Games that got bad reviews but you like them

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Drascin
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Post by Drascin »

kengou wrote: Not to belabor a point, but I'll point you to http://gruegaming.blogspot.com/2008/06/ ... -knew.html. Out of 12 sample shmups, 5 got 70% or higher, and 2 out of those 5 got 80% or higher. For a vast majority of review websites, 60-70% is not considered "good", but generally "poor" or "average" at best. Considering how much most of us (I assume) love shmups, I'd call that "criminally bad" compared to what scores these games OUGHT to get, and compared to what other crappy games get in the 90s on a lot of sites.
Well, yes, that's the thing. For many new gamers, shmups look like a relic of the past that keeps floundering and refusing to die completely. Hell, around here (I'm Spanish), the whole genre is known by the uninitiated as "matamarcianos" which is the nickname for Space Freaking Invaders since the beginning of the eighties! That's why they call it "retro" - they don't mean "it's an old game" they mean "it's a throwback to very old games".

Of course, this has a little merit in that many shmups do seem superficially very alike to old ones - Cave shooters, for example, evolve slowly but surely, and certainly comparing one with the next might give you the impression the changes are minimal. It takes actually playing it with a bit of depth to notice the changes.

However, my annoyance is more that the evolution in some other genres is about as slow but they don't get all this flak. The FPS genre evolution is more or less defined by the interval of time it takes for Valve to get off their asses and make a new game, ever since quite a while ago - Half Life was a big quality step for the genre, and then there were a thousand imitators (not to mention the fact that that one mod turned online FPS multiplayer from something only for big fans, like in the times of Quake, to something everyone had tried at least once), and same with Half Life 2. Before Valve, the evolution was basically defined by Id Software at first - Doom and Quake had many imitators, but no one really could beat them. It's as much of a slow-evolving genre as shmups. Yet they don't get scorned for it. It's like shiny graphics and "immersion" manage to hide it from the reviewers. There are of course things like Bioshock which try new approaches to the genre, but they're drops in an ocean of standard WWII games.

Platformers... let's be honest here, platformers are Nintendo's turf. They have been the shot that started every single platforming era - Super Mario Bros revealed the formula for sidescrolling platformers, Super Mario 3 perfected it, Super Mario 64 created the 3D genre singlehandedly, and Super Mario Galaxy reinvented it yet again. Most of the things in the middle are shameless imitators with no real evolution, among which there are, of course, some gems (Mischief Makers and Banjo-Kazooie come to mind), but in general, the same comment applies here than on my FPS rant above. Believe me here, I might be a newbie at shmups but I've played enough platformers to fill out a room.

In the same way, shooters evolve and have their fads, even if slowly. First there were the statics, ala Invaders and Galaga. Then the horis had a huge time in the sun, see Gradius and R-Type, which were huge sales successes everywhere. Then horis started to diminish as arcade verts grew exponentially thanks to some really great games (I remember spending worrying amounts of my allowance on some of them). Right now, it seems bullet hells or semi-bullet-hells are all the rage (great for me, because I enjoy bullet hells!). This evolution seems pretty paralell to some other genres. So why are shmups so maligned?

My guess would be that shmups can't really disguise their mechanics. An FPS can hide its bog-standard mechanics behind cool weapons, nice scenery, and a storyline. A shmup dies or lives by its mechanics, and can't really hide them. And people have become unused to games that are purely mechanical - right now, even puzzles have storyline and special stuff, but shmups have problems to implement them.

Still, I think games ala Ether Vapor, which shuffle the mechanics every so often with the bonus stages and changing the type from vert to hori to railshooter could get some better reviews. It's just how most reviewers are wired.

...Holy shit, I really need to take my anti-ranting pills. I hope I made some sense there in the middle of the stream of thought.
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ForceDevice
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Post by ForceDevice »

Let's see... I had a lot of fun with Dawn of Mana (and really, I don't give a shit to the fact it's not an RPG, nostalgia-ridden Seiken Densetsu fanboys can go fuck themselves). Baroque was amazing. Suikoden IV was by no means bad, and didn't ruin the series as many fanboys claim. Beats me why so many reviewers bashed Wild ARMs 2 so much, with it being such a beautiful game. And fuck Gamespot for bashing Tales of Destiny; it's better than most games they rated a 10. -_-
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Mortificator
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Post by Mortificator »

Matsunaga wrote:
m3tall1ca wrote:
gabe wrote: I second that. I absolutely loved that game.

