Linux Help

A place where you can chat about anything that isn't to do with games!
User avatar
tommyb
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 3:48 am
Location: Kansas City, MO

Linux Help

Post by tommyb »

I've been wanting to switch to Linux for awhile, but I really don't know the first thing about it. Can someone help me figure out what distro to use, and explain to me some of the basic functionality of it, like installing things for example?

I know this is a super noob question, but hey, I figured if anyone could help me out, you guys could :D

Oh, adn I know HOW to install Linux, and I even know how to partition my drive to have two operating systems running at once, I just need to actually know how to use the damn thing.

Thanks! ^_^
junkeR
Posts: 775
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 3:29 pm

Post by junkeR »

I would definitely recommend Ubuntu. You can easily install/uninstall programs by selecting "Add/Remove Programs..." on the applications menu.

Definitely the best for starters!
http://ubuntu.com
User avatar
kernow
Posts: 1225
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Plymouth, Devon, UK

Post by kernow »

Yeah, Ubuntu is good for a beginner for sure.

Only problem with all these new distros is you never have to get your hands dirty like 10yrs ago, which is a shame because you do a lot of learning by your mistakes, cocking things up, making it not boot properly, failing to rebuild kernels etc.

oh well, Ubuntu is still great :)
User avatar
tommyb
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 3:48 am
Location: Kansas City, MO

Post by tommyb »

Cool, thank you. I dunno, I remember why I had so many problems with it now, too.

The mouse I had wasn't supported by Ubuntu for some reason? haha so I just said screw it and scrapped the whole thing.
User avatar
Davey
Posts: 1605
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: Toledo, OH

Post by Davey »

A lot of people swear by PCLinuxOS when it comes to distros that "just work" (I've seen it referred to as the "distro hopper stopper"). But yeah, Ubuntu is the standard these days, so it might be the best one to go with from a community support standpoint.

Having said that, I don't use Linux, nor will I until I have a good reason to. I tried it several years ago, but it was like a solution looking for a problem. XP does everything I need with no fuss (and less headaches than Linux). Most popular open source applications are cross platform anyway.
User avatar
tommyb
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 3:48 am
Location: Kansas City, MO

Post by tommyb »

Davey wrote:
Having said that, I don't use Linux, nor will I until I have a good reason to. I tried it several years ago, but it was like a solution looking for a problem. XP does everything I need with no fuss (and less headaches than Linux). Most popular open source applications are cross platform anyway.
I like the 'headaches', though. I like having to figure out problems and solve them myself, haha. I think that's half the joy of using Linux.
User avatar
Davey
Posts: 1605
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: Toledo, OH

Post by Davey »

tommyb wrote:I like the 'headaches', though. I like having to figure out problems and solve them myself, haha. I think that's half the joy of using Linux.
Then Slackware should be right up your alley. Or maybe one of the BSDs.
captpain
Posts: 1783
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:23 am

Post by captpain »

Use Ubuntu and use their official forums for questions.

Ubuntu is what everyone uses nowadays and it's by far and away the easiest distro to deal with.
User avatar
damakable
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:55 am
Location: In the sky.

Post by damakable »

It's not even all about having fun solving problems, or even the politics of open-source. If you're serious about being a sysadmin or you just want more fine-tuned control of your PC, linux is the way to go. I find that Microsoft, by doing so much automatically for you in the background, feels like it's trying to control your life. If you don't like the default settings, it can be a pain to try to change them -- and that's not even taking into account the restrictions of DRM and related nonsense. Whereas in linux all too often there are no defaults and if you want something done you have to learn to do it yourself. But the upshot is that once you've configured something in 'nix and know it inside-out, it will be stable and act the way you expect it to. Linux never tries to do anything without express instructions from the user. So if you want to run a web-server that doesn't have the overhead of running a windowing system and isn't going to crash for no apparent reason once a week, it's time to learn to use Linux. (Keep in mind I haven't any experience with commercial server editions of Windows, but from what I gather there are good reasons Linux is the most popular choice for servers, and then of course it's also free...)

It's the age-old trade-off between ease of use and power. If you want greater control you're going to have to spend more time learning to use the tools, no matter what you're doing.

That said, I only made the switch to Linux seriously this summer, so I never truly had to "get my hands dirty" (though I knew DOS commands before I could read and write in English, my native tongue...); I'm currently dual-booting XP and Ubuntu. I need XP for games of course, and to fall back on when I just need to get something done right away and don't have the time at the moment to learn how to do it in 'nix. But gradually I'm spending more and more time in Ubuntu. I'm doing all my software and web development in Linux and love that I'm finally coming to grips with the command line as it lets me do things I'd never dream of doing in Windows. There's really no comparison between shell scripts and batch files...

