http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/xbox- ... sole-woes/
Explains a lot (it's 6 pages long).
Interesting interview with an insider:
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/digi ... 129866.asp
Another insider recently got fired over telling the truth:
http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/12/micro ... nturebeat/
Xbox 360 defects: an inside history
Xbox 360 defects: an inside history
Last edited by Ceph on Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I already participated in a lengthy discussion of this, so i'll link there instead of repeating everything I said already:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/Whip_Ass_Gam ... topic=1771
http://z4.invisionfree.com/Whip_Ass_Gam ... topic=1771
You're arguing for a universe with fewer waffles in it. I'm prepared to call that cowardice.
Don't we know this already? 
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
Don't kill the messenger.
The reason I brought those new stories up is because they actually contain some inside information, as oppsed to lots of speculation.
PS.
I actually purchased a used Xbox 1 a couple of weeks ago. Bulky and loud, but solid. As much as I dislike Microsoft for the consumer unfriendly, monopolistic company they are, I wouldn't mind buying a 360, once it finally leaves the beta stage.
The reason I brought those new stories up is because they actually contain some inside information, as oppsed to lots of speculation.
PS.
I actually purchased a used Xbox 1 a couple of weeks ago. Bulky and loud, but solid. As much as I dislike Microsoft for the consumer unfriendly, monopolistic company they are, I wouldn't mind buying a 360, once it finally leaves the beta stage.
Last edited by Ceph on Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[quote="Ceph"]Don't kill the messenger.
The reason I brought those new stories up is because they actually contain some inside information, not just lots of speculation.
It's not 'inside information'.
The guy was a beta tester. His job was to report problems with games, which were then (ostensibly) fixed before releasing the games. He had nothing at all to do with the hardware aspect of the system.
The reason I brought those new stories up is because they actually contain some inside information, not just lots of speculation.
It's not 'inside information'.
The guy was a beta tester. His job was to report problems with games, which were then (ostensibly) fixed before releasing the games. He had nothing at all to do with the hardware aspect of the system.
You're arguing for a universe with fewer waffles in it. I'm prepared to call that cowardice.
we wouldn't hate the messenger, if he would have stopped ringing the door bell after the 1st time.Ceph is on a crusade against MS/the 360.
we get it.... you hate MS and the 360. you don't want one for numerous reasons that you've listed over and over. so can you leave it alone now.
also... since you did such a great job on this 360 sucks b/c this is why it breaks deal. would you be so kind as do the same for the PS1/2 drive issues, I would be curious to read up on this as well, or are you to biased to do so.
Last edited by Strider77 on Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
oh... i see you did this as a current issue. you don't think it would be an interesting read. the red ring and why it red rings is nothing new ceph....
at least own up to doing this b/c you hate the 360 b/c it's an american system. if had been sound and never red ringed you'd still hate on it.
the fact you had to hunt down or photo shop TWO not just one pick for your raiden 4 hate in that thread then again make yet another new red ring hate thread kinda shows your over zealous attitude on this crusade. then you totally ignore that sony has been pretty shitty with their hardware in the past and did nothing to address it.... you only respond with it's either ok b/c at least it was cheap to replace (replacement PS1 and PS2 drives were NOT 30.00 replacements when this 1st started happening BTW) or it's ok b/c it happened in the past and not now.
we get it.... ok, we really do. you hate the system for x amount of reasons. we don't so fucking give it a rest and pout by yourself that you won't be able to play any new ports b/c you refuse to get a 360 and it ain't happening on PS3 so far. the rest of us will look forward to some new shotters to play... and gears 2.
at least own up to doing this b/c you hate the 360 b/c it's an american system. if had been sound and never red ringed you'd still hate on it.
the fact you had to hunt down or photo shop TWO not just one pick for your raiden 4 hate in that thread then again make yet another new red ring hate thread kinda shows your over zealous attitude on this crusade. then you totally ignore that sony has been pretty shitty with their hardware in the past and did nothing to address it.... you only respond with it's either ok b/c at least it was cheap to replace (replacement PS1 and PS2 drives were NOT 30.00 replacements when this 1st started happening BTW) or it's ok b/c it happened in the past and not now.
we get it.... ok, we really do. you hate the system for x amount of reasons. we don't so fucking give it a rest and pout by yourself that you won't be able to play any new ports b/c you refuse to get a 360 and it ain't happening on PS3 so far. the rest of us will look forward to some new shotters to play... and gears 2.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
-
PC Engine Fan X!