Speaking of which... I ought to source a copy and play through it again. It's been a good 10 years since I have touched it.
Same! And I never even got to beat it =/
I 4th that opinion, that game was awesome.
5th! The people who say Mega Man should stay 2D are fools!!
Specineff wrote:Xenogears.
I think this is the best Japanese RPG I've ever seen.
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MathU
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Post by MathU »

Every arcade game ever. Also Chaos Field. Everyone seems to hate that, but I love it.
Mortificator wrote:The people who say Mega Man should stay 2D are fools!!
Mega Man should stay 2D.
Of course, that's just an opinion.
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TLB
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Post by TLB »

MathU wrote:Every arcade game ever. Also Chaos Field. Everyone seems to hate that, but I love it.
Mortificator wrote:The people who say Mega Man should stay 2D are fools!!
Mega Man should stay 2D.
<3s Chaos Field. "I'm a Chaos Field EXPERT. ASK ME ANYTHING!" Chuckles.
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szycag
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Post by szycag »

Legends is ok for what it is, I seem to remember the Tron Bonne spin-off being really good too, and I remember it getting better reviews than the Legends games even though it was kinda similar. I'd rather have another Legends game than yet another Battle Network title. I don't see how Legends impedes on Mega Man staying 2D though, by tacking something else on there you make it a spinoff. Mega Man X9 being completely 3D or something would be an issue.
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dave4shmups
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Post by dave4shmups »

Andi wrote:Almost every game I like gets shit reviews. I played through both episodes of Deep Labyrinth on the DS and had fun. When I bought Rengoku 2 at Gamestop even the woman at the cash register told me that I shouldn't waste my money on it and it's my favorite game on PSP. Right now I'm playing Valhalla Knights 2 and it seems pretty fun. And, fuck it, I even like Deadly Towers on the NES.
Right on Andi, I love Deadly Towers! :D

Top Gun on the NES
Project X2: No Relief for the PS1 One of the best console exclusive shmups ever made, IMO.
And since Cthulhu mentioned rail shooters, I'll add the Galaga Remix on Namco Museum Remix for the Wii. My favorite rail shooter, and reason enough to get that collection.
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SockPuppetHyren
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Post by SockPuppetHyren »

Advance Guardian Heroes.

Of course, I never played the original, so that might be why.
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Lordstar
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Post by Lordstar »

Not a lot is as good as it. I cant understand why they dont make somehting like that again it really was something special.

big Megaman battle network fan I have all the GBA versions as well as MMBN5 on the DS. Never bought the DS ones as they got a really limited release here in the UK and when i see them i resent paying 30GBP for a second hand game
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shmups members can purchase here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21158
320x240
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Post by 320x240 »

Drascin wrote:My guess would be that shmups can't really disguise their mechanics. An FPS can hide its bog-standard mechanics behind cool weapons, nice scenery, and a storyline. A shmup dies or lives by its mechanics, and can't really hide them. And people have become unused to games that are purely mechanical - right now, even puzzles have storyline and special stuff, but shmups have problems to implement them.
You are quite right. Games have yet to be accepted for what they are and consequently they have to dress up as something else.
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E. Randy Dupre
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Post by E. Randy Dupre »

There are a few in here that I wouldn't have said received reviews that were all that bad.

Got to agree with Bullet Witch and P.N.03.

The first is one of those games that you can turn off your brain for and that allow you to slip into a basic, hypnotic state while still managing to get some entertainment value - Import Tuner Challenge is another.

The second is bloody great and only received the reviews it did because Capcom did such a poor job of explaining it, plus gave it such a low budget that its visuals couldn't hope to sell it. Once you tune into its peculiar way of doing things and understand what the game itself is trying to do, it's fantastic.
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D
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Post by D »

Simple! Like every arcade port that got reviewed by an idiot. :P
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jpj
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Post by jpj »

i don't read reviews, trailers and gameplay videos are easier to digest and more beneficial for me anyways :)
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KindGrind
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Post by KindGrind »

Dave_K. wrote:Ketsui
Jesus, Ketsui " is like Dodonpachi for beginners". Of course. :shock:

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought about God Hand, too.
Muchos años después, frente al pelotón de fusilamiento...
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Taylor
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Post by Taylor »

God Hand didn't do that badly overall, it's just IGN didn't get it.

