Chaos Field on GC to be released in US

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun May 08, 2005 7:12 pm

They also do a fine job showing that parallax scrolling or any special effect isn't a necessity either, but it's still a nice thing to have. Seriously, I'd rather have flawed 3D than intricately detailed backgrounds that have the life of a cardboard sheet.

yojo! · Post by **yojo!** » Sun May 08, 2005 7:50 pm

neojma wrote:The Chaos/Order gimmick isn't too bad, but a decent mechanic can't make up for the flaws

Please list your flaws; I don't see what is wrong with the game besides average graphics.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Sun May 08, 2005 9:01 pm

I personaly don't understand why people like Psikyo all their games are exactly the same

Compare Dragon Blaze and Strikers 1945 and then explain how they're 'exactly the same' please.

Ignorance...

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun May 08, 2005 9:19 pm

The power-up icons look similar.

neojma · Post by **neojma** » Sun May 08, 2005 9:20 pm

yojo! wrote:
neojma wrote:The Chaos/Order gimmick isn't too bad, but a decent mechanic can't make up for the flaws
Please list your flaws; I don't see what is wrong with the game besides average graphics.

I did list what I think are flaws in the preceding sentence - "Ugly game, boring bosses, no levels"

For a game entirely composed of boss fights, boring bosses is pretty much a killer. And even without nitpicking for specific flaws, it's just not FUN as an overall package to me. That's what I look for.

There are a few noticeably bad features - ugly graphics and boring bosses. And there are no features that I would categorize as good. A couple decent music tracks isn't enough to make me like a game, and I can't really give too much credit to the chaos/order field since the gimmick is utilized far better in the competition (EspGaluda). Other than those things, I see nothing that CF does particularly well. So what we have is a game that doesn't do anything particularly well, and does some things poorly. Not exactly my definition of a winner. I enjoy some games that I consider entirely average in every way (Shienryu comes to mind), but to me CF is average in its best areas, and solidly below average in some (enemy/level design and bad graphics are the obvious ones).

I suppose there is one element of personal tastes influencing me that might not affect others so much. I'm not a fan of the boss attack style. I like flying through levels. For instance, I dislike Radiant Silvergun because I find it weighted far too heavily on the side of boss fight after boss fight (and CF is no RS, even though I'm not a fan of either). Still, if the boss attack design is something that really appeals to you, you may get more out CF than I did. However, unless you're in the group of people that really likes that style, I don't see much redeeming value in CF.

I'm glad you love the game so much, but you sound like you're on Milestone's payroll. I simply don't care for it, and I know I'm not alone on this one. If anything, you're certainly in the minority. If even shmup die-hards generally don't like CF too much, I have a hard time believing someone who is less into the genre would find any merit in it.

That's not to say that you can't love a game that most people dislike. For instance, I love the RPG Unlimited Saga even though the majority of RPG players dislike it. Fine. But let's suppose there were almost no RPG releases in the US and there were several potential candidates for localization - say, Xenosaga, Star Ocean, Final Fantasy X, SMT: Nocturne, and Unlimited Saga. All of the others are generally more well thought of than Unlimited Saga, so I wouldn't be picking the one that a lot of people hate. I see it that way when there are quality Japanese shmups (not even considering DC exclusives, since the US opinion is that the system is dead) left alone while CF gets a port. I'd much rather have DOJ, EspGaluda, Dragon Blaze, Psyvariar 2, a Psikyo collection, even the poor port of Giga Wing Generations... Chaos Field is dead last on my list of games I'd like to represent the genre to an audience that's already extremely skeptical. It's like going to the market and seeing a basket of apples, then selecting the worst looking one of the bunch to take home. Typically I'd say it's better to get something than nothing, but my opinion of CF is low enough that I think it will actually be able to hurt the genre more than it will help.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Sun May 08, 2005 9:33 pm

Chaos Field is dead last on my list of games I'd like to represent the genre to an audience that's already extremely skeptical.

