Welcome to MOTHER3 World! English Patch is out!

A place where you can chat about anything that isn't to do with games!
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szycag
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Welcome to MOTHER3 World! English Patch is out!

Post by szycag »

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By the end of the week, the full english script patch for Mother 3, the sequel to the game the west knows as Earthbound, will finally be available on the internet after 2 and a half years in the making.

http://mother3.fobby.net

I've anticipated this more than any other game, even when it was still on the release schedule for the Nintendo 64DD. Time to use up those sick days!

EXCITEMENT

Surely there are some fans of these games on shmups. Let's share memories of Earthbound, and once the game comes out, our first experiences/gameplay tips. NO SPOILERS

EDIT: It's out now! Let's play!
Last edited by szycag on Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aleanil
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Post by Aleanil »

I can't wait! I've been following progress since the mother3.org translation, and then the merged translation, and now finally! A release! My memorial play of Earthbound will have to be fast to finish before the patch hits. I only made it to Moonside last night.

Anyway! Mother3! :D
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Post by MX7 »

Lol. I've been looking forward to this since first year of university. Now I've graduated, and it's finally coming out :o

Seriously, this is going to be awesome. I know there's been a lot of bitching and moaning about how long it's taken, but the fact that it's such a professional product, and not some hack a schoolboy with a hex-editor has guffed out in his spare time makes this really worth anticipating. I know nothing about this game, save for the spoilers that SSBB inferred ( :( ) so it should be a pretty fresh experience.

One question: how is everyone going to play it? I got a flash cart specially for it about a year ago, but I've had issues with save states, so I think I'm just going to blow it up to an adequate size in visualboy advance and play it on a SNES pad. I love handheld games so dearly that it seems a real shame to not be playing it on an actual GBA/DS, but I don't think it's worth the risk of loosing my save game :(
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Post by Aleanil »

I'm going to play it on my ooooold x-rom 512 on either my DS Lite, my GBA Micro, or my Gamecube via GBA Player. I'll see how it looks on each. :) There's some hex editing involved for me, but newer flash cards shouldn't have any problem. Original hardware > emulation, every time.
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Post by Limbrooke »

I too have been following the progress of this project since the earliest days of mother3.org and it is nice to see it finally be coming to an end. Now I can just look forward to the Policenauts translation.

All the same, it's good to have come out now as over the past year I finally started a game and beat Giygas this past summer and it was pretty satisfying. Easily one of the few rpg's I can begin and see to completion while enjoying it along the way. That and managing to get the Sword of the Kings.

My fondest memory of EarthBound probably comes from first taking off in the Skyrunner. What great music.
Aleanil wrote:My memorial play of Earthbound will have to be fast to finish before the patch hits. I only made it to Moonside last night.
Moonside eh. There's only a couple days left, if you slog it out you should be able to make it.
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Post by DEL »

Been waiting for this for millennia http://mother3.fobby.net/
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Post by Necronopticous »

I just came in my pants.
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Post by Elixir »

Is it safe to say it'll run without any issues via emulation? I don't really want to buy the 3-in-1 thing just to play it on my DS Lite.
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Post by Icarus »

Holy fuck, pants creamed. Do want.
If only SNES emulation didn't suck so much on the PSP, I'd be playing some Earthbound right now.
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Post by Aleanil »

I gotta say though, the game looks absolutely great on actual hardware. It’s nice on emulators, but the real deal is… wow. Here are some pics, though they’re not great examples: GBA Micro 1, GBA Micro 2. Certain things in the game - particularly the musical battle combo system - will lag with emulators, just because of how emulators work. But actual hardware doesn’t have that problem. You can probably get accustomed to your emulator’s lag with time, though.
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Post by Battlesmurf »

I remember the forum touching briefly upon repro carts before- that the discussion about them is okay- just not telling people where to get them. So- I'm going to try to avoid anything that is against the rules.

That being said- is there really a GBA repro 'scene'? There's a tiny one for Genesis and whatnot- I just kinda think it'd be cool to have a cart/box/manual for something like this.
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Post by Momijitsuki »

Oh god, I am so psyched. I didn't know there was anyone translating it, so this was a pleasant surprise when I heard about this yesterday.
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Post by Aquas »

Been following the project from the start. It's really great it's finally coming out. I think I'll be conceding to playing it via emulator on the computer.