On the other hand, when I get more serious about homebrewing a shmup of my own I'll be going back to Windows, partly because that's the target market and partly to learn Visual Studio in depth, as that's something employers are bound to be looking for. But I'll continue using Linux for everything else and I'll continue to recommend it to any one who's serious about having control over their computer.

Try http://www.linuxselfhelp.com as a general-purpose linux resource, and remember Google (guess what group puts the most information online for free... that's right, it's open-source software developers :)). Learn about Man (manual) files. Learn to use a package manager like apt-get (Ubuntu comes with the Synaptic Package Manager, and it's a breeze to use) -- these tools actually make installing new software even more painless than self-installing executables in Windows -- just search for what you're looking for, check them off on the list, and click "Install". Package managers will take care of dependencies for you (a common source of problems for newcomers) and recommend sources of information if errors do occur.
Image
User avatar
tommyb
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 3:48 am
Location: Kansas City, MO

Post by tommyb »

Wow, thanks for that in depth response :)

Now my only issue is my mouse quits working about 1 minute after booting into Ubuntu -_-
User avatar
damakable
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:55 am
Location: In the sky.

Post by damakable »

Here's some useful advice I found after a google search for "linux usb mouse.stops.working":
Cabhan of linuxforums.org wrote:Hrm. Indeed, this seems to be an unfortunate problem.

One suggestion seems to be removing the USB module and reloading it. Run these commands from a terminal, as root:

rmmod usb-uhci
modprobe usb-uhci

Since your mouse won't be working, you can press Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get access to a console. Ctrl-Alt-F7 returns you to X.

It has also been suggested that changing the USB module in your kernel will help. I don't know if you're comfortable working with the kernel, but if you are, you might try that.

Finally, if none of that works, what model of mouse do you have? It is possible that this mouse simply does not work with the kernel, though that would be unfortunate.
I would also suggest trying it through the PS/2 port if you have another mouse or an adapter. Going the 'changing your USB module' route probably requires you to read this book or at least this chapter, not that I've done that myself, so good luck figuring out all that nonsense. :P Keep in mind that the more documentation you read and the more you follow along with the commands, the better you'll get at troubleshooting. You'll find yourself coming back to the same configuration files and gradually you'll get to know the system better. But for just getting the mouse to work I'd recommend trying the quick fix first!
Image
User avatar
tommyb
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 3:48 am
Location: Kansas City, MO

Post by tommyb »

I do have a PS/2 adapter somewhere, I'll have to find it when I get home from work.

Thanks for all your help ^_^

(btw I hate posting from my phone, the keyboard on the HTC Touch isn't exactly...well, good. haha)
User avatar
GaijinPunch
Posts: 15853
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:22 pm
Location: San Fransicso

Post by GaijinPunch »

The problem w/ the Distros that "just work" is that they kind of go against the whole idea of the user having granular control of the system. Redhat is the worst offendor I've seen. The kernel has literally EVERYTHING enabled, which is not what you want.

Gentoo is a great distro, but is defintiely not for noobs. At least not the startup. It is a great way to learn some of the finer points of the OS though.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
User avatar
kernow
Posts: 1225
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Plymouth, Devon, UK

Post by kernow »

Yeah, you'll definitely learn more about the Linux system itself (not gnome, or KDE, or the apps) by running a bare metal distro such as gentoo or slackware.

You get a lot of satisfaction when you get something working too.
User avatar
t0yrobo
Posts: 665
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:17 am
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Post by t0yrobo »

Ubuntu is a great place to start, bang your head against your desk for awhile and eventually get a good handle on things. It has a really awesome community to work with. Once you get a good idea of what you like and learn more then start looking at more distros.
User avatar
Davey
Posts: 1605
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: Toledo, OH

Post by Davey »

Disclaimer: If I sound like a dick, I apologize in advance. I'm just curious about a few things.
damakable wrote:I find that Microsoft, by doing so much automatically for you in the background, feels like it's trying to control your life. If you don't like the default settings, it can be a pain to try to change them
Such as? I hear this a lot, but people never seem to give examples. For me, I never really feel like Windows is ever getting in my way. Learning Linux is a good idea if you plan on doing sysadmin work one day (or to satisfy your own intellectual curiosity), but I don't see the benefit for regular users, except that there's no crapware to accidentally install.
damakable wrote:So if you want to run a web-server that doesn't have the overhead of running a windowing system and isn't going to crash for no apparent reason once a week, it's time to learn to use Linux
Windows Server 2008 can be run without the GUI.