This sums up what I was getting at rather nicely.

yojo! · Post by **yojo!** » Sun May 08, 2005 9:45 pm

neojma wrote:I'm glad you love the game so much, but you sound like you're on Milestone's payroll. I simply don't care for it, and I know I'm not alone on this one. If anything, you're certainly in the minority. If even shmup die-hards generally don't like CF too much, I have a hard time believing someone who is less into the genre would find any merit in it.

Don't worry, I'm not on Milestone's payroll. You are right so; it all comes down to a matter of taste. I really enjoy the boss fight, I find them very attractive and imaginative. Definetely a keeper IMO.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Sun May 08, 2005 11:41 pm

2. If you really want to support shmups, buy Japanese. The few thousand US sales of a budget port aren't going to convince Japanese game makers to create more shmups. What is? Japanese sales. That's all they look at.

It's about supporting the shmup market in the US. And a few hundred people that import games isn't going to make a difference to Japanese game makers.

3. If you want the US shooter revival, Chaos Field is NOT how you get it done. This game is going to turn more people AWAY from the genre. It truly backs up the common US perception that the genre is useless and hopelessly stuck in the past. Once somebody who is on the fence tries CF, they'll likely never touch a US release of a shmup again, even if it turns out to be a good one (Raiden III, Mushihime, etc). I hope it's worth it to you as genre fans for some budget publisher to scrounge up a couple thousand sales at $20-$30 a pop and in the process kill the little remaining good will toward the genre from the typical American gamer.

Even Xs' retardified ports don't turn people away. You overemphasize the experience of the casual fan, most US gamers are completely ignorant to great shmups, that's why they consider trash like R-type Final to be excellent. Any shooter released in the US at this point is good news. Too many people want to walk over bridges before they're built, prove shooters can still sell over here and then maybe we'll get the higher quality games. I'm sure the only reason that CF is coming is because Ikaruga did well enough here.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:30 am

Nemo wrote:most US gamers are completely ignorant to great shmups, that's why they consider trash like R-type Final to be excellent.

No, R-Type Final would be considered excellent because it has what casual players want: decent graphics, novelty features and bullshit replay value (unlockable ships, customized colors, etc.). I'd rather play RTF any day.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:55 am

Rob wrote:
Nemo wrote:most US gamers are completely ignorant to great shmups, that's why they consider trash like R-type Final to be excellent.
No, R-Type Final would be considered excellent because it has what casual players want: decent graphics, novelty features and bullshit replay value (unlockable ships, customized colors, etc.). I'd rather play RTF any day.

Eww, that's pretty gross but you do have a point about what casual gamers like. That still doesn't prove they know what a good shooter is (it actually proves the opposite, they like shooters for all the wrong reasons) and when was the last time any shooter that was released here wasn't well-received by most people? CF will more than likely be embraced simply because it has no current competition and people that dabble in niche titles will want to try it. If I was one who strictly played shooters released in the US, I would think CF is pretty good, but most people here import and have played better and that's why they think it sucks.

neoalphazero · Post by **neoalphazero** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:00 am

Given the sad state of Gamecube a new release is welcome. Personally I'd rather see Shikigami 2 or any of Hudson's remake games but I'll pick up Chaos Field just to see how the extras add up.

*-neo

neojma · Post by **neojma** » Mon May 09, 2005 5:49 am

It's about supporting the shmup market in the US. And a few hundred people that import games isn't going to make a difference to Japanese game makers.

I don't really agree. A few thousand sales of a game as a US budget release means nothing to anybody. Maybe it will be enough to get another budget release from a minor publisher in a year.

On the other hand, for Japanese releases there are actually some meaningful sales numbers. An additional few thousand sales due to exports (we're talking a little more than hundreds considering all of the North American importers + the PAL territories + anywhere else) might be enough to make or break a decision for a company like Milestone, Triangle, or whoever is porting a Psikyo or Cave game.