WOOOOO!!!!

I recently played through Mother 1 as well, to prepare for this release. Which I also enjoyed.
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Post by Neon »

I don't usually like RPG's, is there a chance I'll like Earthbound?
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Post by Limbrooke »

Neon wrote:I don't usually like RPG's, is there a chance I'll like Earthbound?
Depends on what appeals to you. I felt the presentation as a whole was very interesting and so much so that I played through it twice to date (only one completion). I can't say that about any other rpg. It's challenging and sometimes you'll want to level up, but thankfully there are certain enemies who are weak that will give lots of experience. Not only, but you can nearly pick all your battles. It's really flexible.

Personally, I think it's better than the Dragon Quests, at least the ones I've played to date (DQ5 & DQ8) and it's more enjoyable than many other ones too. It's worth a try anyway. I say if you play and get to Twoson and you aren't digging it, that's probably it. In the end, it's up to you.
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Post by Big Pockets »

I am extremely excited about this! But I suddenly feel the need to go through Earthbound at least half way through just to bring back that fresh love of Earthbound. It has been a long time.
I remember when Earthbound first came out it didn't sell so hot. After a while I saw a pile of Earthbound boxes in Wal-mart's super discount sale bin for $15 each. I really wanted a copy but I didn't buy it because I had the Sega Genesis and by best friend had the SNES. Psssh, stupid kids not buying games for systems they don't have. Now, a good copy with box and players guide is worth its weight in gold.

Best Parts: Onett, Saturn Valley, Moonside, Threed w/ zombies, Happy Happy Village, and Dungeon Man.

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Post by DEL »

Neon wrote;
I don't usually like RPG's, is there a chance I'll like Earthbound?
There's just something about Earthbound (Mother 2). I think its the atmosphere.
Like Limbrooke, its the only RPG I've played through twice. I will play it through at least one more time, then get going on this new one.
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Post by szycag »

Yahtzee likes it. And that guy doesn't like a lot of stuff. Especially Nintendo and JRPGS.
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Post by Aquas »

I've played through EarthBound nearly more than 10 times. It's a masterpiece of video gaming heart as far as I'm concerned. And I expect no less from Mother 3, which seems to emphasize emotional stories of children and adults. The humour is one of the lasting appeals of EarthBound, it's a little bit cheesy at times, but original and loveable at the same time.

The game altered my life in many ways, as well.

I think one of the interesting things about it, too, is that a lot of the story is up to the player's interpretation. Hey, here's my chance to plug 2dgaming!

Check out my review of it. http://2dgaming.site90.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=323
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Post by CMoon »

I don't own the console Earthbound is on, however I wonder if it is available for download on the wii?

Also, how well does the emulation run?
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Post by JoshF »

Giygas, Zizek, Lynch: interpretation of the horror of Giygas
by Erostratus

Before I begin my interpretation, I´d like to say a few points. First, I´m not a native English speaker, so, if my grammar is incorrect while trying to explain these really obscure and abstruse matters, I apologize. And, second, since this interpretation tries to use some psychoanalytical and philosophical notions, I am aware that these don´t pretend to be the absolute truth behind the game and are more symbolical than literal, so I´ll take any critique as long as they are aware that I´m only trying to render an interpretation that may be imperfect. Third, to the guys who like philosophy or psychoanalysis: anyone who disagrees on my reading of Zizek here, all critiques are welcome: I´m only a student of literature. And also, I might add that I am by no means a materialist as Zizek (I like more Schopenhauer than Hegel), but I believe his analysis bring a new light in matters like popular culture, theology and Capitalism (that is, the strong materialist subjects).

