Ketsui Death Label

DBH87 · Post by **DBH87** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:49 pm

Just got the game im very impressed with it, currently on hard b

seiatsu · Post by **seiatsu** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:58 pm

yeah, the bullets are very fast in DL mode. Also, some patterns are tight especially on this little screen. not sure if it's possible to not bomb spam. Although, my first go at DL mode, I felt it impossible but I have improved a great deal since then so maybe it will be doable without bomb spam eventually.

I can say this, at one point, I thought Very Hard was a little tough. After playing DL mode for a bit and then returning to very hard, very hard feels like a walk in the park =p

power UP · Post by **power UP** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:38 am

Love the loop 2 superplay in the game.

Someone start a highscore thread already

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:04 am

HI SCORE THREAD

This will be my first so bear with me.

We need someone fluent to either translate one of the IKD things that talks about it or ask some of the foreign players; the issue of the game handing out lives next time you play in any given mode if you get game over is still confusing and I don't think we've heard a clear answer. Granted you take huge multiplier hits if you die or autobomb but this could encourage people to be a little more reckless with the bombs? In any case I wanted to start collecting scores and if you want to put how many lives you started the mode with at the time of getting the score, that's all you. It might help in the meantime. If it ends up drastically affecting scores I'll reboot the thread.

complexz · Post by **complexz** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:41 am

Now I'm not sure, it could be my ds's battery as I havent played it barely in months before ketsui.

But is it just me or does ketsui suck your battery dry really fast?

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:41 am

szycag wrote:HI SCORE THREAD

This will be my first so bear with me.

We need someone fluent to either translate one of the IKD things that talks about it or ask some of the foreign players; the issue of the game handing out lives next time you play in any given mode if you get game over is still confusing and I don't think we've heard a clear answer. Granted you take huge multiplier hits if you die or autobomb but this could encourage people to be a little more reckless with the bombs? In any case I wanted to start collecting scores and if you want to put how many lives you started the mode with at the time of getting the score, that's all you. It might help in the meantime. If it ends up drastically affecting scores I'll reboot the thread.

Of course it will end up drastically affecting scores. As it stands, the scoring system in this game is broken.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:01 am

Why doesn't the high score board list the number of lives the player started with? And what's this number of players thing with the stars under each score? I know I've had up to 7 or so lives on a lot of those scores I got and it only ever says 0 or 1. I assume it had something to do with multiplayer.

As it looks right now yes it's very broken. But I have no way to rationalize why they would do something so boneheaded.

VxD · Post by **VxD** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:37 am

The number of lives given by the game at the beginning of a course is maxed to 20.
So no score breaking mechanism here, just deliberately lose until you reach this number and then play for score.

FYI, the number of lives in Doom mode or Extra does not change (3 for Doom, 2 for extra).

Oh, and one of the Cave Report unlocks in the game is when you reached 20 lives in every course.

So I see no problem eventually.

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:11 am

OK, so the default number of lives for this scoring system to make sense is 20

They should have set the default life stock at three, then given you the OPTION to increase it yourself in the options screen. Stupid.

High scores should be limited to Doom and Extra modes

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:14 am

Perhaps I should move those two modes up to the top of the list.

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:21 am

For the regular game (assuming everyone starts at 20 lives default) you might want to add a column for how many lives you have remaining when you finish the course too.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:28 am

I'm reluctant to do that because on the course clear screen it doesn't even tell you. *shrug*

I have a theory that the extra lives only make it unfair because people who otherwise couldn't reach the end of the course can.

Someone with 20 lives dies 20 times (they got a 1up maybe on the battleships) and triggers the autobomb each of those lives. The loss to their multiplier, MMM said 25% off of it each time, would be dire. It would have to be worth it for the person to take that hit to their multiplier to get more bombs, which would just mean a couple screens worth of eaten bullets- I don't think even with that the cut to your multiplier would be worth it. Someone with the default lives who never dies or autobombs would have an insane multiplier by the end so those scores would beat the people trying to get extra bombs to eat bullets easily. There doesn't seem to be any extra bonus for leftover lives or bombs at the end of each part from what I saw.

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:22 am

henry dark wrote:High scores should be limited to Doom and Extra modes

Why? The point of the game is to get a high score not just clear it. If everyone has 20 lives then it's an equal playing field. Even with so many lives there is a lot involved with getting high scores as MMM has shown with his scores that are a great deal higher than other players who also have 20 lives.

I agree that its weird to have the life stock so high but it doesn't mean the scoring is broken at all.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:37 am

So, I haven´t crunched numbers yet as I´m terribly bad at this, but is it profitable at any point in the game to suicide for new bombs to milk patterns for red chips? I hope not...

And I´ll be joining the hi-score board as soon as my *actual* copy finally arrives. (cough cough, hey I already bought it, okay?)

complexz wrote:Now I'm not sure, it could be my ds's battery as I havent played it barely in months before ketsui.
But is it just me or does ketsui suck your battery dry really fast?

I´m the same here but then again, as I said, I have yet to play the retail version. But this might as well be the case, I don´t think that all the stuff onscreen is very easy on the batteries.

But on the other hand, I refuse to play it on anything other than the highest brightness setting.

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:38 am

NTSC-J wrote:
henry dark wrote:High scores should be limited to Doom and Extra modes
Why? The point of the game is to get a high score not just clear it. If everyone has 20 lives then it's an equal playing field. Even with so many lives there is a lot involved with getting high scores as MMM has shown with his scores that are a great deal higher than other players who also have 20 lives.

I agree that its weird to have the life stock so high but it doesn't mean the scoring is broken at all.

If we're all starting with 20 stock lives, then fine. That wasn't what I was talking about before though.