The Server versions of Windows are really stable AFAIK. Having a good sysadmin is important, though. Of course, that applies to *nix too.
damakable wrote:I'm currently dual-booting XP and Ubuntu. I need XP for games of course, and to fall back on when I just need to get something done right away and don't have the time at the moment to learn how to do it in 'nix. But gradually I'm spending more and more time in Ubuntu.
I tried dual booting for a while, but I went in the opposite direction. I defaulted to Linux and fell back on Windows as needed. But I found myself just sticking in Windows because it was easier. Why research how to do everything I do in Windows when I can just do it in Windows? My day-to-day usage must be pretty basic I guess.
damakable wrote:I'm doing all my software and web development in Linux and love that I'm finally coming to grips with the command line as it lets me do things I'd never dream of doing in Windows. There's really no comparison between shell scripts and batch files...
PowerShell is supposed to address this, but I've never used it.

What kind of development do you do? Love or hate MS, Visual Studio is a great development environment (for .NET, anyway, not sure about C++). Even Slashdotters will admit to this.
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Unfortunately, most people don't have the time to really figure out a system, and don't have a computer free to screw around with. Of course, on Windows this means you lose all your photos every five years (due to HDD crashes lol), but at least in the post-UAC world there's going to be less opportunity for naive users to fatally screw things. I wish that people would learn some of the basics of computer security so they aren't doing things that imperil their own security, but it's not realistic to expect people to ever learn. With Windows, it's probably just going to work somehow - maybe very slowly, but it should still work.

I think it's fun to create a fake analogy to resource usage. Apple or unconfigured Windows way = everything preconfigured and hopefully easy to browse, everything's easy, but also some waste, and you throw away your control unless you're a savvy user. Configured Windows or Linux = driving a WV Rabbit because of the 60 MPG highway figure :D

Random note - I discovered one of my friends doesn't have a driver installed for the graphics chipset on his laptop. VGA shows up as a yellow point in Device Manager, and yet he figured that our university's mandatory Cisco Clean Access Agent would mess with the programs specially installed on his laptop by his dad (like uh a probably ancient copy of McAfee). Sheesh...I will attest to CAA's shittiness though.
User avatar
tommyb
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 3:48 am
Location: Kansas City, MO

Post by tommyb »

Ugh, this is a nightmare. Ubuntu runs super slow, slow to the point where it's unusable. I can't figure out how to install any drivers, and when I try to install the Nvidia driver from the Add/Remove Programs list, it gives me an error telling me it can't communicate with the server (I think that's what it said). My mouse still craps out on me every now and again, after trying all the fixes (I realized my computer doesn't have a PS/2 port. wtf.)

Frustratingggg.

100th post!!!
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Congrats on 100 posts. Monroe County, MI? I gotta look that up on a map (SW Michigan here, Kalamazoo as I type this).
User avatar
tommyb
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 3:48 am
Location: Kansas City, MO

Post by tommyb »

Ed Oscuro wrote:Congrats on 100 posts. Monroe County, MI? I gotta look that up on a map (SW Michigan here, Kalamazoo as I type this).
I'm as South East as you can get in Michigan, well, my county is. I'm about 35 minutes north of downtown Toledo, if that helps any.


EDIT: Still a nightmare. Help.
User avatar
GaijinPunch
Posts: 15853
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:22 pm
Location: San Fransicso

Post by GaijinPunch »

How did you install it? I've never used Ubuntu, but I know it has a similar package manager like gentoo does. In this situation, you install programs (and even drivers) in the terminal. I've always found this better than package installers.

To Davey:

I boot my Windows machine (non MAME) a few times a week mainly to use a handful of apps that are only on Windows (or expensive ones I have licenses to, like Photoshop). Other than that, I've found that the basic Unix tools are unbeatable. Perl, sed/awk/grep, the konsole in general, partitioning, find, slocate, various shells, etc. etc. Not to mention all the open source software (gcc, etc), standard for all apps to have a config file and log file to help debugging, and so on and so forth.

If you're not into "getting the most out of your machine" Windows will do just fine.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
User avatar
ReKleSS
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:38 am

Post by ReKleSS »

I'd guess it's running slow because of the nvidia drivers - Ubuntu runs fairly fancy graphical stuff on the desktop, and it will be painful without hardware acceleration. You'll probably get much better help at the Ubuntu forums, but the first thing is to get more precise errors, this is not helping. When your mouse goes, do 'dmesg' at the console and see if there's anything suspicious (USB or mouse related) at the bottom.

