we probably just need to make sure they're made in the first place! ... global trends and progressions of the shmups genre into the western 'casual/popular' markets is a future debate...
Sadly I doubt many of the halo types could even name a game like ikaruga/gradius ...
So instead of being down on microsoft initiatives, I'll manage my expectations and say yay to this news!
HAHAHA! I'd totally sig that if I wasn't GREAT BOREDOM DAISAKUSEN!ing already =PFrederik wrote:Wow, I guess after this festa we all will need a nice long sesta, with some tortlas and burtos and a few shots of tequla.
Shit, maybe I should sig it anyway =P
We'll see if I still feel that way next week.
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Guardians Knight
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not sure if this should have its own topic but here seems as good a place as any to tell ppl that in xbox gamer this month there is a wee 2 page spread about the new shoot em ups coming soon, - ketsui, ddp, r-type and otemedius, plus there was more stuff about and the tokyo game show
could be old news, soz if it is
could be old news, soz if it is
001
Notice how many of those gamers that want to play them either don't want to pay full price for these games or they want them in bundled packs to justify the price tag. The only way I can see these getting released here is if they get released at full price, or potentially a lower price tag ($30 or 40). They couldn't just release them on XBLA for the states and europe because then they would be cannibalizing their market for the full price in japan, not to mention pissing off all the japanese gamers that paid full price for the same console release.Necronom wrote:. Every time those 360 shmup ports are mentioned on Kotaku or any other bigger blog/site gamers say they want to play them. Believe me, this doesn't go unnoticed...
Feedback will set you free.
captpain wrote:Basically, the reason people don't like Bakraid is because they are fat and dumb
Releasing titles like Ketsui or Death Smiles on xbla 1 year AFTER their disc release in Japan wouldn't cannibalize anything. Since xbla games are often bought on impulse due to the low price I wouldn't be too surprised if a worldwide xbla release turned out to be more lucrative in the end than the region coded JP-only premiere. And who cares about the jp gamers who paid full price - if you buy a dvd considerably cheaper few months later, nobody gives a damn. Why should games be any different?Acid King wrote:Notice how many of those gamers that want to play them either don't want to pay full price for these games or they want them in bundled packs to justify the price tag. The only way I can see these getting released here is if they get released at full price, or potentially a lower price tag ($30 or 40). They couldn't just release them on XBLA for the states and europe because then they would be cannibalizing their market for the full price in japan, not to mention pissing off all the japanese gamers that paid full price for the same console release.Necronom wrote:. Every time those 360 shmup ports are mentioned on Kotaku or any other bigger blog/site gamers say they want to play them. Believe me, this doesn't go unnoticed...
Considering a possible western disc release - there's absolutely no reason why a (technicaly rather easy) port of an already existing arcade game should come with a full price tag.
Microsoft obviously cares about japanese gamers, otherwise they wouldn't be doing things like this in the first place. I just don't think they would do something like that, it's too big of a shift in cost. The analogy iwth DVDs doesn't work because they start at a lower price and fall less relative to their price. I don't think there's a precedence for it either. Have they ever released something over here on XBLA that was a full price disc release on Xbox in japan? The best we get is a lowered price point on disc releases, which has been happening for awhile now with shooters.Necronom wrote: Releasing titles like Ketsui or Death Smiles on xbla 1 year AFTER their disc release in Japan wouldn't cannibalize anything. Since xbla games are often bought on impulse due to the low price I wouldn't be too surprised if a worldwide xbla release turned out to be more lucrative in the end than the region coded JP-only premiere. And who cares about the jp gamers who paid full price - if you buy a dvd considerably cheaper few months later, nobody gives a damn. Why should games be any different?
Considering a possible western disc release - there's absolutely no reason why a (technicaly rather easy) port of an already existing arcade game should come with a full price tag.
And Cave, if I remember correctly, refuses to allow budget releases of their games overseas. So I think that a lower, but not budget title, price point disc release is the best we could hope for, especially if Cave is going with a disc release in Japan (remember the reason why 5pb was denied XBLA release of Ketsui and DOJ to begin with).
Feedback will set you free.
captpain wrote:Basically, the reason people don't like Bakraid is because they are fat and dumb
"Have they ever released something over here on XBLA that was a full price disc release on Xbox in japan?"
No, the only thing I can think of is Ikaruga which turned into an xbla game roughly 5 years after its full price status on the gamecube. Note that I wrote "1 year AFTER" and not shortly after.
Also, I don't think that what you say about DVDs is correct. It very much depends on the film and some of them go for a lot less than half of the starting price merely months after their release. Imo the industry should stop - in case they really do - worrying about "gamers who paid full price" just like the movie industry doesn't worry about people who bought the theatrical version when they're releasing the Director's Cut.