- Posts: 9108
- Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:32 pm
I guess NEC did something right with their CD laser lens drives for their PCE Duo/Turbo Duo consoles. My Turbo Duo still works like a charm even after having bought it new back in late 1994 and it still is using the OEM CD laser drive to this day. ^_~
Such everyday mass-produced electronics will, someday, eventually fail...that is a given. It is part of "planned obsolence" with the idea of having better and newer technologies to surpass the older ones. There are bound to be a few bad apples in every barrel when it comes to such electronics failing in their first few years of service -- hence when such extended warranties are good to have in the first place. My Turbo Duo came with an extended 4 year warranty (on top of the original manufacturer's warranty) that expired in late 1998, some four years after the fact that TTI had long since closed it's doors for good. I already knew that it would not be needed anyways because of the solid Japanese workmanship and overall high quality control standards that the old NEC Corporation giant had back in the day. They made good solid electronics back in the day. ^_~
It would be interesting to see if NEC will come back to the video game console arena again. ^_~
Back to Ceph's insider 360 console woes at hand.
PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
Such everyday mass-produced electronics will, someday, eventually fail...that is a given. It is part of "planned obsolence" with the idea of having better and newer technologies to surpass the older ones. There are bound to be a few bad apples in every barrel when it comes to such electronics failing in their first few years of service -- hence when such extended warranties are good to have in the first place. My Turbo Duo came with an extended 4 year warranty (on top of the original manufacturer's warranty) that expired in late 1998, some four years after the fact that TTI had long since closed it's doors for good. I already knew that it would not be needed anyways because of the solid Japanese workmanship and overall high quality control standards that the old NEC Corporation giant had back in the day. They made good solid electronics back in the day. ^_~
It would be interesting to see if NEC will come back to the video game console arena again. ^_~
Back to Ceph's insider 360 console woes at hand.
PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
Where are you getting this from? Are there voices in your head telling you this?Strider77 wrote: at least own up to doing this b/c you hate the 360 b/c it's an american system.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 239#408239
I do also currently own an Odyssee², an Atari 7800, an Intellivision, a Colecovision, a Vectrex, an Atari Jaguar and a Commodore CD32. Man, how I hate American systems.
Ah Ninja Gaiden 2 - that game is mint!
I don't like the tone of this forum guys. Although, yes, Ceph is attempting to back up an argument put forth in a previous thread, and probably unecessarily cos we all know the 360 has a history of abhorrent tech problems, we don't need to crucify every single time.
I hate being on the receiving end of forum hate, especially as it springs forth so easily and in most cases, so unfairly.
If Ceph and anyone else who believes the console is an unworthy purchase, for whatever reason, let em speak! There's nothing wrong with healthy debate.
My view is that I own all the modern consoles (bar PS3 - I sold it) and nearly all retro consoles. My 360 has packed up before, but the one I have now works. Importantly, the games are good enough to actually distract me from retro gaming, and playing shmups on the fucking great cab I dragged home with me.
If people make a choice to miss out on all of this fun, well, that's their choice.
As was mentioned, Gears 2 is going to make Christmas 08 very memorable indeed.
I don't like the tone of this forum guys. Although, yes, Ceph is attempting to back up an argument put forth in a previous thread, and probably unecessarily cos we all know the 360 has a history of abhorrent tech problems, we don't need to crucify every single time.
I hate being on the receiving end of forum hate, especially as it springs forth so easily and in most cases, so unfairly.
If Ceph and anyone else who believes the console is an unworthy purchase, for whatever reason, let em speak! There's nothing wrong with healthy debate.
My view is that I own all the modern consoles (bar PS3 - I sold it) and nearly all retro consoles. My 360 has packed up before, but the one I have now works. Importantly, the games are good enough to actually distract me from retro gaming, and playing shmups on the fucking great cab I dragged home with me.
If people make a choice to miss out on all of this fun, well, that's their choice.
As was mentioned, Gears 2 is going to make Christmas 08 very memorable indeed.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
I read through a couple links - the nicely done VentureBeat pieces were very interesting, and so was the Seattle API Blog bit done by 8bitjoystick (if I'm right, 8bitjoystick is the same kid who wrote me hate mail when I argued his review of the Messiah Famiclone wasn't up to par; he also doesn't know how to add editor notes (or write for that matter), but that blog entry is good work all the same).
