Macross? Robotech? WTF???

mr_m0nks · Post by **mr_m0nks** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:01 am

Ok so I have been playing a couple of the Macross games and was getting kinda into it but after doing a little internet research I am just more confused.

If i want to start watching, where do i start? There have been umpteen series and the odd film too

Can anyone help me?

Daedalus · Post by **Daedalus** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:12 am

I'd watch either the original "Macross" or "Robotech". Macross was the first series, and Robotech was the first two series cut together with some plot changes for the English market.

Both are pretty good, IMO. But the shows and movies get worse as they get more recent.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:26 am

Macross Frontier was released last year and there is a fuckton of fanwank surrounding one of the characters (Klan Klan).

here is the important info from Wikipedia which suddenly makes all the fanwank make sense:

Due to a certain genetic anomaly, she appears her age as a fully-developed Meltrandi while macronized, but becomes physically a juvenile in her micronized form

I bet macross frontier's take on PMCs is also hilarious.

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:49 am

Macross/Robotech has absolutely all the fault for my sci-fi, spaceship, missile barrage, infinite ammo machineguns and mecha love. I was 6 when I saw it... God, I feel old now.

Well, Robotech is the Frankenstein atrocity that was spawned after pasting Macross, Southern Cross (or something like that) and an anime called Genesis Climber Mospeada (ah, Invid ftw). All because the US TV demanded 60+ eps but Macross only had 34 or so.

While I ended up watching Robotech like everyone else, I felt sad when the truth was revealed, especially due to the heavy changes and censorship applied to the series (needlessly to say the three series were really violent and Macross is quite brutal at times). Frankenstein or not, Robotech still achieved it's objective for me. There are also novels that continue the western re-interpretation of the story.

Going back to Japan, of all the Macross stuff I would recommend you the movie: Macross: Do You Remember Love?. A mega fucking masterpiece of the '80s I hold in high regard next to Transformers: The Movie and a couple more.

Just watch the opening sequence and you'll see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpnXSPaRyu4

Jeez, the whole damn battle is an ode to glory and it's as shmuppy as it gets.

Despite it has some excessive melodramatic moments, people might hate Minmei and whatnot, this thing is pure gold and the final moments are something still nobody has surpassed in terms of obscene scale/gigantic masses of cool mecha and battleships everywhere. The movie is even more violent than the series. I recall seeing someone being decapitated in the middle of the explosions, people get shot to pieces, blood everywhere as mechas explodes... The Quaedlun Rau powered assault armors fucking own (those human-shaped mechs that fly and release endless missile barrages and endless machinegun rape-fire)

The zentraedi begin talking in a fictional language as well. Extremely cool I would've loved to see this in the cinema.

Plus a 4k million enemy fleet (they even tell you the exact amount, such is the level of craziness and exaggeration: 4,795,122 ships) getting screwed all over by a pop song and a gigantic mecha has to be... interesting. Oh, and the final moment of the battle has to portray the most amazing mecha shooting ever. That valkyrie had guns and missiles even in the ass.

So, yes, you'll see references of Macross in the Ray Force series, Hyper Duel and many other shooters. Also Omega Boost was designed by the same dude that made the mecha designs (Shoji Kawamori) and man if Omega Boost doesn't own. I have yet to see a full 360º 3D shooting game with the pace of that thing. Some of the bullet barrages were so dense (well, in hard mode I mean) that it is my prime example of what danmaku in 3D would look like.

Ok, I'm exaggerating things a bit, sorry about that. I just can't help it...

Hope this mess of a post helped. Apologies for the length...

edit: By Daedalus comment and Ed Oscuro confirmation (urgh, fanwank, guess the above wall of text is full of fanwank...) it seems that the series has been increasingly getting 'pussified' (or just flat out gay). Cannot confirm this though so it's not necessarily the truth because I did not watch it yet. And fandom nowadays scares the hell out of me though the same could be said about me and my raving for the original series+movie.

If the new one has endless masses of missile barrages and mecha action non-stop with the added value of girls+boobs I will be quite happy. If it doesn't or the enemies are not over 3k million then I guess I'll be a bit disappointed.

mr_m0nks · Post by **mr_m0nks** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:22 am

so its worth tracking down the original series then? if its available

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:43 am

Observer wrote:edit: By Daedalus comment and Ed Oscuro confirmation (urgh, fanwank, guess the above wall of text is full of fanwank...) it seems that the series has been increasingly getting 'pussified' (or just flat out gay). Cannot confirm this though so it's not necessarily the truth because I did not watch it yet. And fandom nowadays scares the hell out of me though the same could be said about me and my raving for the original series+movie.

Yes, I put that word there to chastise you in particular (nevermind that I didn't really know who loves or doesn't love this series; and I myself just know it from a few minutes of Cartoon Network and also mostly H-doujins). You, yes YOU!

Anyway, it's not gay if the balls aren't touching. Remember!

(on the other hand, since I only know of fannishness surrounding one female character, it would be kinda hard to turn it gay, artistic license notwithstanding.)

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:44 am

mr_m0nks wrote:so its worth tracking down the original series then? if its available

Absolutely. And if that isn't available, then the movie. The movie!

And Omega Boost for the PSX. (NTSC-J though since the western release replaced the original rocking tune 'Shade' by Feeder with some generic Static-X song that didn't age well at all) I think GaijinPunch is selling a copy of the game for five bucks.