"The best we get is a lowered price point on disc releases, which has been happening for awhile now with shooters."
All those examples are from the pre-xbla/psn times from the last gen of consoles. Since then there has only been one western disc release of a (boarderliner-) shmup on consoles (not counting handhelds), Senko/Wartech for the 360 which wasn't very successful.
My point: Trying to persuade people who are not familiar with Cave to shell out 40 €/$ for something like Death Smiles will be much more difficult than generating lots of impulse buys via xbla for 15 $.
A good solution to this problem would be to introduce downloadable games with flexible price tags set by the publisher. This way Cave or whoever is bringing the stuff over to the west could bypass the immense costs of a disc release while still getting a rather fat cut out of a 20 - 30 $ xbla game. Something similar is happening right now with the dlc for GTA4, selling for 20 $.
No, the only thing I can think of is Ikaruga which turned into an xbla game roughly 5 years after its full price status on the gamecube. Note that I wrote "1 year AFTER" and not shortly after.
Also, I don't think that what you say about DVDs is correct. It very much depends on the film and some of them go for a lot less than half of the starting price merely months after their release. Imo the industry should stop - in case they really do - worrying about "gamers who paid full price" just like the movie industry doesn't worry about people who bought the theatrical version when they're releasing the Director's Cut.
"The best we get is a lowered price point on disc releases, which has been happening for awhile now with shooters."
All those examples are from the pre-xbla/psn times from the last gen of consoles. Since then there has only been one western disc release of a (boarderliner-) shmup on consoles (not counting handhelds), Senko/Wartech for the 360 which wasn't very successful.
My point: Trying to persuade people who are not familiar with Cave to shell out 40 €/$ for something like Death Smiles will be much more difficult than generating lots of impulse buys via xbla for 15 $.
A good solution to this problem would be to introduce downloadable games with flexible price tags set by the publisher. This way Cave or whoever is bringing the stuff over to the west could bypass the immense costs of a disc release while still getting a rather fat cut out of a 20 - 30 $ xbla game. Something similar is happening right now with the dlc for GTA4, selling for 20 $.
That's funny, I could have sworn I saw shiki 3 for the wii at gamestop the other day, and amazon is taking preorders for the milestone collection that's supposed to be out in 2 weeks.Necronom wrote:Since then there has only been one western disc release of a (boarderliner-) shmup on consoles (not counting handhelds), Senko/Wartech for the 360 which wasn't very successful.
Or does the wii not count as a console?
True, and I'm pretty sure Shiki 3 was released at $30, which keeps the trend of reduced price US releases.cody wrote: That's funny, I could have sworn I saw shiki 3 for the wii at gamestop the other day, and amazon is taking preorders for the milestone collection that's supposed to be out in 2 weeks.
Or does the wii not count as a console?
Feedback will set you free.
captpain wrote:Basically, the reason people don't like Bakraid is because they are fat and dumb
Yay, Spread all that XBox 360 Lurve!!
Now comes with Gaming Blog and Twitter:
http://mctgaming.blogspot.com/
http://twitter.com/mr_m0nks
All Your Shmups are belong to us!
http://mctgaming.blogspot.com/
http://twitter.com/mr_m0nks
All Your Shmups are belong to us!
True, forgot about Shiki 3 on the Wii. My fault.cody wrote:That's funny, I could have sworn I saw shiki 3 for the wii at gamestop the other day, and amazon is taking preorders for the milestone collection that's supposed to be out in 2 weeks.Necronom wrote:Since then there has only been one western disc release of a (boarderliner-) shmup on consoles (not counting handhelds), Senko/Wartech for the 360 which wasn't very successful.
Or does the wii not count as a console?
I highly doubt that we'll see a Cave collection like the upcoming Milestone one though. Milestone's games are second tier shmups, imo. Wouldn't make much sense to release them separately anyway.
Also, would love to see the sales numbers of those two. Especially in comparison to the shmups sold via xbla.
Actually, the original Gears sold pretty well here in Japan and Gears 2 was one of the most anticipated titles of this year. CERO refused to rate the game due to excessive violence (like in Germany, I suppose), so they were unable to release the game. Microsoft had every intention to release the game here, they had already finished the localization but were blocked right at the final stage of passing the ratings board. Regardless, many game stores have import copies of Gears 2 available to buy.Necronom wrote:"They're not bothered about releasing a gears of war 2 for japanese speakers, what on earth would give you much hope to see western versions of shmups? ..."