Well, I came up with this interpretation because I saw the disturbing deleted final boss scene of Mother 3. Even if I consider no one can make a definitive theory about how this would fit in the storyline, I was fascinated merely because of the form of the deleted boss, the presentation of this hidden battle, since it reminded me strongly of the original horror felt while playing against the Mother 2 Giygas. I kept looking for theories and I just read the topic about the “baby” issue in Giygas and the Itoi reference about Giygas concept and lines coming from his traumatic childhood experience of entering the wrong movie and seeing a rape scene. I read the interpretations made about this topic and the arguments against them, and I will like to give a little critical hint on Giygas figure which may be useful. Why is he so terrifying? I´ll risk an approach based on the philosophy of Slavoj Zizek, which is a (perhaps problematic) re-reading of Hegel and Lacan. I know it sounds pretentious, however, I´m deeply striked how these notions clarify the idea behind the game witouth falling in cliché symbolisms or “deep” meanings which say nothing. What one sees in Giygas (or on the deleted battle scene of Mother 3) is, immediately, the pure horror of what Lacan called “The Real”, that is, all which resists being symbolized or interpreted. It is the secret core of our being, but remains unknown and it is impossible to give account to it in a symbolic form. It is a traumatic secret, something very dark which troubles and torment us. An example of the Real is what is called the "real real", that is, the things that convey horror, like in horror films.

In the case of Earthbound, Itoi himself said the Giygas scene was based on a traumatical experience, well known by we all, which kept in his mind while writing EB lines: “In other words, there was this sense of terror having atrocity and eroticism side-by-side, and that’s what Giygas’ lines at the end are. During the end, he says, “It hurts,” right? That’s… her breast. It’s like, how do I put it, a “living-being” sensation”. So, in the first place, we have a brilliant fictional render of the encounter with a “Real”, a traumatical horror. Now, it would be too obvious and rather useless (and definitely tasteless) to point the classical psychoanalytical notions here: that Giygas is really the symbol of a primary scene trauma (that is, the kid watching adults making love and trying to explain this shock with a fantasy about his own origin, etc), and that the symbolism of the baby forming becomes clear and “Mother” is just an obscure reference to the character edipical search for his own origin in the form of a quest to banish the original evil, etc… Even if there could be some truth in all of this, it becomes too obvious this is the case of a “bad” interpretation, since it relies on a pseudo Freudian sexual symbolism that has been shown to be outdated and a misinterpretation. I´ll better like to stress how Itoi is playing with our player minds here at it´s deepest level.

In the figure of Giygas we deal with the idea of “The thing”, the alien, the all mighty entity which tries to enslave humanity and take possession of everything with it´s incredible power. It is a kind of absolute substance which ultimate form is horror. But why, beyond its enormous power, this “all-mighty idiot” remains so disturbing, more than any other boss in a videogame? As the philosopher Slavoj Zizek would say, the fear that comes from this “thing from outer space” is, paradoxically, because it is a “thing from the inner space”, something deep in our minds. But what is this thing? The notion that helps us to understand the idea of absolute horror rendered here is the Freudian notion of Tanatos, death drive, which is NOT the will to destroy everything, but the will to persist eternally in a drive or desire even if what remains is a naked impulse to live deprived of everything else. Think about “undead”, zombies: the zombie is not life or dead, but something like life , deprived of all except for the drive to move and consume, the life at it´s naked dimension, the undead life that is eternal. Tanatos is the will to persist in life even beyond the destruction of the subject. That is, immortality as the ultimate horror. But this energy of undeadness is precisely the core of our psyche. As Zizek says in his analysis of “Alien”: “There´s a fundamental imbalance, a gap, between our psychic energy, which Freud called Libido, that endless, undead energy which persists beyond life and dead, and the pure finite mortal reality of our bodies. The lesson that we must learn and that the movies try to avoid is that we are the “aliens” controlling our bodies: humanity means the “aliens” are controlling our animal bodies. Our ego is an alien force controlling our body.” What has this to do with Giygas? What we see in Giygas is the core of our very subjectivity as players, our “Real”. These horrible face is the very secret of our psychic energy, the core of our “will to play”, the naked incarnation of the input we put in a game and that comes from our inner dimension (beyond us as individuals). This energy corresponds with the Libido Zizek talks about, not merely as a “sexual energy” but as the psychic energy in general, the psychic input of all our activities. Ever wondered why EB´s PSI powers are so peculiar, so different from the powers and abilities in other games? Because they come from the very character, from his own hearth and his mind, it is not the usual “external” power up, but something that comes from his own being. Tim Rogers has stressed how the central notion that we find in Itoi´s games is the problem of "game input". The psychic energy we put in a game is the very impulse that exists in our hearth, even beyond time and death, to keep playing. Haven´t we all felt the drive to immortality, the lust of eternal gaming? That is Giygas: he is our own gamer Tanatos. That´s the reason why only our hearts, our decisions (not the hero´s attacks) can kill Giygas: because he is what we are beyond life and dead, he is the alien, the naked Libido, the thing from inner space. This Gap or cosmic imbalance is compared by Zizek to the the hegelian "night of the world"
The human being is this night, this empty nothing, that contains everything in its simplicity—an unending wealth of many presentations, images, of which none happens to occur to him—or which are not present. This night, the inner of nature, that exists here— pure self—in phantasmagorical presentations, is night all around it, here shoots a bloody head—there another white shape, suddenly here before it, and just so disappears. One catches sight of this night when one looks human beings in the eye—into a night that becomes awful, it suspends the night of the world here in an opposition. In this night being has returned.
(from the Realphilosophie manuscript of 1805–06)