They still should have let you set that yourself though blah blah

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:13 am

Death Label Mode is a bitch :<
I can get to Doom and get him to his last pattern but he kills me then.

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:57 am

Frederik wrote:So, I haven´t crunched numbers yet as I´m terribly bad at this, but is it profitable at any point in the game to suicide for new bombs to milk patterns for red chips? I hope not...

I wouldn't worry- you die so often in this game anyway that all your 'suicides' will be accidental.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:01 pm

henry dark wrote:
Frederik wrote:So, I haven´t crunched numbers yet as I´m terribly bad at this, but is it profitable at any point in the game to suicide for new bombs to milk patterns for red chips? I hope not...
I wouldn't worry- you die so often in this game anyway that all your 'suicides' will be accidental.

Dying in Ketsui DS is very detrimental to your score, so ideally you want to die as little as possible. The only mode where you'll be dying often is Death Label, but even then, it's more than possible to dodge every pattern in it.

What I've pieced together so far:

1: Don't die
2: Don't autobomb
3: Use both shot types

brand1bil · Post by **brand1bil** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:31 pm

Has anyone ordered this from YesAsia? Do their copies come with the DVD as well?

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:34 pm

The whole thing, DS game and DVD comes packaged in a sexy box as standard, so yeah, you'll be getting a DVD the same as everyone else

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:56 pm

MX7 wrote:
henry dark wrote:
Frederik wrote:So, I haven´t crunched numbers yet as I´m terribly bad at this, but is it profitable at any point in the game to suicide for new bombs to milk patterns for red chips? I hope not...
I wouldn't worry- you die so often in this game anyway that all your 'suicides' will be accidental.
Dying in Ketsui DS is very detrimental to your score, so ideally you want to die as little as possible. The only mode where you'll be dying often is Death Label, but even then, it's more than possible to dodge every pattern in it.

Honestly?

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:48 pm

Seriously, there's no point in suiciding here if you're playing for score. The extra lives are just a way of trying to make the game more appealing to a wider range of players by giving them a realistic chance of getting to the end of each level.

Death fucks with your multipler, it's as simple as that. I see no broken here.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:25 pm

Thanks, as I said I didn´t look at how the score works at all yet, so I just wanted to clear that up

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:55 pm

Honestly?

Very much so. The game has been out what, a week? You need to spend some more time with it before saying it's too hard

seiatsu · Post by **seiatsu** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:56 pm

I propose MrMonkeyMan does a mini ST for this game since he seems to know all the little scoring tricks and holds high scores that are respectibly higher than the others (of the few posted) ;p

Not sure how much this would differ from the regular Ketsui ST though or if it'd be worthwhile.

What I'm most curious about are speed kills (or shortcuts) initially as I'm not playing for score too much just yet (although I will very soon). I know that you can kill Cinderella much faster by taking out it's option once it's released (for lack of better terms). I wonder if there are other little tricks like that.

MrMonkeyMan · Post by **MrMonkeyMan** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:18 pm

I'll gladly offer advice, and share what I know, but I'm not too keen on starting up a strategy thread.

If you're looking for speed kills, there's not much more to it than locking on to an enemy and keeping your laser connected as long as possible. There are a couple bosses where there are little tricks to make things go a little faster.

Jamadhar
For the second life segment, when he has those two giant grey chunks protecting the main part you can lock on to the main section, and then move over to the side so your laser is hitting the grey metal chunk. This should allow two of your lock shots a line of fire to the main section. I added a picture because that might not make sense to anyone but me.

Or you can lock on and camp on top of the main section while you use bombs to keep yourself invincible. You'll use a lot of bombs this way though.

Cinderella Amber
For the first life segment of Cinderella Amber you may find that your lock shots are aiming all over the place. This is because you locked on to those floating triangles instead of the actual boss. To make sure you lock on the boss don't hold down the lock shot button until you can actually start damaging the boss. If you hold your lock laser over the boss before you can actually lock on you will always end up locking on to the floating triangle things.

And now some bad news. It seems tapping the lock shot button in short bursts will get you far more chips than simply holding the button down. This is because you get the same amount of chips no matter how many locks you have. So you let go of the lock, and start a new lock before all your options lock on. You do less damage, but get the same amount of chips.

I doubt anyone will be taking advantage of this on the harder courses, but it sure makes the easier courses a lot less fun.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:33 pm

MrMonkeyMan wrote: And now some bad news. It seems tapping the lock shot button in short bursts will get you far more chips than simply holding the button down. This is because you get the same amount of chips no matter how many locks you have. So you let go of the lock, and start a new lock before all your options lock on. You do less damage, but get the same amount of chips.

I doubt anyone will be taking advantage of this on the harder courses, but it sure makes the easier courses a lot less fun.

I was kind of suspecting this when I noticed that only the front laser gives you boxes

On a sidenote, what actually causes the options to lock? I have the feeling that the closer you are to an enemy the faster the options will lock. Do you know if there is a lock speed difference between the two ships?

And thanks for the great input

MrMonkeyMan · Post by **MrMonkeyMan** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:42 pm

Type A locks on faster than Type B. The closer you are to your target the faster you will lock on. I imagine this means you could milk even more chips using that tapping method with the Type B, except you can time out most bosses doing this trick with the Type A.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:46 pm

Thanks!

seiatsu · Post by **seiatsu** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:34 pm

Shit..DL Mode is killing me. I can't beat it yet. I guess it's me but feels like i can't get into position to dodge the next pattern sometimes so I die / auto-bomb too much.

i'd be curious to see a winning run on DL so I could see what I'm overlooking.

I think I'm too anxious to try Extra Mode so in some cases it could be me rushing too