You see, we have nothing at all to play if someone in Japan doesn't make the game. We simply aren't going to get a US developed shmup. Therefore, all we will get for US release is a port of a Japanese game. Well, even in Japan the genre isn't exactly having games flying off the shelves. It's still viable enough to have releases, but honestly it needs all the help it can get. And when a Japanese executive has to give the OK to produce a new home console game/port, that executive is going to base the decision SOLELY on Japanese version sales. Japanese companies are notoriously domestic-centric. He's not going to consider the fact that they sold the rights to make a budget American port for peanuts. If a threshold decision is whether the game sold 50,000 copies in the Japanese release and it might be a close call... Well, I'd rather have an extra 1500 sales of the Japanese version that ended up as exports as opposed to having those 1500 sales of some US port that isn't considered in the decision. After all, once the source stops making the games, there's nothing to make budget ports of.

If I was one who strictly played shooters released in the US, I would think CF is pretty good, but most people here import and have played better and that's why they think it sucks.

I don't agree with that either. Even someone who plays ONLY US releases has a lot better to choose from in the past couple generations. Stuff like Mars Matrix, Giga Wing 1 and 2, Gunbird 2, Ikaruga, Shikigami 1 and 2, Strikers 1945 II, Gradius V. It's a pretty obvious drop in quality when now they're getting freakin' Chaos Field. The people who had a mild interest in the genre and picked up stuff like R-Type Final, Ikaruga, or Giga Wing are likely to give up on another "maybe I'll buy this oddball shooter" purchase once they get burned by CF. It just gives less of a reson to them to try a port of an actually worthy game like some hypothetical small budget publisher release of Psyvariar 2, EspGaluda, Shikigami 3, etc. When some publisher turns down a chance to release a port of an Ibara or Raiden III because they point to CF being panned by reviewers as evidence that the US market won't play a shmup any more... That's why I would rather have CF stay in Japan.

icepick · Post by **icepick** » Tue May 10, 2005 12:27 am

neojma wrote:When some publisher turns down a chance to release a port of an Ibara or Raiden III because they point to CF being panned by reviewers as evidence that the US market won't play a shmup any more... That's why I would rather have CF stay in Japan.

Did CF sell well in Japan? I mean, as well as R-Type Final, Ikaruga and/or Giga Wing? Did Q-3 choose it because it was so heralded?

Did R-Type Final, Ikaruga, Gradius V and/or Giga Wing sell well in the US? If CF had poor sales, would it be the odd duck out or would it put the final sprinkle on the doughnut?

There's no evidence that CF is going to be panned by reviewers (or even be reviewed at all with any prominence), and it's not like shmups in general receive extreme praise over here. Regardless, this one game is hardly going to make it or break it for shmups in the US. It might add to the idea that there is or isn't a market over here at current, but that's about it.

Besides, people like new games. Even in the event that there is in fact someone that plays only US shmups, they're going to welcome a new addition, especially if they wouldn't mind a break from their staples. I still can't imagine a casual gamer in this situation, though.

(Perhaps I underestimate the casual American gamer, but it's hard for me to imagine someone with a GameCube remembering Giga Wing or Mars Matrix on the DC, and drawing a line between CF and those--or Gradius V or R-Type Final on the PS2--or having played Ikaruga with any sort of regularity.)

neojma wrote:A few thousand sales of a game as a US budget release means nothing to anybody.

Except maybe the localizing company. What if they get a nice response, and decide to bring another over? Radilgy, perhaps? XS Games will probably take care of "Castle Shikigami 3," by the way.

(Hopefully, at least.)

neojma wrote: We simply aren't going to get a US developed shmup.

Does Nanostray count?

(Edit: Okay, so Shin'en is a German company. Still!)

Oh, oh. The people buying these localized versions are mostly (1) people that already have the import, (2) people that were going to but havent yet, and (3) people that know nothing about the game. The first category have already helped the "unofficial" Japan sales numbers. The second category is probably too late to help the Japanese sales numbers. The third would definitely not be helping the Japanese sales numbers, but all three categories would be helping the US sales numbers, and nothing would be taken away from the Japanese sales numbers in any case, especially considering that imports are usually not counted in tallying first week/month sales numbers.

So, to draw a clear line--The sales of CF in the US is most likely not going to affect whether or not Raiden III, Under Defeat and so on, receive home ports in Japan. As far as I can tell.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Tue May 10, 2005 3:45 am

neojma wrote:I don't really agree. A few thousand sales of a game as a US budget release means nothing to anybody. Maybe it will be enough to get another budget release from a minor publisher in a year.

