Vertically scrolling 'R-Type' games...

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:34 pm

... that make use of the Force concept? Trying to make a list:

- Dragon Blaze: Dragon shoot...

- Raiden III: Double Mode...

- Hellsinker: Haven't played this but Observer mentioned it in another thread when I mused about this topic...

Anything else?

GrimoreLibrarian · Post by **GrimoreLibrarian** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:43 pm

EDIT: Never mind, you're looking for vertical games. Ignore this then.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:02 pm

varth maybe?

not sure what you define as "force concept" since raiden 3 is in there?

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:26 pm

sven666 wrote:varth maybe?

not sure what you define as "force concept" since raiden 3 is in there?

I'll try to loosely define it:

"Force concept" being a secondary body (pod/ ship/ avatar etc.) that you can control relative positioning from a main body. They can be positioned locally or remotely on-screen and this control maybe partial or full. Both bodies complement each other defensively/ offensively...

Hope that helps?

EDIT:

I'd say Varth doesn't qualify because the pods are positioned locally, relative to the main ship...

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:47 pm

Genetos 5th evolution level features two options you can position in front or on the sides of your ship and reflect bullets. (you can tap quickly to create some sort of blocking effect)

Ether Vapor widespread firing mode lets you position the options in different angles but they are positioned locally. Same deal with Genetos' options.

This thing might fit too since your two options enhance your ship powers or let you do charging attacks (and they fly in circles around certain areas, dealing damage): http://enhancedgame.hp.infoseek.co.jp/game/trpgame.html

Oh, yeah, Lovecraft-named bosses for glory. You don't have direct control over your options but you can let them break havoc when you fill the bars.

Screen of HellSinker with Kagura's "Ecliptic Chariot - External Gunner" firing mode (your "force"/ship option is the black thing at the top of the screen next to the weird green hexagons and the trippy LSD-induced background. Kagura is the flying armour in the middle with those eyes/symbols surrounding it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/Wyrm/he34.png

In fact, I think HellSinker is what you might be looking for. I'll show ya Deadliar's and Fossil Maiden's options in a moment.

edit: Fossil Maiden's "Sanagimaru Mistertoe" (whatever the hell that is, it's a little fairy of doom, the small thing that deploys a blue circle, you can leave it in its position, she will automatically fire at EVERYTHING that enters the area; you can move around freely in the meantime)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/Wyrm/he35.png

Here is the little fairy attached to Fossil Maiden and covering her from two sides:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/ ... -40-75.jpg

Deadliar's "relative position" firing mode lets you fire his fairies to anywhere in the screen and you can re-position it till it comes back. Fixed will send them only to where you want and call them back. The developer added a soft trail of light to indicate where in the middle of this hellish game your poor option is.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/ ... -19-57.jpg

Also, RefRain C74 demo lets you control the options surrounding your ship. The little pilot girl with the plushie has Fossil Maiden-like options that will attack everything within their circle. Mirya's Must Viper options will lock on particular enemies and will follow you like Gradius options. Amazing shit right there from the creators of the almighty Samidare. Can't wait for the full release of this thing.

Videos about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSCngzb3a4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoD2gT7f_5I

Punchi punchi punchi punchi.

Hope this helps.

edit2: Under Defeat has a bar that once it is filled will let you temporarily cast an option that will fire at the enemy and move around. No direct control over it but certainly helps because this game is freaking hard.

Obviously, we also have the Guwange spirits you can summon to help you clean the screen and destroy everything and Shikigami No Shiro, which has the shikigamis (duh) that you can summon to aid you in your pew pew quest.

edit: post edited to make the thread load faster

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:19 am

@ Observer: Nice post.

Of the games I've played: Under Defeat, Guwange and the Shikigami no Shiro series would loosely qualify.

Of the others: HellSinker does indeed sound like what I was looking for; Ether Vapors a hori though and the others with the 'circular' type options seem too far removed...

EDIT:

I think the 'circular' option types aren't really focused bodies like the Force...

Keep them coming though!

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:40 am

Just as planned. Another conversion.

Don't let the crazy interface and overall chaos put you off. Once you get past the fact that continuing is not allowed (you only get one continue in this game and it only leads to a bad end) and that pretty much each character is unique and has a lot of possibilities... It's a steep curve but once you get the hang there is no turning back.

Ether Vapor is not a hori but some kind of hybrid, like Philosoma or Salamander. Stage 1 begins as a vertical shooter, stage 2 goes hori, stage 3 mixes both and so on. It even has Panzer Dragoon-like moments with lock-on madness against Macross missile massacres.

Uh, Trigger Heart Exelica lets you grab enemies and throw them at will to blow up shit... I'm sure that doesn't qualify but hell if it isn't fun.

Yeah, I freaking love HellSinker.

You might wanna try Radio Zonde, the precursor. There is one ship that has an independently moving reticle you can move to destroy enemies across the screen. It's appears to be the most powerful ship in the game but it's really complicated to control both the reticle and your ship at the same time. That might also be something worth checking.

edit: ship is called "Gophn" (wait, it's actually a person, there are two ships too, you can select it if you press left or right up there where it says "Yoxhola" and the other character's name)

Screen:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/ ... -26-59.jpg

You have a basic green reticle and a red one. They also switch to yellow. One stays still and fires at something while the other can be moved independently. I cannot for sure figure out how the hell to control this ship but whatever gets caught in your fire goes down in a second. Such is the price of having two powerful and independent options plus your character.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:05 am

^^ Cool, Radio Zonde sounds neat too...