I remember when the 360 HD-DVD drive came out, and getting into a fuss with people over something about it (I was right, but I would've rather had the inside scoop on the big story - HD-DVD is dead and forgotten after all).
I remember when the 360 HD-DVD drive came out, and getting into a fuss with people over something about it (I was right, but I would've rather had the inside scoop on the big story - HD-DVD is dead and forgotten after all).
well I guess everyone has there view, my biggest gripe is that it seems one sided to go after the 360 so hard while totally dismissing sony's track record.
the cost of those drives is now 30.00 bucks and that's for slimline replacements. slimlines fail also... I have seen it on several units personally. a friend of mine (josh) had his die just 4 weeks ago. if slimines are failing, then yes, 3 years after the fact units are still dying.
then we have the whole PS1 units also.... all the "on it's side" jokes are well known. sony took no responsibility and you had to fix it yourself or pay for it. the fat unit drives today are not just 30.00 dollars on average, they are 50 to 60. back then for all units the drives were not super cheap. regardless it was something sony would not do for free.
MS will fix it for free.... it still sucks either way and sure it's something to bitch about but sony was just as guilty and did NOTHING about it for those that suffered drives skipping, not playing CDs, not playing DVDS, or flat out dying. There a TONS of posts ect all over the net about "my PS2 doesn't read CDs but does DVDs" and vice vera.... along with skipping ect and just as many faqs on how to try and fix it with adjusting the voltage.
If someone can hate on the 360, then i think it's fair for someone to debate that and point out the aggrivation of the sony systems also. I have gone through 4 drives on my japanese PS2, it was one of the 1st batch units out of japan also (it's a myth those are more reliable). I know own a test PS2 and it's given me no issues so far. I have a slimline PSP that I bough new, it's drive starting making odd noises had had difficulty loading UMDs... it was under warrenty and sony replaced it free of charge. I don't hate my PSP and didn't start ranting about it over and over.
Even still.... I loved my PS2/1 games and had alot of fun with it (I just hated having to replace the drives). I didn't start threads slandering the PS2 all the time ect. I am sure folks have noticed me mentioning the PS1/2 faulty issues before.... but it has ALWAYS been a response to the 360 haters using this to justify their hatred of the unit.
I personally suffered sony products fucking up on me alot more than ceph has had his 360 die on him (and he says his xbox one works fine with no issues) so I think I'm entitled and justified to make my claims on this topic. like I said I have been no where near as dedicated in slandering sony's quality as ceph has with the 360 and yet he's never had a 360 die on him let alone owned one.
Ceph really seems to hate the 360, and his super zealous actions lead me to believe it must certainly be more than just the fact that some units red ring. I mean is that the only reason you hate it so much? You said you never owned one so why so bitter about something you haven't had happen to you?
let me ask you this ceph, other than your red ring hatred.... what do you have against the 360?
the cost of those drives is now 30.00 bucks and that's for slimline replacements. slimlines fail also... I have seen it on several units personally. a friend of mine (josh) had his die just 4 weeks ago. if slimines are failing, then yes, 3 years after the fact units are still dying.
then we have the whole PS1 units also.... all the "on it's side" jokes are well known. sony took no responsibility and you had to fix it yourself or pay for it. the fat unit drives today are not just 30.00 dollars on average, they are 50 to 60. back then for all units the drives were not super cheap. regardless it was something sony would not do for free.
MS will fix it for free.... it still sucks either way and sure it's something to bitch about but sony was just as guilty and did NOTHING about it for those that suffered drives skipping, not playing CDs, not playing DVDS, or flat out dying. There a TONS of posts ect all over the net about "my PS2 doesn't read CDs but does DVDs" and vice vera.... along with skipping ect and just as many faqs on how to try and fix it with adjusting the voltage.
If someone can hate on the 360, then i think it's fair for someone to debate that and point out the aggrivation of the sony systems also. I have gone through 4 drives on my japanese PS2, it was one of the 1st batch units out of japan also (it's a myth those are more reliable). I know own a test PS2 and it's given me no issues so far. I have a slimline PSP that I bough new, it's drive starting making odd noises had had difficulty loading UMDs... it was under warrenty and sony replaced it free of charge. I don't hate my PSP and didn't start ranting about it over and over.
