dodonpachi PCB questions/older cave in general

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:40 pm

also this is my second pre-sh3(PGM?)hardware PCB( also had esprade) and im seeing a common issue between the 2...the screen wavers slightly....what might be causing this?

i havent had this issue with any SH3 pcb's which leads me to believe it is hardware related.....any ideas what to do to fix it?

Alien Soldier · Post by **Alien Soldier** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:00 am

What's your setup exactly ? Supergun, right ? From what I read, it seems to be the common sync problem of some Cave boards with some TVs because of the video encoder through composite or s-Video. You should try on another TV. I remember telling that to Professor Ganson and the board worked just fine on his other TV. The best way to avoid this kind of problems is to get a RGB setup.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:34 am

new astro city X2

same issue with both

different monitors(only one is the stock ms9) and different powersupplys....same issue tho

Alien Soldier · Post by **Alien Soldier** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:34 pm

Did you put your cabs to the ground properly ? That's the only thing I see at the moment. Let me check my Esp and DDP, I'll get back to you. I have almost the same setup (Toshiba+Nanao but multisync).

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:09 pm

I've seen the same issue with my ESP rade in a friends astro city. It doesn't happen with my supergun and Sony PVM so i know it's not the board.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:51 pm

but if it was a ground issue would it not affect all boards??

cuz everything ive run on both cabs was fine except older cave titles (esprade and ddp)...sh3 is fine

and to answer your question, no neither cabs have the ground prong.....i suppose it would be 15 mins work to rewire both cabs with the ground line.....

maybe i should get on that

.....i would just have to line the 2 AC lines and i could get the ground from the main ground point at the back of the cab and do up a new cord with a 3 prong plug, ya?

cuz i could do that myself.....lemme know and i will probably do that up this weekend.....would it be ok to just hack a 3 prong extension cord...save me some time

although the guy i bought both cabs off has several of his own( new astros) and none have the ground prong and he hasnt had any trouble....hmmmm...i just sold him my esprade so i should see if he is having the same problem....

thanx for the tips guys

robivy64 · Post by **robivy64** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:53 pm

I have tested every gen 1 Cave board in my Astro and I have not seen this problem.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:57 pm

does your astro have a ground prong?

robivy64 · Post by **robivy64** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:16 am

Nope.

It also has the original monitor and chassis.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:22 am

hmmmmm.......very odd....cuz i have the same issue with both of my astros, and it actually seems a bit worse on the one with the stock monitor and powersupply

but i just checked and both power cords have a ground line connected....they just have the ground prong cut off.....so its just a matter of grabbing a couple 3 prong plugs and wiring them up to the existing cable....5 mins each!!

im gonna do it tomorrow night after work.....and hey...even if it doesnt fix the issue at least the cabs are grounded properly

i will post back with my results......cross your fingers!!

brokenhalo · Post by **brokenhalo** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:50 am

grounded appliances are happy appliances! home depot usually has 25 ft. extension cords for $5. great for hacking, and get yourself a few 14-16 awg insulated crimp on spade terminals for the wire ends. easy-peasy.

and fingers crossed

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:15 am

i dont even need to buy new cable.....the current ones have ground lines connected, just the ground prongs are cut off the plug...so i will just grab some new 3 prong plugs and wire them on....

easy-peasy as you say

fingers crossed indeed

it couldnt be a voltage issue could it? cuz like i said, everything else works fine,even sh3(thank god!!!!)

and if it is im hesitant to change it as it works with sh3.....i would not be a happy camper if i adjusted stuff so it worked for the older stuff and then had issues with futari or the like

any thoughts?

brokenhalo · Post by **brokenhalo** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:42 am

sometimes if a voltage transformer doesn't have a ground it can do funny things. hopefully thats your problem and the ground prong fixes it. at the very least you wont have to worry about touching something metal on your cab and getting buzzed by stray voltage. i got a call once to come run a ground to a washing machine outlet. long story short, ladys outlet wasn't grounded (although some ass installed a 3-prong plug there), she was leaning against her washer and reached up to grab something, brushed the cold waterpipe and got the crap shocked out of her. so yeah, ground is good regardless.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:40 am

Are your cabs next to each other? monitors can cause magnetic interference with each other- grounding won't help if that's it. After putting larger monitors in a bunch of my cabs, I had a lot of this problem- sometimes also manifesting as a faint ripple up or down the screen. I remember that it seemed to be a little different, more or less, depending on the PCB the cab was running.

I had to take all the cabs and line them up in special orders, with some not right next to others. Anyways, double check that just by scooting the cabs apart a few feet. It should get a little better every inch apart. Or shield the monitors with mu metal.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:46 am

nah......... about 4 ft between cabs....and the issue was there even before i got the second cab

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:15 pm

so ya im retarded....and i have the memory of a gnat

i could have sworn neither cab had ground prongs.....like i remember asking about it when i bought the first cab.....

but ya...they both have ground prongs

so grounding is not the issue

any thing else i can check?

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:45 am

Maybe disconnect any fans in the cabs (if they have any). It might be good to unhook any flourescent lights, too, just to troubleshoot- or any lights and appliances in the house. ???