Gears of War 2 is not region coded and since the first one didn't sell too well in Japan there's absolutely no need for an official JP version. Similar situation like in Germany (though for different reasons, here...no rating = no official release) MS knows interested gamers will import anyway. This is part of their global thinking, like it or not.
Anyway, I doubt that Triggerheart set XBLA on fire outside of Japan (where it sold very well), so I don't see Microsoft making much of an effort trying to bring shooters out on XBLA and pissing off the Japanese publishers who would want them to be full releases. Yeah yeah, Triggerheart isn't as good as a Cave game, try telling that to your average player, all that shit's the same to them. Ikaruga sold well just because it has a bit of a hyped following and people seem to consider it the 2nd coming of shooters despite not really understanding the game. None of the Cave games have this sort of following outside of very niche markets.
Ikaruga was already a recognized title thanks to the international GameCube release. Plus, it had a pedigree behind it that THE just didn't have.originalz wrote:Anyway, I doubt that Triggerheart set XBLA on fire outside of Japan (where it sold very well), so I don't see Microsoft making much of an effort trying to bring shooters out on XBLA and pissing off the Japanese publishers who would want them to be full releases. Yeah yeah, Triggerheart isn't as good as a Cave game, try telling that to your average player, all that shit's the same to them. Ikaruga sold well just because it has a bit of a hyped following and people seem to consider it the 2nd coming of shooters despite not really understanding the game. None of the Cave games have this sort of following outside of very niche markets.
THE hasn't performed that badly and it has managed to garner a decent little Western following. But you have to admit that the game is something of an acquired taste.
I'm a big fan of Triggerheart, but to the average westerner they'll see Triggerheart and DDP next to each other and not be able to tell the differences. To most people, these top-down shooters are a cute throwback to the past, but not worth investing a lot of time in. They won't learn the score systems or try to credit the game, they'll just credit feed and bomb spam to beat the game. I remember reading many reviews of Triggerheart that bashed the game for that reason (along with "impossible achievements"). It would be the same, some people would buy it of course, but lots of others will be turned off by the dated graphics and the awful yoko presentation. I would be surprised if Shikagami 3 USA ever had a second print. Hell, these games don't really sell that well in Japan anymore.Kiken wrote:Ikaruga was already a recognized title thanks to the international GameCube release. Plus, it had a pedigree behind it that THE just didn't have.originalz wrote:Anyway, I doubt that Triggerheart set XBLA on fire outside of Japan (where it sold very well), so I don't see Microsoft making much of an effort trying to bring shooters out on XBLA and pissing off the Japanese publishers who would want them to be full releases. Yeah yeah, Triggerheart isn't as good as a Cave game, try telling that to your average player, all that shit's the same to them. Ikaruga sold well just because it has a bit of a hyped following and people seem to consider it the 2nd coming of shooters despite not really understanding the game. None of the Cave games have this sort of following outside of very niche markets.
THE hasn't performed that badly and it has managed to garner a decent little Western following. But you have to admit that the game is something of an acquired taste.
Most westerners just don't know enough about shooters, especially ones without any name recognition. I think that the only 360 shooter that could benefit from a western release is the Raiden series. It just doesn't make much financial sense for Microsoft to push these games in the west, where they're trying to move more mainstream (whereas the opposite is happening in Japan, MS is trying to get the hardcore gamers to come over to their system). The Japanese publisher would much rather get better money by licensing the game out to a niche American publisher for a full release.
Yeah, a Raiden IV would most certainly find its fans here...so would Under Defeat which imho is the shooter with the biggest "mainstream potential".originalz wrote:Most westerners just don't know enough about shooters, especially ones without any name recognition. I think that the only 360 shooter that could benefit from a western release is the Raiden series. It just doesn't make much financial sense for Microsoft to push these games in the west, where they're trying to move more mainstream (whereas the opposite is happening in Japan, MS is trying to get the hardcore gamers to come over to their system). The Japanese publisher would much rather get better money by licensing the game out to a niche American publisher for a full release.
I think many people here underestimate the effect the sudden appearance of a cave shooter on western xbla would have. Judged by western standards such a title would be quite an oddity - generating curiosity and hopefully a serious number of impulse buys. I might be wrong about this but seeing how much worldwide attention Kenta Cho got with his (free) bullet hell games I truely believe that it might be worth a try.
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Square King
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rancid3000
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Well, here is a start. IGN in America did a little write up of the event. I stumbled on this article when looking for details on the delay of dodonpachi and ketsui.Square King wrote:Hopefully, this is good news for Western shmup fans and 360 owners.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/936/936223p1.html