This night is the empty core of subjectivity, the zero ground of the subject, the pure void or absence which that which Hegel or Lacan call a subject stands for. Giygas is the gap where the face (the horrible face) of this monstrous undead power which surpasses us appears. But, in the game, we can prove ourselves that we are beyond this immortality and end the game. So, Earthbound is the only game where we face the very embodiment of our dark side as players, but not in the rather obvious and tasteless twist of battling against a dark version of ourselves (Dark Link, etc), but by fighting the immortal part of our being, the very core of our being. Maybe that´s why when Giygas dies it is like a TV going off: it is not only a brilliant and meta-fictional metaphor for the end of a game, but the very ending of our own monstrous, “undead” player dimension. The end of a game is our triumph over our own and virtually infinite power, the “alien” within us.

Think what happens in the other Mother games. What we have in both is a confrontation against an enemy that happens to share a very deep and strange link with the protagonist, but remains strange, unsettling, “alien” to you. For example, the first Giygas was raised by your great-grandmother Maria and the song you use to defeat him was its lullaby: there´s a very deep link between Ninten and Giygas, as if they were symbolically “brothers”: you defeat this monster by triggering it´s deepest feelings with a song (like killing a brother). In Mother 3 the final battle is in fact the highly catartical struggle of an "undead" boy, your brother, to overcome this monstrous Tantatos (the will to persist beyond life and dead) and embrace his own dead. The whole Giygas like stuff (the unused frames and all that) fits perfectly with this interpretation. What I mean is that there is a very important link between the three major EB final enemies, in all of them we find a mix of tenderness and pure horror and a symbolical identity between hero and villain (Ninten is like a brother of Guiege, Ness IS Giygas, Lucas IS Claus), and the source of this identification is the fact that the hero is not facing an enemy, he is facing himself in the undead, Tanatos dimension of his own being.
To clarify the horror that this facing against our own death drive conveys I compare the effect reached in these EB scene to the one in the ending of “Inland Empire”, by David Lynch. The ones who saw this film´s ending remember this horrible character that the protagonist (Laura Dern) meets in a ruined house, a man with a lightbulb in his mouth, which really shocks her (and us). In the end of the film, as she approaches to the room with the rabbits, she meets him again, and the protagonist shoots him. Suddenly, this guy´s face suddenly transforms into the protagonists face (shockingly deformed), and, in a second glimpse, the eyes of this face are empty and they start to bleed.

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David Lynch, Inland Empire

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Mother Games

This scene is a true nightmare. It can be interpreted as the protagonist dealing with the traumatic dimension of her own desire (this movie deals about some kind of imaginary or real adultery), her inward dimension. The difference between, let´s say, Inland Empire and Mulholland drive is that in the second the protagonist never faces the weird, horrible figure that embodies this dimension of pure horror, that is, the bum behind Winkies, and so the character persists in her desire and dies (in the last scene of the film, after Diane´s suicide, we see the face of the man behind Winkies). In Inland empire, the protagonist finally faces the true horror of herself, this horrible face which eternally bleeds (that is the core of our being) and so she reaches delivery in the beautiful final sequence. The symbolism of a deformed mock, or, more horrible even, an empty face that bleeds forever is the very incarnation of this Tanatos that is in ourselves, the undead in ourselves. The encounter with Giygas is very similar to this (remember, in Mother 3, the red, suffering and horrible face at the end of the unused boss), but in the dimension of videogames, a gamer´s Tanatos, as I have said before.