Even still.... I loved my PS2/1 games and had alot of fun with it (I just hated having to replace the drives). I didn't start threads slandering the PS2 all the time ect. I am sure folks have noticed me mentioning the PS1/2 faulty issues before.... but it has ALWAYS been a response to the 360 haters using this to justify their hatred of the unit.
I personally suffered sony products fucking up on me alot more than ceph has had his 360 die on him (and he says his xbox one works fine with no issues) so I think I'm entitled and justified to make my claims on this topic. like I said I have been no where near as dedicated in slandering sony's quality as ceph has with the 360 and yet he's never had a 360 die on him let alone owned one.
Ceph really seems to hate the 360, and his super zealous actions lead me to believe it must certainly be more than just the fact that some units red ring. I mean is that the only reason you hate it so much? You said you never owned one so why so bitter about something you haven't had happen to you?
let me ask you this ceph, other than your red ring hatred.... what do you have against the 360?
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
tl;dr
This thread is about how Xbox 360 remains the most unreliable video gaming hardware ever, even three years after its launch. That is an outrage, even if the failure rate is now "only" 1 in 10. No company should get away with this.
I don't get why anyone would try to defend this; "They did it, too" is no justification. Besides, no other video game hardware company ever did anything like this before; if they had, they would have gone bankrupt- deservedly so.
How many people had to pay for repairs because their 360s were just outside of warranty? No 2-3 year old gaming hardware which was used as intended should ever fail. And since this is solely Microsofts fault, they should a) pay for any and all repairs their flawed hardware requires, and b) fix the design. Why is there no class action suit yet?
This thread is about how Xbox 360 remains the most unreliable video gaming hardware ever, even three years after its launch. That is an outrage, even if the failure rate is now "only" 1 in 10. No company should get away with this.
I don't get why anyone would try to defend this; "They did it, too" is no justification. Besides, no other video game hardware company ever did anything like this before; if they had, they would have gone bankrupt- deservedly so.
How many people had to pay for repairs because their 360s were just outside of warranty? No 2-3 year old gaming hardware which was used as intended should ever fail. And since this is solely Microsofts fault, they should a) pay for any and all repairs their flawed hardware requires, and b) fix the design. Why is there no class action suit yet?
Last edited by Ceph on Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, they will. Now that they've accepted responsibility for their defects though, there's not much choice left for them. It's either a choice between constantly repairing consoles for the rest of time they're on the market, or better them.Ceph wrote:This thread is about how Xbox 360 remains the most unreliable video gaming hardware ever, even three years after its launch. That is an outrage, even if the failure rate is now "only" 1 in 10. No company should get away with this.
If my 360 dies again, I'll force the RRoD to happen so I don't end up paying for the repair again. Then it's free. When I was talking to them on the phone, they basically told me it doesn't matter when the console was made, but the receipt. This makes it awkward for importers as you don't "get" receipts from online stores. They do this so that customers don't get fucked up by stores selling dated stock (which they will do, and you can't do anything about it). Since I was unable to prove that I actually did buy mine in Hokkaido last year, I was shit out of luck.Ceph wrote:How many people had to pay for repairs because their 360s were just outside of warranty? No 2-3 year old gaming hardware which was used as intended should ever fail. And since this is solely Microsofts fault, they should a) pay for any and all repairs their flawed hardware requires, and b) fix the design. Why is there no class action suit yet?
So yeah it's pretty much unacceptable but we can't do much about it. The PS3 is slightly inferior graphics wise (re: Bioshock) but if you're that worried about graphics, you're going to end up paying the price in repairs. In the long run, getting whatever game elsewhere would be a better alternative. Pretty much every 360 game has been released elsewhere, minus about 10 (of what, 350+?). I dare someone make a list of games already released that aren't available elsewhere and are actually worth playing/buying.
Before someone brings up the "but all shmups are coming to 360" thing, note that they're either already on PCB, MAME, or other consoles. The only shmups which are 360 exclusive at the moment seem to be Raiden IV and Death Smiles (not out yet).
Strider makes a good point. Sony are pretty bad at brushing the news under the carpet, as they have done with failing PS3 drives.
Ceph, it makes sense that no company should have this many fails for this long. The reason we tolerate it is because if it fails, it keeps on being replaced until the system has top end components and won't fail again.
That and the fact we're having so much damn fun playing the thing.