But that's all you can really ask for. What does not supporting a domestic release do? Nothing but convince publishers to not bring anymore of these types of games over. I always import, I already imported CF for DC, but when the rare occasion arises when a shmup is released stateside, you have to support it.

You see, we have nothing at all to play if someone in Japan doesn't make the game. We simply aren't going to get a US developed shmup. Therefore, all we will get for US release is a port of a Japanese game. Well, even in Japan the genre isn't exactly having games flying off the shelves. It's still viable enough to have releases, but honestly it needs all the help it can get. And when a Japanese executive has to give the OK to produce a new home console game/port, that executive is going to base the decision SOLELY on Japanese version sales. Japanese companies are notoriously domestic-centric. He's not going to consider the fact that they sold the rights to make a budget American port for peanuts. If a threshold decision is whether the game sold 50,000 copies in the Japanese release and it might be a close call... Well, I'd rather have an extra 1500 sales of the Japanese version that ended up as exports as opposed to having those 1500 sales of some US port that isn't considered in the decision. After all, once the source stops making the games, there's nothing to make budget ports of.

There are so many more variables than what you're considering. Every game is different. Take Gradius V for example, this game was developed with the knowledge it would be released in the East and West, so worldwide sales are definitely important to Konami. Soley focusing on Japanese sales is only important for games released solely for Japan. Since Milestone likely had no idea Cf would be released in the US the US sales aren't important to them. So in this instance, buying US version of CF won't do make a difference to Milestone, but supporting shooters in the US might make a difference down the road in terms of more companies inside and outside of Japan recognizing the US as a viable shooter market once again.

Look at what happened with NIS. Atlus publishes Disgaea and it's a substantial hit. The next thing you know, NIS opens a US office and are not only releasing their games here but other companies' games as well. Do I think this will be the same thing with CF, of course not, but it's about progression. It's about proving people want these types of games here, and good things will come from that.

I don't agree with that either. Even someone who plays ONLY US releases has a lot better to choose from in the past couple generations. Stuff like Mars Matrix, Giga Wing 1 and 2, Gunbird 2, Ikaruga, Shikigami 1 and 2, Strikers 1945 II, Gradius V. It's a pretty obvious drop in quality when now they're getting freakin' Chaos Field. The people who had a mild interest in the genre and picked up stuff like R-Type Final, Ikaruga, or Giga Wing are likely to give up on another "maybe I'll buy this oddball shooter" purchase once they get burned by CF. It just gives less of a reson to them to try a port of an actually worthy game like some hypothetical small budget publisher release of Psyvariar 2, EspGaluda, Shikigami 3, etc. When some publisher turns down a chance to release a port of an Ibara or Raiden III because they point to CF being panned by reviewers as evidence that the US market won't play a shmup any more... That's why I would rather have CF stay in Japan.

You're assuming a lot. Most casual gamers these days don't own a DC, and if they do, I doubt they own games like Mars and Gunbird 2. And they few that do would be hungry for any shmup action period considering the US releases are far and few between. I'm also not convinced CF will get panned, at least not by gamers (major publications will say it sucks regardless simply because it's a shmup). Joe Gamer: "It's like Ikaruga because you can change between 2 different ship settings on the fly and it has a sword weapon like Radiant Silvergun!" OMG, a cross between Iky and RS, that has to be the best shooter ever!

postman · Post by **postman** » Sat May 21, 2005 4:22 pm

According to planet Gamecube, the US version will get new bosses and levels, along with retooled gameplay! This should be very interesting...........

black mariah · Post by **black mariah** » Sat May 21, 2005 4:55 pm

Neon wrote: Compare Dragon Blaze and Strikers 1945 and then explain how they're 'exactly the same' please.

Ignorance...

Dragon Blaze is the one Psikyo shmup with above-average play mechanics.