There is also a Macross game for PS2 that follows the storyline of the original series and is like Omega Boost although a bit more rough in the controls and not as breath taking for some reasons. Can't remember the name. Avoid Robotech: Battlecry. I've only read and heard poison about it. However, if you find it super cheap, maybe taking a look at it wouldn't hurt.

There is one based on Mospeada/Robotech 3rd Generation and it's a fps-like thing. Not sure if it's good either.

edit:

Yes, I put that word there to chastise you in particular (nevermind that I didn't really know who loves or doesn't love this series; and I myself just know it from a few minutes of Cartoon Network and also mostly H-doujins). You, yes YOU!

Anyway, it's not gay if the balls aren't touching. Remember! Razz

hahahaha, quote of the day!

I guess I'll watch the series then. Or try to. Hope it's subbed!

I forgot one thing: Macross Plus. Didn't watch it myself but people hold it in high regard. I should really watch that one because mind-controlled valkyrie sounds interesting.

edit: heh, you edited the post and added more =P Won't edit the quote but the whole thing is gold. As I said before, I tend to exaggerate a lot, which is a double edged sword because then things get 'serious business' and, sometimes, I'm not being serious at all (though it's hard to express it in text). I should've added the whole text in small font is just plain silliness.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:46 am

A serious question then - how do the Macross games (aside from the MAME ones) rank aside the Gundam titles (nevermind the hex strategy stuff)?

Years ago I IRCed with a kid who was like OMG DIS ARE BEST GAME EVR, on some sort of third person action Gundam titles. I was like OKAY I DON'T HAVE A PS2 but I value your opinion.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:13 am

Observer wrote:I forgot one thing: Macross Plus. Didn't watch it myself but people hold it in high regard.

I think Plus is where Macross peaked. (Look for the final cut "movie version" I feel has improved pacing.) Macross Zero is also quite good.

GrimoreLibrarian · Post by **GrimoreLibrarian** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:03 am

Wasn't there Robotech novels? I think my dad gave me a couple of them a while ago, but I don't know where they are right now.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:44 am

Watch the original show, then be SURE to watch the movie that sums up the show "Macross, Do you remember love". I can not stress how you must see the movie also, I loved it enough to get the laser disc signed by shoji kawamori and then rebuy the special edition on DVD ect.

Then I'd move on to macross pluss. I'd watch the original version over the movie. Watch the movie later on if you want to see the different ending. The movie cuts alot out though.

If you need more afterwards go for zero, 2, then frontier. I hated macross 7 even though I'm a big ol' macross fan.

As far as games go, the super famicom shooter is good, the 2 PC engine games are all right also. My favorite is the PS2 game that was developed by AM2.... it's really great if your a macross fan ect.

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:13 pm

GrimoreLibrarian wrote:Wasn't there Robotech novels? I think my dad gave me a couple of them a while ago, but I don't know where they are right now.

Yup. The novels do a re-telling and then continue where the series end. They are written by Jack McKinney and, apparently are quite good ol' scifi of the 80s. Maybe they are still available through Amazon or other online bookstores?

Oh, there is also a 2CD stg for Saturn. I recall it was a hori but I'm not sure it was all that good. Macross Plus also got a version for Dreamcast if I'm not wrong, not too good either.

There is also a SNES Macross game that is supposedly the "best shit evah". I have no idea about this one. Gotta try it.

Strider77> Thanks for the suggestions. Guess I'll start with Macross Plus. I forgot to add I have Macross 7 Trash manga too. Jeez, I totally forgot of that one. It's ok though.

Lawfer · Post by **Lawfer** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:58 pm

Macross is just... Well Macros Plus and Macross Zero are pretty good, even Super Dimension Fortress Macross is not all that bad, but the rest is just crap.

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:46 pm

Macross Plus is awesome. You'd appreciate it a little more if you've seen the first part of Robotech or the Macross TV series, but it should still be great on it own. There are actually two versions of Plus, a 4-episode OAV and a movie that combines some OAV footage and some new footage. I recommend the OAV version.

As for whether to watch the Robotech or Macross version of the original series, it's up to you. I saw Robotech first and obviously prefer it, so I can't give you an unbiased opinion. There was very little censorship, though, none of that "those ships are piloted by ROBOTZ" that so many 80's toons had. Main characters still die, and the pivotal moment where BILLIONS of people are massacred isn't covered up at all.

I really enjoyed the Robotech novels back in the day. The tons of sci-fi novels out there based on movies/games/TV shows may never be considered great literature, but I though Robotech was the cream of the crop. It's nice to have a little more mature take on things, since even the original Japanese series was made in mind that boys would be watching it. Books 1-6 adapt the Macross portion of the series and are probably the best. The ominibus collections were reprinted not long ago.

And I have to agree with the recomnedations of Omega Boost (3D RayForce) and Macross VF-X 2. The plans for an localized release of that game fell through, but I remember that PCE fan posted a while back that a very limited number of English version were given out in Japan as part of a contest or something. I'd like to get my hand on one of those, or even just the disk image.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:56 pm

I think Macross II was the definitive Macross. Unfortunately, nobody agrees with me.

As for games, Masaya's PCE SRPG Eternal Love Song is great, Zamuse's SFC shooter Scrambled Valkyrie is hot, and Sega's 3D shooter is acceptable. Everything else (FC, PCE, DC, WS, computers, etc.) is for fans only.