I've gotten so used to my Linux workflow Windows is too much of a pain to do anything with. I have a virtualized install for AVRStudio, but that's it. wmii is very nice to use, and makes using a 4MP monitor practical - no manual shuffling of windows and adjusting sizes. No menus, no unnecessary graphical guff...
弾もまたいで通る
User avatar
tommyb
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 3:48 am
Location: Kansas City, MO

Post by tommyb »

I did the "from inside Windows" install, so I'd assume my problem lies somewhere in the fact that I did that?
User avatar
GaijinPunch
Posts: 15853
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:22 pm
Location: San Fransicso

Post by GaijinPunch »

tommyb wrote:I did the "from inside Windows" install, so I'd assume my problem lies somewhere in the fact that I did that?
Not necessarily. The one thing that computers of all platforms share though, is that you're probably not the first person to experience the problem. Google is your friend. Ubuntu forums is your horny, 18 year old cheerleader girlfriend who habitually waxes.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
User avatar
Davey
Posts: 1605
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: Toledo, OH

Post by Davey »

GaijinPunch wrote:If you're not into "getting the most out of your machine" Windows will do just fine.
Yeah that's pretty much the conclusion I came to (obviously). It was somewhat educational to try it out, but it didn't really make sense to use Linux for the sake of using Linux.

I thought Cygwin would get you most of the stuff you listed. Of course, if you primarily work in that environment anyway, it makes more sense to just use Linux.
captpain
Posts: 1783
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:23 am

Post by captpain »

damakable wrote:I would also suggest trying it through the PS/2 port if you have another mouse or an adapter. Going the 'changing your USB module' route probably requires you to read this book or at least this chapter, not that I've done that myself, so good luck figuring out all that nonsense. :P Keep in mind that the more documentation you read and the more you follow along with the commands, the better you'll get at troubleshooting. You'll find yourself coming back to the same configuration files and gradually you'll get to know the system better. But for just getting the mouse to work I'd recommend trying the quick fix first!
Nothing like having to compile code and execute a series of archaic commands just to get your fucking mouse working.

I love Linux, I'm quite knowledgeable about it, but this sort of crap has to stop cropping up.
User avatar
GaijinPunch
Posts: 15853
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:22 pm
Location: San Fransicso

Post by GaijinPunch »

I thought Cygwin would get you most of the stuff you listed. Of course, if you primarily work in that environment anyway, it makes more sense to just use Linux.
I just bought a MacBook Pro for work b/c Windows sucks so bad at that Unix-like environment.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
User avatar
Davey
Posts: 1605
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: Toledo, OH

Post by Davey »

I wasn't sure about that, I just knew it existed. I read things like "________ works under Cygwin", but it doesn't seem like a lot of people actually use it often. I've gotten the vibe that it's kind of a crutch for Unix people when they're stuck using Windows for whatever reason.
User avatar
GaijinPunch
Posts: 15853
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:22 pm
Location: San Fransicso

Post by GaijinPunch »

It doesn't even come w/ SSH though. I use putty through good old MS-Dos window when I have to. I'd rather not bother though to be honest. Feels all weird... like sleeping w/ a relative or something.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
e_tank
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:04 am

Post by e_tank »

ms-dos *shudders*, when i have to use windows i always use cygwin for things like ssh, feels a lot more natural.

for my main os i use arch linux, which is another "bare metal" distro. i used to use gentoo and liked everything except the time i had to spend compiling. arch is similar to gentoo (comparisons), binary based but it does have tools to build its packages from source when you need to fine tune them. i had enough of gentoo after a small system update would have required me to recompile every package that used X, i switched a few years ago and couldn't be happier. i find that it's much easier to resolve problems with these types of distros than with something like (x)ubuntu, which i've setup for other people. (x)ubuntu comes with so much already pre-configured and a lot of the scripts they use are really large and complicated so it can be tough to figure out exactly what's going on or where to even look to pinpoint a particular problem. whereas with arch you're responsible for setting up much of your own system so you're already kind of familiar with it from the get go.

@tommyb:
i _really_ recommend you try getting support from within a linux chat room as well, such as ubuntu's or you can even join a smaller distro's chat room like arch's (i'm sure they'll still provide help). since you're new and your system is unfamiliar to you it will probably take a lot of back and forth communication for someone to help you find the causes.
for the slowness as ReKleSS pointed out it's probably due to not having hardware video acceleration. as your having problems connecting to ubuntu's package servers to dl the nvidia binary drivers i not sure how to fix that, someone familiar with ubuntu would have to help you there.
for the mouse it could be a bunch of things such as the mouse driver (could try using a generic one), usb driver (might have to set a parameter to pass to it), buggy bios (can work around by using specific kernel parameters or better yet look into updating your bios). a quick search for ubuntu+mouse+stops+working returns a lot of results showing people with the same problem but there doesn't seem to be a specific cause/fix for everyone.
Post Reply