Ceph, it makes sense that no company should have this many fails for this long. The reason we tolerate it is because if it fails, it keeps on being replaced until the system has top end components and won't fail again.
That and the fact we're having so much damn fun playing the thing.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
but the important thing i want to know is when are we getting the article translated in to polish? 
Follow me on twitter for tees and my ramblings @karoshidrop
shmups members can purchase here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21158
shmups members can purchase here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21158
haw haw!Ceph wrote:So English isn't your native tongue after all? Makes sense.Lordstar wrote:but the important thing i want to know is when are we getting the article translated in to polish?
Follow me on twitter for tees and my ramblings @karoshidrop
shmups members can purchase here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21158
shmups members can purchase here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21158
ceph PS2s were failing drive wise 3 years after launch.... slimline units fail also drive wise. get over it.
get of you high horse..... MS isn't the only one around that sell hardware that breaks.
hell even if you look past game hardware sony had that MASSIVE laptop battery recall. and there were some folks that got screwed on that also. sony also had that deffective trinitron issue that they kept hush hust on. it was regarding the left size of the screen having a half circle arch going across it. it only effected 27 inch tubes and down so there official comment was that "it was within exceptable tolerance considering the price of TVs that size".
your on a witch hunt ceph.... have fun with it though. it's to the point where it's kind of getting past rediculous to down right funny.
get of you high horse..... MS isn't the only one around that sell hardware that breaks.
hell even if you look past game hardware sony had that MASSIVE laptop battery recall. and there were some folks that got screwed on that also. sony also had that deffective trinitron issue that they kept hush hust on. it was regarding the left size of the screen having a half circle arch going across it. it only effected 27 inch tubes and down so there official comment was that "it was within exceptable tolerance considering the price of TVs that size".
your on a witch hunt ceph.... have fun with it though. it's to the point where it's kind of getting past rediculous to down right funny.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
ipods were one. They have really bad battries in most of the gens and its a tough fight to get it replaced without paying stupids ammouts of cash for something which should work from day one
What MS are doing is fantastic. they know there were problems and have agreed to replace units or reapir them up to three years after pruchace for free. I cant think of any companies which have done that at all.
and someone tell me the last time they heard a eletrical product was recalled?
What MS are doing is fantastic. they know there were problems and have agreed to replace units or reapir them up to three years after pruchace for free. I cant think of any companies which have done that at all.
and someone tell me the last time they heard a eletrical product was recalled?
Follow me on twitter for tees and my ramblings @karoshidrop
shmups members can purchase here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21158
shmups members can purchase here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21158
Haha, I can picture you just fuming over at your computer.Ceph wrote:That is an outrage
Honestly, you don't own one, why do you care?
On a related note:
I think tells a whole lot about the how good the 360 is (hardware reliability aside). The consoles keep dying, yet people keep replacing them / buying new ones. The online service, the games, the controller -- it's just so much better than what Sony is currently offering.Ceph wrote:Besides, no other video game hardware company ever did anything like this before; if they had, they would have gone bankrupt- deservedly so.
my buddy is on his 3rd ps3.....normal use....not left on for excessive amounts of time...
both times the blueray drive failed and the system was replaced.....
first one lasted about 6 months....second one didnt even last 3 months....
doesnt seem that great to me....
thankfully i have less than zero interest in any next gen consoles.....i dont play the kinds of games they make for them....
and what shmups are being ported i would rather buy the PCB's than play a port....
why cant we all agree that next gen is ALL shit....good games or not(debatable)
both times the blueray drive failed and the system was replaced.....
first one lasted about 6 months....second one didnt even last 3 months....
doesnt seem that great to me....
thankfully i have less than zero interest in any next gen consoles.....i dont play the kinds of games they make for them....
and what shmups are being ported i would rather buy the PCB's than play a port....
why cant we all agree that next gen is ALL shit....good games or not(debatable)
-
Grinning Cat
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:51 pm
The point, isn't that you're wrong - it's simply that you're constantly reiterating something that everyone has been aware of, almost since the dawn of time!! I really don't see what repeating Microsoft's screw-ups - like a deranged parrot on a stuck record - actually achievesCeph wrote: I don't get why anyone would try to defend this
The basic facts, are that most shmups are coming to the 360. They could indeed end up elsewhere, but the chances are fairly remote. It's a case of either gambling slightly on the hardware (much like it was with the PS2), or buying the PCBs.
Or, neither