Here's a better idea. Compare the Strikers series, the Aero Wings series, the Gunbird series, Sengoku Ace... aside from a few minor differences (graphics keep getting better, maybe a new way to attack the enemy here and there) we're talking about the same fucking game. Now in an AC/DC "We've made the same album 14 times" fashion I kind of respect that, but to shit on one company for being unoriginal while giving Psikyo a handjob is just ridiculous.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm

postman wrote:According to planet Gamecube, the US version will get new bosses and levels, along with retooled gameplay! This should be very interesting...........

Extra content for a western release of a shmup!?

Hopefully they'll really add substance to the game instead of some slightly altered bosses or levels!

Anyway: good news for people without the game but with interest in it!

postman · Post by **postman** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:49 pm

I sent O~3 an email asking about a release date and also info about the new material, and heres the answer I got:

"Dear Roger,

Thanks for your interest in Chaos Field. The projected release date is late August or early September.

Best regards,
O~3 Entertainment, Inc."

They were quick to respond and seem to be user friendly, but didn't comment on the new material......oh well.......

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:06 pm

black mariah wrote: Here's a better idea. Compare the Strikers series, the Aero Wings series, the Gunbird series, Sengoku Ace... aside from a few minor differences (graphics keep getting better, maybe a new way to attack the enemy here and there) we're talking about the same fucking game.

Here we go again...

Did Psikyo run over your dog or something? I mean, Capcom made the same freakin' fighting game over and over with less differences between them than the psikyo shmups and I loved it (as did most). If you don't really like Psikyo, that's fine, but your point really seems utterly crap (especially the 10th time or so we've heard it.)

I don't think the quality of psikyo's games are really questionable, but if they are too homogenous for you, buy your favorite one and move on (and save us the bandwidth).

As to all the psikyo games being like add on packs to Aerofighters, either your freakin' blind or your just being a troll.

highlandcattle · Post by **highlandcattle** » Tue May 24, 2005 4:01 pm

CMoon wrote: Here we go again...

Did Psikyo run over your dog or something? I mean, Capcom made the same freakin' fighting game over and over with less differences between them than the psikyo shmups and I loved it (as did most). If you don't really like Psikyo, that's fine, but your point really seems utterly crap (especially the 10th time or so we've heard it.)

I don't think the quality of psikyo's games are really questionable, but if they are too homogenous for you, buy your favorite one and move on (and save us the bandwidth).

As to all the psikyo games being like add on packs to Aerofighters, either your freakin' blind or your just being a troll.

I strongly disagree with you .Psikyo games all feel very outdated to me and most of them are just skins for the same engine.They aren't very deep but fun for a quick blast.
Your point about SF is mute because this is a STG board and not a FIG board

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:00 pm

highlandcattle wrote: I strongly disagree with you .Psikyo games all feel very outdated to me

*boggles* There is no reasonable reply to this except to quote Malc:

"I can't hear you, I'm living in the past."

and most of them are just skins for the same engine.They aren't very deep but fun for a quick blast.

*boggles again* I don't know what you are playing, but it sounds more like an RPG to me. I play ARCADE shmups that are neither particular deep and rarely have more than 6 levels.

Your point about SF is mute because this is a STG board and not a FIG board

Because no one on this forum plays fighters, and using analogies to other types of video games is illegal according to the shmupper bylaws.

gs68 · Post by **gs68** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:47 pm

Sweet, now to bug game stores all over my city only to find that they don't have this game because it's a shmup, forcing me to bug my mom to buy me this game online.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:04 am

Chaos Field was decent for a game, but half-decent for a shmup. It could have used a lot of polishing, as its flaws are evident by the end of the first battle and remain bothersome until the end of the game. I personally have more fun with fucking Sanvein than i do with Chaos Field. hell, it doesn't even save high scores. if they actually bothered to polish the gameplay, and make Hal and Ifumi actually USEFUL, then this game would have been decent. yes, i enjoyed it for the first few hours. but after a while, i realized the difficulty was a result of poor gameplay (ex: Simple 1500: The Shooting), rather than intended and appreciated difficulty (ex: Treasure, Cave, or Psikyo shooters). i dub this game Waviant Silverbird.

black mariah · Post by **black mariah** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:51 am

CMoon wrote: I mean, Capcom made the same freakin' fighting game over and over with less differences between them than the psikyo shmups and I loved it (as did most).