In brief: Giygas is, as all true aliens, is a “Thing from inner space”, which embodies the secret impulse to the Absolute which dwells in us (which, as immortality, is pure horror), Libido at it´s purest, the night of the world; the only way to overcome it is the player´s most epic, ethic decision: end the game. Earthbound is the only game that portrays in such a shocking way the very input we put in it, all which we go trough in it returns in the form of pure horror and that is Giygas. I believe this, among other reasons, gives Earthbound a different status among videogames, because it deals with the very problem of our deep relationship with the very idea of gaming. No one has done this yet apart from Itoi and frankly I believe only EB deserves this kind of attention in it´s analysis, not only as a part of the large phenomena of gaming, but in the deep, materialist analysis of the forms and experiences that a form of expression can contain.
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Post by LaserGun »

in b4 Cease & Desist and Nintendo decide to port the Mother games to the DS/Wii.
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Post by Jockel »

It's out now. Just put it on my GBA Flashcard :D
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Post by szycag »

I still haven't seen Inland Empire so I only skimmed over that wall of text :p could you put links to those pics instead?
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Post by t0yrobo »

Man, i still need to finish Earthbound (shame) I got pretty far through it over the summer but never got around to beating it. Now i HAVE 2 GAMES i NEED TO PLAY. :o
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Post by JoshF »

szycag wrote:I still haven't seen Inland Empire so I only skimmed over that wall of text :p could you put links to those pics instead?
No, they are the crucial visual component inseparable from the textual strokes of the ARTicle.
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Post by Icarus »

Ahh, good news.
Though I have enough RPGs on my plate at the moment, having acquired The World Ends With You and FFTA2 on DS, and working through Disgaea PSP at the moment. -_-;;
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Post by szycag »

Psh, those can wait. I was playing Dragon Quest IV DS too, but I put it down for this.

What does everybody think of the rhythm based combo system?
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Post by Rupert H »

Icarus wrote:Holy fuck, pants creamed. Do want.
If only SNES emulation didn't suck so much on the PSP, I'd be playing some Earthbound right now.
I've been playing through Earthbound again in preperation for this on the PSP using Snes9xTYLsmcm, and aside from some screen tear and occasional slowdown, it's perfectly playable.

Just got the Mother 3 translation onto the PSP too and I've got to say these guys seem to have done a brilliant job with the translation. The humour is spot-on.

As for what makes Earthbound so incredible... The game has bucket-loads of personality. Considering Mother 2 came out 14 years ago in 1994, it should have re-written the rule book on RPGs and forced the likes of Squaresoft and Enix to think twice before churning out their cliched, derivative and generic RPGs -- instead they seemed to funnel their ideas into an even more narrow field of spiky haired amnesiacs, ignoring Earthbound's lesson in intelligent RPG design.

Earthbound is bursting with exceptionally witty dialogue and never lets up in it's attempts to tear up the RPG rule book. It was so far ahead of it's time that it's still a perfectly original game 14 years on.
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Post by BryanM »

Ah, Mother 64. Mother was a pretty great game for its time; in a sea of mediocre Dragon Warrior clones (back when they still made Dragon Warrior clones), it really raised the bar of what you could expect out of the NES.

I don't know why, maybe too much Dangun Feveron, but I've gotten kind of nostalgic for 7th Saga lately. I know it's a terrible game, but the barebones nature of it, nothing but the very basics of the genre, and how you chose your party (similar to Dragon Warrior 3, which oddly isn't a feel Final Fantasy 1 gave me..) really did touch on something. 7th Saga was pure, like a JRPG made out of a random game generator...

/weird rambling about intangible things over

Definitely will give this a go down the line.
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