I couldn't get into THE for some reason; it doesn't qualify but I might revisit it someday...

Re. Ether Vapor: All the footage I've seen reminded me of TF V... If it's a hybrid like Salamander, then that looks like something I might look into too...

Out of all the vertical shoot-em-ups made, there are surprisingly very few that fit into what I was looking for...

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:16 am

Does MUSHA count? It's got some heavy option manipulation

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:57 am

Image Fight has options where you can manipulate the firing direction.

also has a few special powerups that position themselves in front of your ship just like a force device..

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:49 am

Scorpio (Amiga) is said to be a vertical clone of R-Type. I've never played it myself.

http://hol.abime.net/1844

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:16 pm

I'm looking for some kind of local and remote positioning of an 'option' on-screen...

Image Fight is more local I'd say; MUSHA kinda loosely qualifies with its little homing mecha dudes. Ideally you should have some sort of control (partial/ full), so that you can still independently control your main ships position relative to the option...

E.g. In Dragon Blaze you can fire your dragon to a certain position and still have control of your rider so that he/ she can position themselves locally or remotely relative to the dragons position; or in Raiden III Double Mode, you can basically do the same with both ships etc...

In R-Type, the attached Force would be a local position, and it detached at the other end of the screen would be a remote position...

PooshhMao · Post by **PooshhMao** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:46 pm

Xenon II had a force-ish and remotely controllable orb (called the Electroball I believe?), and Tyrian had a couple too (among them the Microsol Frontblaster)

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:05 pm

SOLDIER BLADE - the little mech that acts as option & can absorb bullets

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:51 pm

Just want to point out what I'm *not* looking for is dependency between positioning of the 'options' (secondary body) and main body... And by positioning, I don't mean firing direction, but just a position on-screen.

E.g. I'm not looking for a vertical form of Gradius' options, like in Mushihimesame, i.e. changing position of your main ship directly affects a change in position of your options on-screen. This is an example of what I'm *not* looking for. I'm looking for some kind of independence when it comes to positioning between 'options' and 'main ship'...

I haven't played Tyrian; Xenon II and Soldier Blade I haven't played in years, so I can't recollect.

Key properties I'm looking for:

- Local and remote positioning with independence.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:59 am

Lots of planes in the strikers series have options (or weapons) you place in certain places, launch, and stuff like that, and even feel pretty r-typish in the execution, but they're not permanent, so I guess they don't count. Good half example though, eh?

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:37 pm

^^ Yep, that's a good shout with the Strikers series; they'd loosely qualify... I can see how Dragon Blaze followed. Also, in Gunbird 2, the 'flying carpet dude' (Hei-?) would qualify, he has the dragon shoot style option; a prelude to DB...

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:03 pm

Raiden Fighters sorta kinda, except those just stand still or move along a set pattern. Surprised it took so long for somebody to mention Image Fight, that one's first party even.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:35 pm

^^ Yeah, Raiden Fighters kinda loosley qualifies... I can see that as a prelude to Double Mode in Raiden III too...

I'm looking for remote positioning, which is why Image Fight didn't really qualify (even though it does feel like an R-Type game made vertical)...

Zaarock · Post by **Zaarock** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:29 pm

grid seeker?

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:25 pm

Nexzr has some sort of option (if you choose a certain powerup) that acts like a Force unit, going off on its own to pitbull the enemies with point blank fire.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:44 pm

^^ That sounds like it'll qualify. I played a few credits a while ago, though I didn't pick that particular option...

Zaarock wrote:grid seeker?

This is also on the Taito Legends 2 disc? This happened to be in my PS2 last night, so I gave it a few credits for the first time; messed about with the options and was about to declare them "local"... then a freakin' helicopter started following my plane around?

I must've picked a special power up or something. After trying to shoot it down, then realising it was actually on my side, its movement was loosely dependent on my main ship; so it kinda still doesn't qualify...

toaplan_shmupfan · Post by **toaplan_shmupfan** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:22 pm

dpful wrote:Does MUSHA count? It's got some heavy option manipulation

I think it should count.

To start with, there are not only several option positions local to the ship (e.g, Forward, 3-way, Back), but there is also a Free mode that causes the options to move away from the ship and chase down enemies.

Now add to that--changing the ship's speed to a faster setting makes the options more independent in that they will actually lag behind the main ship and become independent options in their selected formation setting.

Gekirindan's Type B ship also has the independent option control (relative to the main ship but lagging behind so as to become independent) as one of its weapons change options, upon taking one of the "C" items.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:44 pm

^^ I'm agreeing with MUSHA, but only when a particular option type/ formation is used; I noted them earlier as its "little homing mecha dudes", which correlate to the "Free mode" you mention.

I tried Gekirindens Type B ship, and changed option formation with the "C" item, but I get a vertical form of Gradius' options, i.e. moving my main ship directly affects movement of my options; therefore they are dependent on each other and not "independent" for local and remote positioning...

I think we maybe using the term "independent" differently?

toaplan_shmupfan · Post by **toaplan_shmupfan** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:17 pm

Okay, now I get it...

Elemental Master for the Sega Genesis would probably qualify (although after a certain point in the game the helper goes away to add a more powerful weapon). The helper object is obtained starting with the second stage of play and remains until the 5th stage of play is completed.

Local positioning: the helper object hovers very close to the main character when not attacking enemies.

Remote positioning: the helper object flies directly at enemies to damage or destroy them.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:25 am

Lethal Thunder?

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:53 am

Pink Sweets (rose hips)

bkk · Post by **bkk** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:44 pm

Batrider. Although your options return to your ship after a few seconds.