And there's no excuse for it. The leap from SF2 to Super SF2 Turbo is large enough taken on its own, but the incremental manner in which it was done was total bullshit.

As to all the psikyo games being like add on packs to Aerofighters, either your freakin' blind or your just being a troll.

You know, add-on is the perfect way of putting it. If you go from Sengoku Ace to Dragon Blaze in one leap, that's a substantial difference in graphics and gameplay. But the EIGHT games in between paint a picture of evolution rather than revolution.

*boggles* There is no reasonable reply to this except to quote Malc: "I can't hear you, I'm living in the past."

So you basically just admit that Psikyo games are outdated by implying that you have to live in the past to play them.

*poke*

*boggles again* I don't know what you are playing, but it sounds more like an RPG to me. I play ARCADE shmups that are neither particular deep and rarely have more than 6 levels.

Dude, you'd TOTALLY be into Hotdog Storm.

[/quote]

mannerbot · Post by **mannerbot** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:32 am

black mariah wrote:
CMoon wrote: I mean, Capcom made the same freakin' fighting game over and over with less differences between them than the psikyo shmups and I loved it (as did most).
And there's no excuse for it. The leap from SF2 to Super SF2 Turbo is large enough taken on its own, but the incremental manner in which it was done was total bullshit.

Well, I've ignored this topic for the longest time because it is for a worthless game, but I feel like I have to take it on a tangent and respond to these posts. The updates were made to SF2 were made for balance. You know how there was actual competition in arcades at the time? Yeah, racing to select Guile every time sure does sound fun, doesn't it?

You could call it bullshit, or you could recognize that it is a great example of a company supporting its product and its fans.

black mariah · Post by **black mariah** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:54 am

mannerbot wrote: Well, I've ignored this topic for the longest time because it is for a worthless game, but I feel like I have to take it on a tangent and respond to these posts. The updates were made to SF2 were made for balance. You know how there was actual competition in arcades at the time? Yeah, racing to select Guile every time sure does sound fun, doesn't it? You could call it bullshit, or you could recognize that it is a great example of a company supporting its product and its fans.

You say this as if it's some kind of excuse. Look at how many revisions Mortal Kombat games go through. Do you see Midway calling every fucking one of them a new game?

I don't know how long it's been since you've been in an arcade, but there's still quite a bit of competition. It may not be as widespread as it was in the SF2 days, but it's still there.

mannerbot · Post by **mannerbot** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:03 am

Ok, but the point of SF2 sure wasn't the home port. It was the arcade. What did these updates ultimately cost the consumer? Nothing. Everyone benefitted from them because competition was revitalized with each update: players have a more balanced game to play, Capcom makes money on the cabs, and arcade owners make money because of the renewed interest.

Why did you have to defile the board by mentioning Mortal Kombat?

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:17 am

Would you consider Pyskio games as boss rush games. I mean, you blow up only a few tanks and planes and BOOM! Big bad Boss shows up!

Metal Gear Okt · Post by **Metal Gear Okt** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:30 am

Ick. I didn't really spend that much time with the DC version, but really, it's tough when there are so many superlative shooters on that system. I'll probably buy the US release anyway out of some sense of duty.

Did Psyvariar 2 ever get a Cube port? I knew it came out for Xbox in japan.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:49 am

FatCobra wrote:Would you consider Pyskio games as boss rush games. I mean, you blow up only a few tanks and planes and BOOM! Big bad Boss shows up!

truth... Psyvariar 2 disappointed me. the music doesn't even get to cycle through fully before bossman shows up. though if i had to say something nice about the game, it had a BITCHIN' soundtrack.

Metal Gear Okt - sadly, it didn't. o_O i have a "copy" of the DC version, and i'm wondering just how bad the slowdown on the PS2 version is. XD there is a fair share of Psyvariar stuff on Play-asia, though about half of which is out-of-print: http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-19-37-347 ... r%2B2.html