That Ketsui article is... wow.
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gameoverDude
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Post by gameoverDude »

Time Crisis 4: EGM was pretty unkind to the PS3 version, but I like the game. GunCon 3 is fairly accurate when it's properly setup.

Ghost Squad: Reviewers rag on it for being just 15 minutes long, but you can replay and choose harder Mission Levels.

Maoh Renjishi (Mystical Fighter) : Another victim of EGM's review crew, this game is about as good as Streets of Rage IMO.

Ketsui: That one review at insertcredit was a total miss.

Thunder Force VI: Some people here have slammed it, and I disagree.
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ZOM
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Post by ZOM »

Taylor wrote:That Ketsui article is... wow.
:?:
Did i miss something?

On topic:
Most of my favorite games got bad/not so great reviews, Baroque is a really good example.
I already thought about taking the reverse route:
if a game gets a 9.whatever -> don't buy it.
If it goes lower than 7.5 -> check out some gameplay videos first and if it looks good enough, purchase. ^_^
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CStarFlare
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Post by CStarFlare »

The Ketsui thing isn't a review; he's just giving initial impressions. Frankly, I didn't think it looked that interesting myself when I first saw it. It was only after putting time into Death Label that I started thinking that it might maybe be something to get excited about.

Clock Tower is the big one for me. Huge fan of the series.

For me, it goes like this - if it's a "niche" series (or even genre), I generally enjoy games much more than reviews say I should. For more mainstream titles, I generally agree, minus mabye a score of .5 or so.

In the end, reviews are interesting to read for someone else's perspective, but I never purchase a game based on professional reviews. Gameplay videos/info, testimonies from people who like the same things I like, and gut feelings guide me and rarely lead me astray.
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The Coop
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Post by The Coop »

Last Hope- It certainly got bashed over the head enough times around here, but I still enjoy playing it.

Wild Metal- I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who purchased a copy of the DC port, but I've played the hell out of that game. It's simplistic, gravity-laden fun.

Red Zone- This game got slammed a lot for it's supposedly bad controls, and unforgiving gameplay. The controls are fine (it feels just like the Desert Strike controls, but from a top view), and I've beaten it. The graphics, the soundtrack, the challenge level... it's fun stuff. My only gripe is the somewhat floaty feel of the on-foot missions.
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Dale
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Post by Dale »

Every game ever. If EGM didn't like it it must have been awesome.
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sfried
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Post by sfried »

Kirby Air Ride.

I don't know how else to explain it but say it's like Kirby Super Star Racing.
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Acid King
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Post by Acid King »

Dale wrote:Every game ever. If EGM didn't like it it must have been awesome.
I remember being outraged over their review of Alien vs. Predator for Jaguar.
Feedback will set you free.
captpain wrote:Basically, the reason people don't like Bakraid is because they are fat and dumb
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Jockel
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Post by Jockel »

E. Randy Dupre wrote:The second is bloody great and only received the reviews it did because Capcom did such a poor job of explaining it, plus gave it such a low budget that its visuals couldn't hope to sell it. Once you tune into its peculiar way of doing things and understand what the game itself is trying to do, it's fantastic.
oO
i found the graphics to be effing amazing!
Image
Image
Reviewers hated it, because it was "too much of the same, heartless design"- i'd argue that it's supposed to look this way. This is a grim sci-fi scenario, after all. I had a lot of fun trying to speedrun this game.
kozo
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Post by kozo »

I liked Specineff's thoughts on Xenogears.

Myself:

Suikoden V
Lovely, lovely game. People ignore it because III and IV didn't do too well, and because of the long prologue (around 7-10 hours before the big "OMG" moment that kicks off the story.) But unlike most JRPGs, SV USES those 7 hours to develop characters and set up strong exposition, which the game absolutely uses later on to make the story shine - an atypical, grand tale of war, love and politics, unlike the usual "boy finds hidden power in small village" crap. Voice acting is good in both Western and Japanese releases, cutscenes are motion captured, graphics are a perfect blend of old and new, music is soothing and well-produced, characters are deeper and more expressive than the usual JRPG stereotype despite there being 108+ of them, etc. etc. etc. Suikoden 5 wins on so many levels it's a crying shame how un-loved it is and how many people don't give it a fair shake and give up in the first 2 hours.