If some astro's don't have a prob, but one did and it wasn't the board, maybe astro's are extra succeptable to outside voltage issues? They sell power conditioners for audio gear, maybe if you could get your hands on one of those, you could rule that out.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:19 am

Is it only these two games which are giving you trouble ?

These particular CAVE games have a refresh rate of 57.55 which confuses a lot of monitors. have you tried to do any monitor adjustments i.e. the horizontal frequency ?

Also is ground connected to the chassi ?

rtw

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:26 pm

jonny5 wrote:new astro city X2

same issue with both

different monitors(only one is the stock ms9) and different powersupplys....same issue tho

For jonny5,

Are both your New Astro City using Nanao dual sync RGB monitors (15kHz-24kHz)?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:21 pm

for pc engine fan....your quote answered your question...one is the stock nanao...one is a 15khz monitor from niemen displays...brand new

for rtw...these are the only older cave titles i have had and yes i have the same issues with both

when you say horizontal frequency are you referring to the sync? cuz this has no affect on either cabs related to the problem

nothing i have adjusted has made any difference....if what you are referring to is not the sync adjustors, could you point me in the right direction to what i need to try adjusting....

im honestly not that concerned....its only these games that have the issue...sh3 works fine....

and its only really noticable on the titel screens

and kind of off topic but i have noticed a common issue with both ibara and mushi sh3 hardware on both my cabs and on a couple other new astros

the picture is great and very solid but i have some screen tearing? on the left edge of the picture....

like a few lines going from top to bottom on the extreme edge.....

its the same with both....im thinking it has to do with vertical sync....but i cannot seem to adjust it enough to make them go away

any ideas?

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:36 pm

jonny5 wrote:and kind of off topic but i have noticed a common issue with both ibara and mushi sh3 hardware on both my cabs and on a couple other new astros

the picture is great and very solid but i have some screen tearing? on the left edge of the picture....

like a few lines going from top to bottom on the extreme edge.....

its the same with both....im thinking it has to do with vertical sync....but i cannot seem to adjust it enough to make them go away

any ideas?

Go into the setup screen, select screen, move grid up and down, should solve the problem.

rtw

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:45 pm

rtw wrote:
jonny5 wrote:and kind of off topic but i have noticed a common issue with both ibara and mushi sh3 hardware on both my cabs and on a couple other new astros

the picture is great and very solid but i have some screen tearing? on the left edge of the picture....

like a few lines going from top to bottom on the extreme edge.....

its the same with both....im thinking it has to do with vertical sync....but i cannot seem to adjust it enough to make them go away

any ideas?
Go into the setup screen, select screen, move grid up and down, should solve the problem.

rtw

can you explain that a little more....i dont quite get it

and just to elaborate.....the lines are like gaps in the graphics...and they are not there on the startup romchecks or test menus....only once the game loads

if that is all it takes to fix it thats awesome...

but can you please explain the move grid up and down....i know what the grid is.....but im confused by what you mean......and by up and down do you mean true up and down, or what is left and right in vertical position

like do i need to reposition it, or just moving it around a bit and leaving it will fix the problem?

and thanx for the help rtw....this one has had me stumped for a while

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:05 pm

If you enter the setup menu you will find an entry called "Dot Cross Hatch"

In the middle of the cross hatch you see two orange numbers. These are the offsets that the SH-3 can make.

If you have shearing at the edges you can move this grid up and down.

If you supply us with a picture your screen that might help as well.

rtw

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:13 pm

ok....i will have mushi here tomorrow so i will give it a go and at the very least get pictures of the problem for you if i cant get it worked out

now just so im clear...from what you are saying im guessing up and down means left and right, ya?

cuz on a vertically mounted monitor the shearing is on the far left side of the screen....so should i move it to the right or what?

sorry if these questions seem dumb....i just want to make sure i understand and have everything clear so i can work it out when the board is here tomorrow.....

thanx again rtw....i dont now why i didnt post this question sooner

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:34 pm

jonny5 wrote:now just so im clear...from what you are saying im guessing up and down means left and right, ya?

You can offset the entire grid by moving the joystick left/right or up/down.

The screen movement adapts to the orientation of the game.

You will understand it perfectly when you see it

rtw

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:42 pm

ok....so if i have shearing on the left side should i offset to the right?

i guess with this info i can fiddle around with it and see how the picture reacts...

i will make sure to take some pictures of before and after i fix it.....and what i did....

thanx a million rtw

Alien Soldier · Post by **Alien Soldier** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:27 am

I disconnected the ground of my cabs and tested my PCBs (both DDP and ESP) and I don't have any waver on the screen. It seems to be a compatibility problem with both your chassis. At this point there's no much you can other than trying a sync cleaner.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:14 am

its hardly even noticable.....im just anal about screens....you cant even see it in game

and a huge thanx to rtw!!! what you suggested for the SH3 issue worked a dream!!

thanx again buddy

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:19 am

jonny5 wrote:and a huge thanx to rtw!!! what you suggested for the SH3 issue worked a dream!!

thanx again buddy

You're welcome, glad to help!

rtw