Suikoden IV
On that note, IV gets very little love, but for a different reason. I understand the game is flawed (unlike V, which is perfect! :D ) but I still enjoyed it and got very deeply into the story and gameplay.

Front Mission V Scars of the War
Another one that we never got here, so it's all but ignored in the West, but was a big hit in Japan. This is Front Mission's equivalent of Suiko V: realistic, captivating, moving, epic, the pinnacle of the series, and has a great soundtrack to boot. FM5 so far outshines and outclasses the rest of it's own series it doesn't even feel like a Front Mission game. It completely frees itself of the shackles the series had (varying quality of art, music and plot, poor programming, boring battles, long loading times) and is both a technical and storytelling success story.

Ibara
Apparently this game is unloved. I had no idea. It blows me away every time I boot it up. Seriously good stuff, amazing! Cave is fun and all, but I love the Raizing style as well.

Legend of Heroes series
This is an odd one - the series is IMMENSELY popular in the East, but in the States, we got a mangled, Babelfish-ized mess of a PSP port. What we got as LoH1 is actually 4, our 2 is actually 3, and our 3 is actually 5. :roll: What a mess. These, and the slipshod port of Ys VI we got have given Falcom a bad name in the US, whereas they are in actuality one of the premier developers in Japan. It's a shame they license out their works to companies who aren't competent.

Star Trader
An obscure Falcom shmup, with adventure elements. I understand it was a bit of a hit and miss back when it came out in '89, but I love it. Good, fun story, great sci-fi graphics and setting, awesome Falcom music, great artwork, and best of all, challenging shmuppage.

IkaROOga
I know this one is "popular", but it gets lots of disgust here. I understand the complaints people have, but this game (along with Gradius 5) got me back into shmups after years of missing out. It's a beautiful game when it's given the right TV to shine on, the music is effective and blends in, and the chaining system is fun and easy to grasp but a good enough challenge to master. It has no need for powerups and speedups because the speed and balance of the ship is perfect as is - obviously this would suck in, say, Gradius, so I don't consider this the way ALL shmups should be. It just worked here so well. Yes, it has planes that crash into each other, and that is goofy (hi Rob! :D ) but if you're letting them crash, you're doing it wrong. ;)

Lots more out there, but there you go.
kozo
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Post by kozo »

ZOM wrote: Most of my favorite games got bad/not so great reviews, Baroque is a really good example.
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gs68
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Post by gs68 »

Giga Wing. I love it, yet the bastards at GameSpot gave it a 4.4.

Then again I've only played the AC version and GameSpot reviewed the DC version, which I've never played.
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Acid King
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Post by Acid King »

gs68 wrote:Giga Wing. I love it, yet the bastards at GameSpot gave it a 4.4.

Then again I've only played the AC version and GameSpot reviewed the DC version, which I've never played.
They're pretty much the same. The Dreamcast version has a bit less slowdown, I believe.
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captpain wrote:Basically, the reason people don't like Bakraid is because they are fat and dumb
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undamned
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Post by undamned »

Jockel wrote:P.N.03! Fucking amazing game!
I had a great time w/ it. One of the GC games I actually put some real time into. Still need to try it in HD! :D
Mortificator wrote:
Matsunaga wrote:
m3tall1ca wrote: Same! And I never even got to beat it =/
I 4th that opinion, that game was awesome.
5th! The people who say Mega Man should stay 2D are fools!!
How about a Vitual ON style Megaman fighter?
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ForceDevice
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Post by ForceDevice »

kozo wrote: Suikoden V
No.

I absolutely love GSV, it's the best Suikoden and one of the best 128-bit jRPGs ever made IMO, but underrated it isn't. There's a big difference between "underrated/got bad reviews" and "sold poorly/almost no one played". Its sales were quite poor, and few people have bothered to play it, but I don't know a single one who did and disliked it.

IV, yes, that one is a good example of an underrated game.
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KindGrind
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Post by KindGrind »

EDF for X360. Last time I checked, I did spend 50 hours+ with the game. Great stuff.
Muchos años después, frente al pelotón de fusilamiento...
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